EASY adjustment for a 4 month old touchy baby? Unsettled 5 - 7.30pmish help!!

[Jiinx]

I agree...I ended up just letting her wake when she was naturally hungry as well..I couldn't wait until 10:30-11pm sometimes and I didn't like disrupting her.

Sorry your days have been all over the place I hope today has been better.

[anthsmum]

So much for my theory!

Last night he woke at 10.30 for the dreamfeed after going to bed at 7 - then woke at 4am. But like I said because I've been out and about a bit lately a bit of OT could be disrupting things!

Today we've been home all day though and so far our EASY looks like this -

Wake & E - 8.30am

(let him sleep in a little as he was very restless from 4am onwards and clearly wanted more sleep when I went in there at 7 - its been really hot here the last couple of days so the house is quite hot and uncomfortable. He's in a light sleeping bag with only nappy underneath but i still wrap just his arms and then tuck the sheet under his body as he doesn't sleep with his arms free yet. So with the heat he was more than likely getting hot and kept busting his arms free and waking himself up!)

S 10am - 12.15

E - 12.30
S - 2pm - (still asleep now at 4.10pm)

Then usually because tonight we're eating at my mums, he'll eat at 4.30 be awake till around 6 then sleep in the car for about 30mins on the way there. then..

wake 6.30pm
E around 7.15pm / 7.30pm
S around 7.45 / 8pm.

We then let him sleep there till around 10.30 when if he hasn't woken already we try to get him into the car without waking (but usually does) and then do the dreamfeed at home around 11pm then straight back to bed.


We do this a couple of times a week when we eat at my mum and one night at my inlaws... I must admit I hate to wake him when its time to leave but would this disturb him so much doing it a couple of times a week that it could create bad sleep habits... such as where he wakes at 10.30-11 all the time even when we're home...? Does this sort of thing throw out a babys routine so much that it prevents them from sleeping through the night sooner ?

Friends I know that have babies that have slept through the night from a very young age were all really strict when it came to their routine and feeding at the exact same time etc etc...  Just wondering if my 'not so strict' approach is the reason he generally still wakes for a feed...

thanks again for all your input and hope all is well on your side of the world

[Jiinx]

Hi there!
 I think she's too old for the catnap, TBH. I think your routine looked great..I hate to say this, but I think she just needs 3 hours of sleep now..maybe 3.5 - 4 hours MAX. Anything more will definitely interfere with her nights.

 I've only had a "strict" routine. lol..I've made so many people upset with me (husband, in laws, friends etc etc) for my lack of flexibility. However, she does SO well on a routine and I know what to expect. I'm not at all saying that this is what you need to do! However, some consistency is good for a baby. When you do go to your inlaws and your parents, I would keep her up in the car on the way there and put her to sleep there. I've done that a few times where I would take her somewhere, start her bedtime routine when we get there and have her down by 7:45. she would wake upon leaving, stay awake all the way home but I would transfer her back into her crib and she would go back to sleep until morning. I wouldn't let her sleep in though, and just start the day at our normal time.

Does that help? Just some perspective.. Again, you're doing a great job. We just need to see what A time she really is on..and I don't think it's less than 2 hours. Even though she is sleeping well... Which is great.

How was your night though?

[anthsmum]

Hi,

hmm night evening up not being that great to be honest... mostly my fault though because we were out etc. He ended up sleeping till 4.30 like I thought and then ate and we left the house at 6.10pm. He slept 20 minutes in the car on the way there and then was awake from 6.30 till 9.15!!

Gave him his bedtime bottle at 7.15 and went to put him to bed at 7.45 but he just screamed and I couldn't even get him to sleep by walking him around a bit... he dosed on and off in my arms till finally after around half an hour of this I just went back out to the family and told DH it was probably best we went home and put him to bed as by this stage is was already 8.30pm...

By the time we actually left and got home it was around 9.15pm before he got to bed after having a quick top up. And he was out like a light, didn't fight me at all just went straight to sleep. (and he was awake the whole car ride home too).

Didn't wake  him for the dreamfeed at all just let him sleep and he woke ate 2am, ate, then straight back to bed and fell asleep within a couple of minutes then awake for the day at just after 7am this morning (and happy to be awake considering the late bedtime).

So far today looks like -

Wake approx 7-7.10am
E - 7.30
S - 9 - (its only 9.15am now, just put him down)

He was winging to go to bed from around 8.45am but I tried to push him out a little longer.

Thanks for your thoughts regarding his day sleep, just wondering though, how will I get him through the day on only 2 naps?? If he had a catnap during the day and then a big afternoon sleep it would probably work better but at the moment he's having his 2 big naps and then from 3.30 or 4.30pm (depending on when he's due to eat) only having 30-45 minutes to get him through to bedtime.

If we cut out the catnap he'd never last a 7am-7pm day... even if he was up for 2 hours at a time... I don't think anyway?? Any thoughts on how I structure his day??

thanks again!!!

[anthsmum]

Hi, thanks for getting back so quickly.

Just as an update his day has been this so far

Wake 7
E - 7.30
S - 9 - 10.15 (woke at 9.30 crying but went back to sleep after giving him the paci.)

Wake 10.15
E - 11
S - 12
(started to get really fussy from after 1.5hr again - see what kind of nap we get here I guess.)


I'm thinking the 2 nap day is a little out of his league at the moment.. he's 6 months old next week but was 6 weeks prem so developmentally he is really only 4.5months.. does that explain his A time a little??

I may need to stick with the 3 naps for now but instead of putting him down after only 1.5hours when he's fussy and letting him have the 2-2.5 hour naps,  I'll keep trying to stretch out his A time so those naps are shorter.

Its crazy, one week I'm trying to get him to take longer naps and the next week more A time with shorter naps! If I keep this up by the time he's 1 we are going to know each other really well

Will have a look at those links again you supplied and see what else I can figure out...

Thanks once again!!

[Jiinx]

oh can you forgive me? I think I'm needing sleep bc I forgot your lo was tiny still!
Of COURSE he needs three naps. I'm so sorry. So yes, he does need three naps. His second A is a tad short...you may want to nudge that a little bit

His A times are fine. His naps are fine. So two naps of 1.5 - 2 hours after 2 hr - 2 hr 25 mins (if he's approaching 5 months). The first A can be short, but remember don't make it too short. A catnap is definitely needed but a short A time is needed right after that.

Sorry I feel a bit daft.

[anthsmum]

Hi, didn't think i'd hear back from you so soon - it's late over on that side of the world!

Not a problem about the 2/3 nap thing.. it made me really think about everything so that can't be a bad thing because while his naps have been great during the day you are probably right that he's getting too much day sleep... especially with 2 x 2 - 2.25 hour naps plus the catnap. Will take the next few days like i said just trying to extend the A time a little as really he's still only comfortable with 1.5hr...  Think i'll try 1.5hr-1.45hr- for the first A time and then maybe 1.45-2hr for the second and a short A time after the catnap and see how we go over a few days...

If he only has around 30min catnap do you think 1hr-1.5hr is appropriate after that or too long? Either way I usually try and feed 3hr after his late afternoon feed and not earlier otherwise he's really not that hungry.

thankyou so much for all your help, your advice has made such a big difference since I first wrote this post - we went from a 3hr easy to a 4hr almost immediately and he's a much happier boy!

 

[Jiinx]

hey sweetie
 Glad you're seeing progress!

 30 min nap...probably 1 hour is the max for him. He definitely has more wiggle room for his A times during the day so if you want to add 5 minutes or so to that...remember to choose just one A and gradually increase it over the week

hope you had a good night! If he keeps waking happy...it may be that he's getting enough sleep but needs more A time to compensate for those lovely naps.

[anthsmum]

Hi Sarah,

Long time no chat.. hope all has been well.

Just wondering if you could have a look at my EASY give me your thoughts... Things have been good since I put my 4.5mo on the 4 hr easy but am wondering now if he's getting too much day sleep even though he REALLY struggles to stay up longer than 1.5hrs. As mentioned in earlier posts I've been working on extending the A times though... generally the morning A time is hard to get past 1.5hrs...he starts getting really fussy not long after an hour has passed sometimes! Generally I push him to atleast a 1.5hrs and if he isn't too fussy definitely to 1.75 hours. Usually even if he goes down a little overtired at this nap I can get him back to sleep if he wakes just with the paci so its not too bad.

Second nap of the day is great too so long as I get him down before the 2 hr mark. I stretch him definitely to 1.75 hours but even then sometimes he goes down overtired and will then only sleep max an hour rather than 2.

Since stretching out the A time though the last couple of days I've noticed he wakes after 40 minutes (which I'm thinking is UT) and then chatting for a good 20 minutes or so, then quiet again... and sometimes wakes up a second time and chats for a little and then back to sleep again usually right up until his next due feed. Because of the waking up and chatting I've been leaving him in there right up until the feed which is sometimes up to 3 hours.

Just wondering is this just him transitioning because his A times still aren't long enough?? Yesterday's EASY looked like this...

E 8am (had to wake him)
S 9.35 till 12 (woke a couple of times chatting, then fell back to sleep till next feed)

E 12
E 1 (solids - small amount of apple)
S 1.45 till 4.30 (was awake for atleast an hour during this nap chatting, once cried but put the paci in and drifted back off to sleep

E 4.30
S 6.15 till 6.35 (in car - had to go out)

E 7.45 (was overtired by this point)
S 8.15

Went to bed easily, didn't even stir until he cried out at 4.30am. Chatted for a little (even squealing with joy) then seemed to go back to sleep but then at 5.10am I heard him again so decided to go in and feed him seeing as the last week or so I haven't been giving him the dream feed.

First few nights without the dreamfeed he would go to around 1 or 2am but the last 2 nights since he's been having some apple for lunch he's woken more 4.30-5am.

After feeding him around this time the last 2 mornings I put him down WIDE awake and takes a bit to fall asleep again and then he's up at 6.30am crying, but not ready to get up. Have given paci both mornings a couple of times... then around 8 I get him up even though he doesn't look happy to be awake in the morning like he normally does. Both mornings he's pooed though so this is most probably why he's been restless and maybe not waking up as refreshed?

Sorry for the long post again - I guess my question is, is it ok to leave him in bed for up to 3 hours with him waking and chatting throughout or do you think he's getting too much day sleep still and is keeping him up around the 5am mark, causing him to wake up grumpy...?

Love to hear your thoughts

[Jiinx]

Hi there!
 Glad things are going better

Hmm..so i'm just going to agree with what you already know Yes, he is under with his A times and you would know that from him waking and chatting. Especially if he wakes, goes to sleep for 20 minutes and then chats again. He's just getting way way too little. He's 5 months...should be at 2 hour and 2 hours and 25 or so..but since he's adjusted and we really don't know if he can do MORE..I would imagine that he should be at the very least at 2 hours plus.

I wouldn't keep him in his crib for 3 hours. You don't know how much of the time spent in there is actual sleep. He's probably getting too rested for the day - which may be interfering with his nights causing his restless mornings...thus causing him to be OT and not lasting his full A time, ykwim? And the cycle just perpetuates from there..

What do you think? Since he's touchy..really, it's a gradual gradual increase. Pick an A time and just keep going ..may take a couple of week.