Another Mom Suffering from 7.5mo LO with short naps & inconsolable EW

[JuJuLuv]

Not really sure if this is the right place to post, but I figured it’s a good place to start

My 7.5 month old DS is exhibiting new behaviors that I have no idea how to read which is maddening and exhausting. He’s been on EASY since he was 10 weeks old. Currently he is on 4 hour EASY and his A times are around 3 hrs. He started solids around 6 months and is a champion eater. He seems to like everything and a lot of it. He, for the most part, is a terrible napper – I’m lucky to get over an hour per nap. Many times in a day, I get 3 naps that are 30 mins each. In addition, he was doing EW around the 5am hour. I was working on eliminating those (with some awesome help from a few ladies here) and then he got sick   After a few back to back colds subsided, we went away and spent 5 days in a different state with my parents. This, of course, seemed to throw him off a bit. While we were there, he started waking up between 12am-2:30am and instead of a quick replug or sh/pat, he was awake for an hour +. I tried my hardest not to feed as I don’t want to create any bad habits, but this seemed to be the only thing that would get him back to sleep. As he’s waking at these crazy hours, the EW at 5am wasn't happening – he was waking between 6:15-7:15. We’ve been home for 3 days and this same NW has been happening the past 3 nights. When he’s been sick or overtired, he’s prone to getting night terrors (which is absolutely awful) so sometimes it’s hard to tell if he’s truly awake, in pain, frustrated he’s awake, etc. To add to the mix, I’ve been slowly trying to eliminate the DF. Initially they were at 10:30 and now we’re at 9:30 but recently we don’t even make it until then – he wakes up btwn 9-9:20 and is upset until we feed. I can’t believe he’s truly hungry as he eats well, both solids and BF all throughout the day. But, when he does nurse, he seems to take a pretty decent feed.

So, could this be a growth spurt? They don’t typically last a week +, right? I know he must be teething because he’s drooling like crazy – but has been for the past month or so. He has 2 teeth that have broken through on the bottom but I don’t see or feel anything up top (though the teeth are likely making their way down).  Could it be an upset stomach from foods he’s eaten and the breast is the only soothing element for him? I have no idea what to do to break this new not fun habit.

Just tonight, he went down to bed at 6:45ish and woke at 8:15. Waking shortly after BT isn’t really all that uncommon, he wakes a lot around the 40 mins mark after BT but typically we can replug or place him on his side and put our hand on his back and he’ll resettle and go back to sleep with relatively little hassle. Tonight, he was inconsolable (like he is during his night terror episodes but he was awake this go around). We ended up giving him some Tylenol (which we do more than I would like these days) and he would quiet down for a minute or two and then start back up – big tears and screams/cries. He was clearly exhausted and would lay his head on my chest but then pop the dummy out and start wailing all over. This went on for about 45 mins and then I figured, it was so close to when I would DF that I just fed him. He went fast asleep. I feel like the breast is becoming a prop but he won’t settle without it. What can I do to get out of this crazy cycle?

The other new behavior – when we go to him when he does wake, he typically would welcome the dummy or us putting him back on his side or tummy. Recently, he’s been pushing us away and remaining on his back. Not really sure how to comfort him when he doesn’t seem to want to be touched or handled. It’s really disheartening and frustrating – esp at 2am when all the things that used to work aren’t working at all….

Todays EASY

NW @ 2:30 – 3:50
Finally gave in at 3:30 and fed him – he went back to sleep
Woke at 7:05
E: 7:15 – 7:20 (BF)
A: 7:20 – 8:15
E: 8:15 – 8:30 (Solids)
A: 8:30 – 9:30
S: 9:40  - 10:10
A: 10:10 – 11:10
E: 11:10 – 11:15 (BF)
A: 11:15 – 12
E: 12 – 12:15 (Solids)
A: 12:15 – 1:10
S: 1:15 – 1:45
A: 1:45 – 2:50
E: 2:50 – 2:55 (BF)
A: 2:55 – 3:40
S: 3:50 – 4:15
A: 4:15 – 4:30
E: 4:30 – 4:45 (Solids)
A: 4:45 – 6:30
E: 6:30 – 6:35 (BF)
S: 6:45 (woke at 8:15 and inconsolable until fed at 9:05) – now 10pm and still sleeping

As you’ll notice he’s a very efficient BFer. Used to be a 10 min eater and now he’s right around 5 mins. This started after solids were introduced. Wondering if he’s slowing weaning himself. Also, I’ve tried doing shorter A times after a short nap and that never worked well – before his last nap today, I actually did shorten his A time to 2 hours and I was surprised he actually went back down, but only for 25 mins Many times, we struggle for 40 mins to go down for a nap after a short A time so that doesn’t work too well. He seems to be in an OT cycle maybe? And how to handle the NW when he’s up for over an hour and won’t settle without the boob? Argh! I feel like we’ve moved back to infancy where he was up multiple times a night because he had to feed. At this point, he’s 21 lbs and plenty healthy – he “should” be able to make it all night.

Any ideas? Thoughts? I’m getting desparate – I’m beyond exhausted….and I can’t really nap when he does b/c his naps are so short! I can’t seem to console him recently and I can’t let him CIO either. What can I do?!?!

[Jiinx]

Hi there!
Whew, you have a lot going on! let's try to tackle some of the situations you've brought up:

Breastfeeding
So at that age, some babies can sleep through the night without a feed. At around 7 months, the dreamfeed is usually weaned. I remember my lo woke up at night for a week during 7-7.5 month, which I think was a growth spurt.

I suspect the NWs are due to OT, which I'm sure you've mostly deduced. He wakes but cannot go back to sleep and uses your breast for comfort. This leads to...

Props
So your breast is most likely a prop. Does he have a lovey?
I think you'll need to some Pick up Pick Down to sleep train him to go back to sleep by himself...more on that later.

Let's talk about your EASY.

Eating
Is he lactose intolerant? Did or does he have reflux? Could anything be bothering his tummy?

Activity
Activity levels for a 7.5 is approaching 3 hours. Considering he may be OT from his night time sleep, I would be inclined to put him down between 2 hours and 30 minutes and 2 hours and 45 minutes. What do you think? The 30 minutes just sound like OT..and then his A times are really long after his first nap. If he is short napping then you really do need to cut his A times in half almost...30 minutes is not enough to last 2 hours...

Sleep
So he probably needs to be re taught how to sleep...

* http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85498.0

I don't want to overwhelm you...I'll wait for your answers and see what you think

Sarah

[Chicane]

NOTE: Jiinx posted just as I finished writing my post...but thought I would still post mine anyway...

hey JuJu

sending you hugs love.

Yep, sounds like an OT cycle for sure. I think you should try doing early BT for a few days or even a week to try and combat the OT monster. So get him down between 6-630pm.

Check out the samples here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164030.0

How long has he been on the 3 hr A time? Could 3 hrs be too long for him? What does your gut tell you about shortening that to 2.45 or there abouts?

The other things that could be going on are developmental. He could be suffering from separation anxiety which is very very common at this age. Check out this info. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65193.0
He has just realised that he is separate to you and needs extra reassurance. It will pass.

The other thing I am wondering about is hunger. You say he's big and taken to solids really well. Perhaps you could start to introduce morning and afternoon snack? In a sense you tank him up on solids before bed. I used to and still often bulk out my son's after dinner yoghurt with baby rice.

Finally, perhaps its time to move to 2 naps...slowly obviously, but I think he's gearing up for that. What do you think? When you start to drop the CN you compensate for a while with an early bed time. We did early BT for months and months till DS was able to handle it.

let me know what you think

xo

[JuJuLuv]

Thanks ladies, your insight is very much appreciated.

After I posted, that following morning was terrible – another 1.5-2 hr NW at 1:40am. My DH took it upon himself to tough it out and there was a battle of wills – my hubby won,  Gabe didn’t get fed and he finally went back to sleep at 3:45am. However, the following night (last night) he slept really well. Went down at 6:30 and didn’t wake for his DF – he fed at 9:30 and then didn’t wake again until 6:40am this morning! Both my hubby and I woke at 4 and were convinced he had stopped breathing or something – so much so he went in just to be sure….

He had a 35 min morning nap but then did 1hr 50 min afternoon nap – which is so uncharacteristic. I could get used to this As today is T-giving, we were over at family from 4-7:15 so unfortunately, he wasn’t able to get put down until 7:45. Made for a really long A time… be interesting to see how tonight goes as a result.

To answer some of the questions from Sarah:

-   I’m in the process of weaning the DF. In the early days we were DFing at 10:30, I started widdling down at 15 mins increments and we’re now at 9:30. I plan to do that for another day or 2 and then move to 9:15 and so on. As he tends to go down around 6:30 for BT, I’m thinking I can all together stop when we get to 8:30??

Props
-   Yes, he does have a lovey. He likes to rub it on his face when I put him down for naps or during his last feed before BT. He isn’t totally attached to it but seems to like it enough. He still has a paci for naps and BT and from what I’ve read, pick up/put down isn’t effective with a prop – we’re not quite ready to take that on yet (eliminating it that is)

Eating
-   We’ve had a few issues from the get go. He had an allergy or intolerance to something I was eating (found microscopic blood in his stool around 3months) so I’ve been on an elimination diet (no dairy, no soy, no eggs, no shellfish, no chocolate, no nuts, no red meat, no whole wheat) since then. Tried hypoallergenic formula but he wouldn’t eat it. So far, we haven’t had any issues with foods he’s been directly eating which is great. He did also suffer from reflux (slept on a wedge early on and was on medication) but around 4 months got off the meds and has been doing much better. I’ve been watching for any kind of rash or hives but haven’t found any issues so don’t think he’s had any allergic reactions to any foods. As for an upset tummy, really hard to tell….

Activity
-   Initially I think he was having too little A time and then from advice on here, we bumped it up to the 3 hour mark. I could try tailoring it back 15-20 mins and see how that goes. As I mentioned before, I’ve tried to do a short A after a 30 min nap and more times than not, he’ll fight me for 40 mins before actually going to sleep (which would likely be the time I would’ve normally put him down at the 3 hour mark). However, today, just before his great nap, his A time was about 2hr 40min. Definitely worth a shot to continue this for a week or so.

Sleep
-   I’ll definitely read through the sleep thread you sent. We did try pick up/put down for a few nights (a few months ago) which seemed to be effective but then read it was a no no while using a paci. During the day, for the most part, he goes down pretty well for naps – he just doesn’t sleep all that long. Night time, it isn’t too hard to get him down either – he just seems to wake a few times but most times for a replug or quick resettle. It’s just the past week that has been really painful.
-   

Great to hear from you again Dani! Thanks for chiming in. A few comments to your feedback:

-   For the most part, because his naps are so short, we do try to do fairly early BT between 6-6:30. I try my best not to have an excessively long A time at the end of the day. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t depending on if we’ve had 2 or 3 naps that day.
-   He’s only been on the 3 hr A time for maybe 3-4 weeks and when he had his colds, those were shortened a bit in hopes of expediting the healing process. I’ll try adjusting the A times to be a bit shy of 3 hours and see how we do.
-   Interesting idea on separation anxiety – but if that were the case, wouldn’t he be thrilled to see us when we came in the room rather than pushing us away? I also wonder if what was going on was due to us being in a different environment and then readjusting to being back home. We’ll see how tonight goes…
-   As for food, I feel like he’s eating all the time, I can’t imagine adding more foods in as well! Also, he’s not old enough to do finger foods or fun snacks but perhaps I offer a few extra bites in in-between the normal eating times or instead of his last solid feed around 5 – I offer some more bites before bath time and his final BF.
-   Depending on his days, sometimes 2 naps is what we do but if he’s only done 30 min naps, he has to do 3 even to get to the 6pm BT without extending past the 3 hr A time. If we can get the OT cycle under control and he naps a little longer, I think 2 naps a day is totally doable. I just don’t want to put him down before 6pm.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. The past 24 hours has been great, but I’ve learned to expect the unexpected. I’ll let you know how tonight and tomorrow goes….

Xoxo
Daneen & Gabe

[Jiinx]

Hi there,
 How did today go?
 
Yes, PUPD doesn't work if they are still using a pacifier. It might be worth thinking about weaning it out when he gets back on track

 If the NWs are long and he isn't put back to sleep right away with a plug or a pat, then maybe his A times need a closer look at. I just want to see how he does on a good night's rest and we can go from there.

It's tough being on an elimination diet. My lo can have wheat, but is intolerant to milk and soy and it's hard. I wish she could eat things that has calcium in it naturally without supplementing. Hoping your lo grows out of it soon.

[JuJuLuv]

Unfortunately, the past 2 days haven’t gone well….I’m feeling really discouraged and frustrated. I try to do everything possible to give this child the right framework to sleep and thrive and somehow we’re still battling continuous sleep issues. I’m exhausted and feeling like I’m failing...so hard when he is my #1 priority and all my energy and attention is focused on him and he's not sleeping well...

Later in the evening of my last post, we DF at 9:30 and then he woke at 3:10am. My hubby tried to get him down for 20 or so mins and then I came in and he was rooting like a madman and crying so I fed him. He took a pretty full feed. He then woke at 6:55. This AM, he woke at 1:50am and cooed and babbled in his crib for 15 mins before getting worked up. He was up from 1:50 – 3:45 and finally got back to sleep without taking a feed. For the first 30 mins, he was quiet and trying to get back to sleep with my presence/help. But then the following hour and 20min, it was awful - much of the same of crying and tossing around and pushing us and the paci away at times. We try giving him his lovey, picking him up, rocking him, singing to him, patting him, rubbing him, leaving him alone - everything. And it still takes so long for him to go back to sleep. And then he ended up waking up for the day at 6am (he had pooped so that could’ve been part of the reason for waking up so early).

Here’s our EASY for yesterday and partially for today:

Yesterday
EW @ 3:10, fed at 3:40 and back to sleep
Woke at 6:55
E: 7:10 (BF)
E: 7:50 (solids)
S: 9:25 – 10
E: 11:10 (BF)
E: 11:45 (solids)
S: 12:45 – 1:15 – my DH then went in and was determined to get him back to sleep so he rocked and sang to him and put him back down barely awake and he slept from 1:40 – 2:20
E: 3:15 (BF)
E: 4:05 (solids)
S: 6 – quick resettle at 6:40, a 5 mins resettle at 7:20 and then again at 7:50
DF: 9:30

(as he woke at 2:25 from his second nap, if we would’ve attempted a CN, would’ve been too late and close to BT, so the last A time was longer than I would’ve liked)

Today
EW @ 1:50 and stayed awake until 3:45 – no feeding tho
Woke @ 6:00
E: 6:20 (BF)
E: 7:30 (solids)
S: 8:55 – 10:10
E: 10:20 (BF)
E: 11:15 (solids)
S: 12:40 – 1:30 – he just woke up. My hubby is in there attempting to get him back down which so far has been unsuccessful (it’s been 10mins).

So here we run into the dilemma to try and CN or have a long A time again…argh! I’m thinking trying for a CN at 4 and see if he’ll do 30-45 mins then and then do a 6:30-6:45BT. We’ll see how that goes.

When he woke for the day this AM, he wasn’t all that hungry either which I found odd – he fed, but not for all too long (well he never nurses for very long, but even shorter than usual). He ate a pretty decent breakfast though. Makes me feel even more certain that the NW wasn’t hunger related…

My hubby is now starting to push more and more for CIO as he’s at his wits end and feels that’s becoming the only solution. I tell him about the possibility of broken trust and abandonment issues. He said last night, Gabe’s cries were not needy in the sense of desparation but more frustrated cries and he wanted us to put him back to sleep rather than doing it himself. Apparently he’s his own BW.

[Jiinx]

Hi sweetie,
 There's no chance of him having reflux again? Symptoms tend to change slightly as they get older and they become more tolerant of their pain. Just a thought. Reflux does tend to come up again when they start and continue teething. Just throwing an idea out Anything off with his bowels? Is he taking in full feeds during the day (bfs)? What kinds of solids does he eat? Dairy? Squash? Wheat? Just seems like taking a full feed and wanting to feed at night seems like a comforting thing more than anything..

So from an EASY perspective..I think he's UT a bit. I think it's safe to do a 3 hour first A (I know, even after a rough night) bc we really need to push his day out and we've tried the small As, which is not working too well atm. If it's not pain related, then the second A on one of your days was 2 hours and 30, I think, and he gave you a 35 minute nap? He needs at least 3 hours. 1 hour and 10 minutes is not completely the same as 1 hour and 30, but my lo did 1 hour and 10 mins ALL the time and she was able to go 3 -4 hours easily at that age.

On days when his days end before 3 pm, a bedtime that's closer is better than a CN..

Now onto your husband..

My hubby is now starting to push more and more for CIO as he’s at his wits end and feels that’s becoming the only solution. I tell him about the possibility of broken trust and abandonment issues. He said last night, Gabe’s cries were not needy in the sense of desparation but more frustrated cries and he wanted us to put him back to sleep rather than doing it himself. Apparently he’s his own BW.

When I was pregnant with my lo, I thought CIO was just something that was done - it was a normalcy, to put it. I read TH's books and I was a changed woman. It's awful hearing your lo cry, especially in the middle of the night. CIO will not solve future sleep problems. It's just a temporary bandage to make the situation go away rather than really work at it to see it for what it is - your lo is trying to communicate with you. If you like, I can get other ladies here to support you and you can bring your husband here to read their responses...

You could also show him these links:
* http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0
* http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163042.0 - this one is a post with a video on CIO on brain development.

When he cries, do you go in right away? Do his cries escalate?

Looking forward to your responses. We will work this out. *hugs* Hang in there..it may be that he just needs more A time

[JuJuLuv]

Thanks again, Sarah, I really appreciate the encouragement and response….

I guess it’s always possible that the reflux is back. I do notice that he spits up a bit more recently. Typically just once relatively soon after a BF – not so much after solids and not necessarily after every feed. Tough to tell with the bowels, he is VERY regular – like 3-5 BMs a day. Consistency and color and all that fun stuff varies depending on what he’s eaten. My largest concern there is just ensuring he doesn’t get plugged up. His full feeds used to be around 7-10 mins, now they dropped down to 4-5 mins now that solids are in the mix. His DF, many times, still is one of the longer feeds – 6 or so mins. But, then again, not so sure he’s as aggressively eating as he is when he’s wide awake. As for solids, he eats avocado, pears, apples, apricot, bananas, mangos, peaches, prunes, green beans, peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, squash, spinach, turkey, chicken, oatmeal, rice cereal, and brown rice. I think that covers everything. I haven’t introduced anything potentially scary yet like dairy or wheat due to the issues of allergy/intolerance early on. I know eventually I need to to see if he’s outgrown it or if either of those was the initial issue to begin with. One thing at a time though 

UT – really? Seems with so much disruptive sleep, I would think he is absolutely exhausted. I’m willing to try anything though. I’ll push for 3 hours for the first A and see how that goes. If he does under an hour nap after his first A, should I shorten the second A time to 2:45 or 2:30? Or just keep up the 3 hr A?

As for EASY for the remainder of today:

E: 2:20 (BF)
CN: 3:45 – 4:20
E: 4:30
BT: asleep at 6:45

Between 6:45 and his DF at 9:30, we had to go in 4 times. All were quick under 5 min paci replugs. Once we get this sleep bit figured out, I know we’ll need to take on weaning of the paci which I am SO not looking forward to….there are several times when he wakes and finds the paci himself which is great, but not consistent.

Thanks for the links on CIO – I’ve read a bit on this site and my gut tells me it’s no good – just wish I knew what he is trying to communicate in the wee early morning when I feel like we’ve tried absolutely everything to meet his needs.

For the most part, he wakes and starts to complain and then over a few minutes he escalates more – and then when he hears us come in, he even gets more worked up. Sometimes I think we go in too early but during those times, we’re trying to fix the problem before he really wakes up and gets upset. We realized that we were probably doing more harm than good in the long run so we’ve tried to get better about seeing if he can resettle himself first before rushing in. But, then again, I don’t want to error on the side of him CIO. I wonder though, at this point, if he knows we’ll come in so instead of really trying hard on his own, it’s easier to call out and have us come in and help him get back down…I don’t know – just a thought. I’m not sure if he developmentally or cognitively can think/operate that way at this point.

We’ll see how the rest of the night and tomorrow goes. I’ll push for 3 hr A time in the morning regardless if we have a 2 hour wakeful period in the wee hours of the morning.

Wish me luck!

[Chicane]

Hi Daneen

Jiinx has given you some great advice. I just want to add my bit (of course!)

You haven't failed my love. I had a stage of feeling that too when we were sleep training, I think we all have felt it. But many months later I realised its actually impossible for us to fail. Its the nature of babies to grow and change, to confound and confuse us. We would be failures if we with held our love, if we with held affection, if we didn't feed and clothe them. But we are not failures just because our LOs are having trouble sleeping...we are just mums (and dads). These days are tough but when you have surpassed them you will look back and go phew! that was bad, but actually in the scheme of things it didn't last that long. You will get there, we did, several times.

I was told that CIO is the only way to train a child to sleep. It never made sense to me. I knew there was no way that I was going to cope with letting him cry. It is not the only way. And its your choice to make. Has your DH read Tracy's books? Has he read the articles on CIO? He must read these articles before he can make an informed opinion or recommend CIO...he owes you that. If you persevere without CIO you will be so proud of your family when you reach your goal. You will feel comforted that you never left your LO alone to cry. CIO does not teach independent sleep, it does not teach LOs to self settle, it just exhausts them to sleep. And the bad habits will just rear their head again months down the track. I can't tell you how good it feels to both me and DH to know we trained DS without leaving him to cry.

But that doesn't mean he didn't cry. And it can be a fine line when you are trying to also see if LO will self settle. That's not CIO, to leave him for a short while to see if he gets back to sleep. Its a matter of learning when the cry goes from a mantra to desperation and it can be hard...the difference is that when it does escalate you go in there, you're there for him, unlike CIO where you dont go in.

All of you are doing a great job, you're doing the very best you can, and you know what? Its enough. To do your best. I can promise, actually promise you, that things will get better, and soon.

You're doing great, your baby loves you no matter what

xoxox

[Jiinx]

Hi again,

I guess it’s always possible that the reflux is back. I do notice that he spits up a bit more recently

You could always try giving him meds for a week and see if it improves. If it doesn't then you can stop. How was his reflux when he was younger? Did he STTN? Disrupted naps?

Wow, he is quite regular. And does seem to be eating enough.

His full feeds used to be around 7-10 mins, now they dropped down to 4-5 mins now that solids are in the mix.

I wouldn't base his quantity of bm on the amount of minutes he's at your breast. He's become an expert on bfing and is probably able to take in more feeds than he used to. As long as your breast feels soft after..

UT only bc we've tried everything else. What we're doing is simply not working and his A times can't get lower than 2 hours as he's not a small baby anymore, ykwim?

I'm wary of changing everything at once. So if you want to try the reflux meds first...I'd do that. Then if that doesn't work, I'd try increasing the A. Food...my lo doesn't agree with squash and sweet potato. Just pulling thoughts out and trying to see what works

Thanks Dani for your thoughts

How did your night go?

[JuJuLuv]

And the saga continues…

First of all, thank you both so much for taking the time to post and offer your advice and encouragement. It means a TON right now. I find myself getting so discouraged and I just keep rereading and it gets me through.

Not having too much improvement…3 steps forward, 2 back…here’s my EASY

The night I posted last…he was down at 6:45 and had 4 quick resettles between 6:45-9:30. I then DF (if you can call it that as he wasn’t really too asleep) at 9:30

Yesterday
No EW BUT
Woke at 5:20
E: 6:00
E: 7:00 (solids)*
S: 8:30 – 9:40 (took longer than usual to settle and fall asleep, hence the 10 mins over the 3 hour mark)
E: 10:00
E: 11:30 (solids)
S: 12:35 – 1:25
E: 2:00
E: 3:00 (solids)
Attempted CN at 3:50 – 4:15 but no go
BT @ 6
Multiple wakings starting at 7:30 and fed at 9:15. When woke, not a quick/quiet resettle, more upset

*it could be worth noting that I gave him an Earth’s Best b-fest blend that said Pears, Apples and Oatmeal and silly me (I blame my sleep deprivation), after I fed him 2/3rds of the jar decided to read the label and there was some milk in it which would be his first direct exposure to it. I don’t know for sure if that’s the allergy culprit but wondering if the additional wakings and extra upset outbursts are due to this…just a thought….no rash or break out, maybe a bit more gassy and loosen BMs but no diarrhea or anything and no spitting up.

Today
NW @ 12:50 – SO inconsolable – tried rocking, singing, changing his diaper, offering water and he just kept crying and screaming and desparate for the breast so I gave in and gave it to him. Back asleep by 1:30
EW again at 4:30 – only took 10 mins of resettling (paci and back rubs)
Woke @ 6:05
E: 6:20
E: 7:15 (solids)
S: 9:10 – 10:15 (woke at 9:35 and I quickly replugged and rubbed and he went back out until 10:15)
E: 10:20
E: 11:15 (solids)
S: 1:30 – 2:10 (took 20 mins for him to settle and fall asleep and then woke at 1:50 and able to get him back down). He woke at 2:10 and I tried to get him back down in his crib, then picked him up and rocked and sang and then fed but he wouldn’t go back to sleep)
E: 2:20

It’s now 3:20 and I’m really not sure what to do…maybe offer another nap sooner than later? And if he doesn’t go down, shoot for another asleep by 6pm night? I don’t really want to put him down earlier than that as I can totally see multiple wakings and EW happening. He’s definitely grouchy and crabby which is no surprise really. I’ve emailed my pediatrician asking him to call in the reflux prescription so hopefully that will happen quickly. Funny, the past few days, he hasn't really spit up much, if at all - I know reflux can still happen without this symptom though so it could still be a possibility.

Any possibility he needs to up his A time even longer? The past few days, it’s taken much longer than it generally does for him to wind down and actually get to sleep. I’m doing the same wind down process of singing and rocking in the chair and he’s squirming all over. When I place him in his crib, he immediately gets up on all 4s and rocks back and forth. I put him on his side and say it’s nap time and to lie down and all that, and he gets right back up and we do this over and over and over until he finally settles. I can’t even imagine going through what I am without a paci….so I’m going to let that go until we get in a better situation. I’m so exhausted and at my wits end that I can’t imagine taking on that monster right now.

He isn’t yet crawling but getting close as well as drooling like crazy so I’m sure some developmental stuff is adding to this mix. I just wish I knew what to do to get in a better place.

As for CIO, we’re not going to do it. It’s takes 2 people to support that and I don’t. I’ve talked with my DH more about it and he’s supportive. We’re just both really frustrated and feeling a bit defeated so he’s just looking for a solution and other friends have sworn by it.

Any other tweaks you can see that I could make? Could he just be one of those babies who needs less than average sleep? Many times, after a short nap, he does wake up in a good mood. Recently though, he does get a bit cranky around the 3 hour mark and we’ve had some long A times at the end of day which can be tough. When he wakes in the 5 am hour and both naps are done by 1, it’s inevitable that I need to offer another nap. Would be so nice to have 2 naps and decently long ones….a girl can dream

Thanks again for helping me and keeping up with this post. We’ll see how tonight and tomorrow goes…

[JuJuLuv]

Oh yeah, one more thought.....as he's up so early and his last solid feed is around 3 or so, wondering if it would make any difference or help to do his last solids a little later, like an hour or so before BT and then do our normal nursing just before....I'm thinking what he's taking from me probably has more fat and calories than the fruit and veggies but just a thought....

[Jiinx]

Hey!
 So ...at first glance, his A times look fine. The second one looks a bit long though - over 4 hours? Is that correct?
 I know on paper, these short naps are indicating OT BUT the lengths of the naps are just not sitting in my head as OT. I have a toddler who did these kinds of lengths ALL the time. It was frustrating bc I thought she would get OT and I put her down earlier for the next nap and she STILL short napped.

 I don't feel comfortable telling you to increase his A to 3 and half hours but if things don't get better it may be worth doing set naps at 9am and 1pm. Or whatever times you wish. Sometimes set naps help with babies.

 The only other thing that gets my lo weird nap lengths is her diet. She's soy intolerant and would wake up screaming during her naps and early in the morning. I don't think your lo is doing it to that extent. The milk...maybe. Acid reflux..another possibility. This is where you need to be a detective...is he writhing in pain? Does he have more gas than usual? Is there mucous in his dirty diapers? Is his mood off? Pain medication perhaps not working?

And then teeth. Do look inside his mouth to see if there are any bumps and medicate before a nap to see if that works.

That's all I can think of so far....HTH

[JuJuLuv]

A times are always 3 hours or under (unless of course I’m at an appointment that runs long or some other thing somewhat out of my control) – the only A time that can go past would be the last one due to the CN or lack there of as it would be too close to BT.

Interesting idea on doing a set nap times – hopefully over the next week or so there can be some consistency with his morning wake time which would make finding the right time for a set nap more realistic.

I think diet has played a role in the past few days. I knew about the heavy milk secret ingredient and that didn’t seem too bad, but yesterday he was all kinds of fussy and really really gassy. I couldn’t figure it out (thought maybe the milk took longer to digest or something) and then I recalled giving him a multi-grain cereal for the first time in the AM and one of the ingredients is spelt which I didn’t realize is wheat. I have suspicions that wheat is an issue for him b/c I tried reintroducing it into my diet awhile back and feel like he had issues – I had the stool tested for microscopic blood (when I reintroduced) again but those were all negative but blood doesn’t have to be present for there to be an allergy or intolerance. We played it super safe today food wise and he seems better.

My pediatrician ordered up the reflux meds and I pick them up tomorrow so we’ll see how that goes for the next week or so….

Here is my EASY since the last post:

After his BF at 2:20, I attempted a CN
Took about 20 mins, but he did go down
CN: 4 – 4:45
E: 5:30 (solids and a lot of em)
S: 7:05 – slept solid until 9 and woke up upset, tried to console and then as we were planning a 9:15 DF, I fed him….he went back down and then similar upset waking at 11:30 – no feed but this one took probably 45 mins to get him back down. I believe we dosed him with Tylenol which I think helped.

We elevated his mattress in hopes that if it was reflux, this would help. It might have, BUT, he’s such an active little sleeper that he ended up at the bottom of the crib a few times all scrunched up.

Today:
He didn’t wake but we did at 2am, he was turned completely around so his head was at the bottom of the crib, so my DH went in and readjusted him, luckily he stayed asleep. Same thing happened at 4:40 but when I moved him, he woke up – and not very gracefully. It took me 45 mins to get him back down (next time, I’ll just leave him alone). No feed or anything. Gotta love how even though he doesn’t wake, we do all throughout the night out of habit.
Woke @ 6:40
E: 6:55
E: 7:45 (solids)
S: 9:40 – 10:10 – tried to rock and sing to him in the dark to get him back down but no go
E: 11
E: 12:30 (solids)
S: 1:30 – 3:45! He initially woke at 2pm (typical 30 min mark) but I could tell he was still so tired, so I helped him get back to sleep and he slept from 2:15 – 3:45.
E: 3:50
E: 5:00 (solids)
S: 7:05 – it’s now 9:30 and he hasn’t woken up yet! Typically we would do the DF at 9:15 but we don’t want to disrupt his sleep so we’re going to attempt not doing it. Not sure this is the right answer but I would rather chance him getting a better nights rest and if he does wake at some crazy hour and rooting around, I’ll feed then.

He has had a bit more of a hard time settling for naps and we still have some short ones but I think food might’ve been the culprit for some of this. Today seems to be better and he is sleeping nicely at the moment. I’m praying tonight goes well and he can get caught up on sleep so that the next few days start to have some normalcy to them. Please oh please oh please!

I’ll let you know how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks again for all your input and suggestions, you ladies are the best

[JuJuLuv]

Seems I posted too soon! Literally 5 mins after I posted, he woke up and we waited to see if he would resettle (gotta love the video monitor - not) and he got more worked up so I went in. I tried to give him his paci, but he ended up crying and pushing my hands and the paci away. He would then take it but only for a seond and then get worked up again and start all over. So, we ended up feeding him. Hopefully this will keep him satiated for the remainder of the night and the early morning.

My hubby is thinking at this point, because he is such a vocal/loud baby, that we turn the monitor off and if he really needs us, we'll hear him....not sure I'm there yet but might not be a bad idea - would help the concern about going in too early. I'm a pretty light sleeper and especially when it comes to him...

Also, what are your thoughts about noise in the room? He has slept with a noise machine for awhile now and my hubby is convinced that could be part of the problem (I don't think it is). Last night and tonight, we've turned it off and just have some nice mellow music playing. Not sure if you had any opinions about it either way. I will say, he does run the roost in terms of us being so quiet in the evenings - i never wanted to be "those" parents that catered to the sleeping baby in the house but we've had such issues with sleep that when he is asleep we do whatever possible to keep him that way. I'm convinced baby #2 is so much better adjusted, for many reasons, but one being that you can't really control the rucous and volume of a toddler so the baby learns to sleep in all kinds of noise

I should try and hit the sack early as I never know what each evening and early morning will bring...