Another Mom Suffering from 7.5mo LO with short naps & inconsolable EW

[Chicane]

Hey Daneen,

I am hesitant too to suggest an increase in A times at least until the reflux box has been ticked. Let see how the meds go and if things improve then there's your problem (for the moment anyway!)

However, if you want you could try increasing, but I would suggest doing it slowly by 10 min increments over a few days. See what you get.

And also, I think teeth could be a big thing for him too...so, some paracetamol before bed could help that...

No experience with the noise machine, but look, its worth a try no? Switch it off a few nights, see what happens.

As far as him ruling the roost, well, they are so little yet to powerful aren't they? We all had images of what kind of parents we were going to be before we actually had the kids. Then they come and we have no idea what we are doing. Don't worry about it. You do what you do in order to stay sane. The routine will get sorted out, things will mellow and you will all feel better soon. This time will pass. (and then he'll start the 2-1 nap transition and it will go to hell again, then he'll crawl, then walk, then get his drivers license but want to get a motorbike, then meet a girl, oh my oh my...it just goes on an on!)

big hugs

xo

[Jiinx]

hey...I agree, I do want to just increase his first A as I think it might be too short (did he wake up happy from his 30 minute nap?). I think 3 hours is little, but not too little that he would wake at 30 minutes. I would imagine 45 mins - 60 mins would be indicative of UT and an increase in A time. I think teeth, diet or reflux may be a factor ...so we'll just wait and see. How does that sound?

His second nap looked great. It may have interfered with bedtime just a tad as he may have been too rested to go to sleep for 7. Again, this may not be the reason at all...just an idea. Did you medicate him before going to sleep?

I'm sort of happy I don't have  video monitor but sometimes I wish I did. I know with my daughter being 17 months there is NO way to help her go back to sleep. Once I'm in there, it's over. At your lo's age though, they do cry and they do need you and you can get them back to sleep

Hope the rest of your night was okay

[JuJuLuv]

I’m almost scared to post as I might jinx what’s been happening the past 24 hours but I had to write as you ladies have been so fabulous with advice and keeping up with my drama

Last night went really well – he was down at 7:05 and as I mentioned we weren’t going to interrupt him to do a DF but he woke up and wouldn’t easily resettle at 9:30, so I fed him….after that, I didn’t have to go in to him until 6:40AM!!! I couldn’t even believe it! Of course, I woke up a few times and checked on him via the monitor and all was well. And things were so much better today too!

Here is our EASY today

NO EW OR NW!
Woke @ 6:40
E: 6:55
E: 7:45 (solids)
S: 9:00 – 10:10 (was going to put him down closer to 9:30 but had an appt and had to get him down before a babysitter came in)
E: 11:15
E: 11:45 (solids)
S: 1:45 – 3:55! I had hopes of getting him down right at 1:15 but we were heading back from his class at Little Gym which pushed us a bit over the 3hr mark but it didn’t seem to hinder him this time around as he slept over 2 hrs! I was tempted to wake at the 2 hour mark but figured I’d give him another 15-20 mins and he ended up waking up on his own
E: 4
E: 5:20 (solids)
E: 6:40
S: 7:15 (wind down took a bit longer but he was out by 7:15)
It’s now 9:40 and we haven’t had to go in at all….yet. Typically I would DF at 9:15 but like last night, I don’t want to disrupt his sleep AT ALL as we’ve had a good 24 hours. I figure if he wakes and won’t resettle, I’ll feed but otherwise let him sleep. What do you ladies think?

Hoping that we perhaps have turned a corner and we’ve overcoming the OT beast as well as any dietary issues. I’ve kept things nice and mellow and safe. I haven’t introduced any new foods today or yesterday. I did go to the pharmacy and picked up the reflux meds. Wondering if I should hold off on giving them to him for a few days to see if this good sleeping bit sticks without them. If so, maybe he doesn’t need reflux meds right now. Good to have on hand none-the-less.

If every day or even more days were like this, I might actually feel like I could have somewhat of a life again Funny how much better of a mood I'm in today. I had some work to do but wished i would've napped when he took his nice 2 hour nap. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to actually count on him taking a 2 hour nap in the afternoon? That would be oh so fabulous...

I’ll let you know how this evening and tomorrow AM goes….

Oh, and be oh so greatful you don't have a video monitor, it drives us absolutely nuts and makes us more neurotic than we already are if that's possible

[Jiinx]

Oh, and be oh so greatful you don't have a video monitor, it drives us absolutely nuts and makes us more neurotic than we already are if that's possible Smiley

lol

That's a great day! I think you've caught him up on his OT from the looks of it. the second A and third A look pretty good. I would imagine you could start adding 5-10 minutes to his first A (if you like to push it out) if he gives you a good night.

I'm so glad you had a good day. You're right, you feel incredible when they get some good sleep and know they're capable of good naps! Hold on to that feeling and don't forget it..you're a great mom who's so devoted to their little son

Hope you had a good night!
sarah

[Chicane]

whoo hoo!

(get rid of the video monitor!)

xo

[JuJuLuv]

I wanted to send along an update as things have been going much better

After my last post, where he went down at 7:15pm, we didn’t go into his room until 7AM the next morning! He didn’t wake at all for a feed or randomly in the middle of the night or early morning. Of course, my DH and I woke up a few times throughout the night and checked on him to be sure he was ok and still breathing. Now we just need to learn how to STTN

EASY for Fri & Sat

Fri:
No EW or NW
Woke @ 7:05
E: 7:15
E: 8:00 (solids)
S: 10:15 – 11:25
E: 11:20
E: 12:45 (solids)
S: 2:40 – 4 (woke at 3:15, but was quickly able to fall back asleep with a replug and a few pats)
E: 4:05
E: 5:30 (solids)
S: Initially at 7 but pretty restless for a bit (maybe not tired enough), finally out by 7:25. Woke at 10 and wouldn’t go back down (we tried settling him in his crib, then picked him up, turned on the light, offered water, etc but kept crying so I fed him at 10:15

Sat:
No NW or EW
Woke him at 7:20
E: 7:25
E: 8:20 (solids)
S: 10:20 – 11:30
E: 11:35
E: 1:00 (solids)
S: 2:35 – 3:45 (woke at 3:00 but was quickly able to fall back asleep like the afternoon before)
E: 3:50
E: 5:15 (solids)
S: 7:15/7:20

It’s now 9:15 and neither of us have had to go in yet. Hoping he won’t wake for food or maybe I do as the other night when he didn’t, I was really engorged in the AM. Was really hoping to do the general phase out of the DF but that didn’t seem to work so great (seemed more disruptive than anything) so we’ll see how it goes…from an emotional standpoint, I will say there is a part of me that will miss the DF – he’s so active now during his awake time that holding him while he’s asleep in the quiet low lit room and nursing is something I really cherish.

“A” time is right around 3 hours and naps are over an hour each so that’s great – and b/c he’s waking around 7am, we’re only doing 2 naps and not having to worry about a CN. The past 2 days, he has woken up about 30 mins into his afternoon nap and needed some help getting back down – hoping he’ll learn how to transition without me…

He was running a low grade fever today and I do start to see his right top tooth making it’s way through – hasn’t broken through the skin but it’s coming…really really hoping this doesn’t totally derail the progress over the past few days.

And, as for the video monitor, we’re starting to wean ourselves during the day and turning it down at night. Hoping we can eventually get rid of it

[Chicane]

You guys are great!

And funny! Weaning from the monitor...is there a way you can just turn off the video part?

So, things are looking good. You may need to continue to help him when he needs it, thats fine, especially as teeth come through. His naps still seem quite short to me...but listen, if you think its all good, if his mood is fine, if he doesn't fight going down or wake up cranky, then go with it.

You're doing brilliantly

keep us posted

[JuJuLuv]

As it’s been a week since my last post I wanted to check in and give an update….we’ve had some good days and some not so good days – such is the life of a mom and her 8 month old DS right??

We’ve been having some continued success with a bit longer naps – still a few 30 min naps but more 1hr 10min naps. I’ve even had maybe 2 – 2 hr naps in the past week which is great. I’ve been sticking with the 3 hour A times but sometimes a bit less but not longer if I can help it. I would love for him to extend his naps and have tried several things to help but rarely is it successful.

We definitely have been having some teething issues – he’s crankier and rubbing at his face/mouth a lot. I see the right upper tooth has broken through the skin but just barely. We’ve done our best to medicate at night with Tylenol and put homeopathic teething gel on his gums.

Lately, we’ve been having some NW happening again This might be teeth related (I hope) but wondering if there is something else I can do to try and help the situation.

EVERY night he wakes somewhere between 9-11:30 and is inconsolable until I feed him. Once he is fed, he’s out peacefully. I don’t think he needs to eat so I’ve been doing all I can to get him back to sleep without feeding him. But, after 30-60 mins of screaming, crying, crocodile tears and holding and rocking him and offering water and turning on the lights, offering the paci, etc and NOTHING works, I give him the boob and all is right with the world. He seems to take full feeds though….any possibility it’s a growth spurt? He is 8 months and is right on the cusp of crawling.

I was tapering back the DFs and then felt they were becoming disruptive so I stopped them entirely and figured I’d feed him if after trying to get him back to sleep didn’t work. I still end up doing a feed between 9-11:30 – he just seems to dictate it rather than me. There is the rare occasion he’s slept through but I can count those on one hand. I talked with my therapist about this and she said why don’t you, for a week, instead of waiting it out with all the drama to feed, when he wakes and won’t resettle within a few mins, feed him. Babies need to suckle and perhaps he’s in pain from his teeth, or needs comfort for the developmental stuff going on or a growth spurt and might not be food related at all….at any rate, she thought that was worth a shot. Maybe it would make me less stressed and him more quickly comforted and all of us getting a bit more sleep. BUT, is this AP? Will I regret it later? Or am I not giving my DS enough credit that perhaps it’s just a temporary phase and he won’t depend on it? Am I neurotic or what? Lol.

Could still feeding him this one time between 9-11:30 be lending to the night wakes thought?? In the past week, we’ve had 5 of the 7 nights with wakeful periods and some nights 2x. We’ve had 3 between 4-5am, 1 at 1:00am, 2 at 12:30am and 1 at 3:30am. Only 2 were quick resettles and the others he was awake for 1-2.5 hours which is brutal at these hours. I tend not to feed at these times but have a few times out of pure exhaustion. After the NW, he generally wakes for the AM between 6-7am. As they happen at all different times, could it be a growth spurt??

I’m yet again at a loss of what to do as I felt like we made some good progress with eliminating the NW and EW and now we’re getting a bit more. Any ideas or thoughts?

[Jiinx]

Hi there!
 Glad you've had some good moments rather than all bad! Things may be looking up.

 I don't know too much about feeds, nighttimes and such..but I don't think he should be really having a feed around this time. However, this is only based on what I know about my daughter and I don't have experience with night feedings. My lo did go through a week of a growth spurt at 7.5 months so perhaps wait a week and see what happens? It could be that he's used to waking for a feed? I'm imagining he's not OT and that's why he's waking since he's having such good naps...most of the times! Give it a week or so and see what happens. What can be done cannot be undone, ykwim?

Post on the breastfeeding board if you can...they may have some insights as to growth spurts...

In terms of his NWs...if it's a recent occurrence, it could be his teeth giving him discomfort. When they're sleeping, they feel the movements much more than if they were busy crawling etc. Crawling also could be causing some waking.

Post your EASY and we can take a look. I don't think he has too little A...as you're pretty cautious as to having them too long.

sarah

[JuJuLuv]

Thanks for the reply Sarah! I took your advice and posted over on the BF forum – hopefully they might have some ideas…

I don’t think he should need to eat either but my OB today thought it made perfect sense that he was waking to eat and actually recommended I offer some solids around this time. I definitely don’t think that’s necessary. I don’t really mind feeding him as I’m still awake but if it’s contributing to the EW/NW then I do mind! Lol.

I think there is an element of being used to waking – though it was always intended to be a DF, I’m sure he ½ woke up many of the times we did it. When the time change occurred that naturally bumped things from 10:30 to 9:30 and then I just tried to continue getting closer to bedtime. As I was changing it up, I was hoping that would eliminate the waking out of habit. What is so bizarre is that he wakes up immediately upset and won’t calm down until he’s fed. He is SO exhausted but just can’t seem to settle. And, like I mentioned before, it’s not like he just takes a few sucks, it’s s full blown feed (or at least feels that way). He’s on 4 hour EASY in the day and gets probably 16-20 oz of solids throughout the day as well.

He seems to be in a bit better mood – I can feel the tooth so I think breaking through the skin has alleviated some pressure on the gums. We also didn’t have a EW/NW last night so that was lovely. He did eat at 11:05 but then slept until 6am this AM. And, he did his first legitimate crawl today! Lots going on which I’m sure is contributing to the various fluctuations.

Here is my EASY for the past 3 days:

Today:
No NW/EW
Woke at 6am
E: 6:30
E: 7:30 (solids)
S: 9 – 10:10
E: 10:30
E: 11:30 (solids)
S: 1:25 – 2:40
E: 3:00
E: 5:00 (solids)
E: 6:05
S: 6:25 – just had his upset wake at 10am so we changed and fed him and he’s back down – hopefully for the remainder of the night!

Yesterday:
EW from 3:30 – 4:40
Woke @ 6:45 but think he might’ve dozed a bit until 7:15
E: 8
E: 9 (solids)
S: 9:25 – 10:15
E: 11:30
E: 12:30 (solids)
S: 1:0 – 2:30
E: 3:30
E: 5
E: 6
S: 6:20 – asleep until 11:05 and then changed and fed and back to sleep until 6am the following AM

Day before Yesterday (think this was a really bad teething night)
NW @ 12:30 (relatively quick resettle)
NW 1:10 – 3:30 (fed)
Woke at 5:40
E: 6:10
E: 7 (solids)
S: 8:35 – 9:10
E: 10
E: 11 (solids)
S: 11:50 – 1:40 (almost 2 hrs!)
E: 2
Attempted CN at 3:45 – no go
E: 5
E: 6
S: 6:20

As you’ll see, the one challenge I have is that he wakes relatively early in the AM and doesn’t take really long naps so we end up with our longest A time at the end of the day. The end of the day is also where his longest stretches between eating are – maybe I need to tweak this a bit…what do you think?

[Chicane]

Hi love

only have a min so can't comment on the EASY but as far as the night feeds - well, I was doing one night feed right up until 12 months. Ok, he didn't need it at 12 months but I couldn't wean it cause I had to wait till DH had some time off to help me...that's another story. But at 8 months I still felt that my DS needed the night feed. He did not take to solids at all until a week after his 1st birthday. I mean, AT ALL. For 6 months I prepared every kind of food under the sun and tried all kinds of methods, not having it, I was lucky if he would take the tip of a baby spoon of something. So, I still felt he needed the calories at night to get through.

This may not help, but thought it might be some comfort to know that we were still doing a night feed at this age...

x

[Jiinx]

Hi there sweetie,
 Just seeing a pattern in your EASY. His first nap is short, but I think restorative enough to keep him up for 3 hour and some time ..thus giving him another nap of 1 hour and 10 minutes or so.

 One of your days had him take a short nap (after about 2 hours of A time, I think)..but his second nap was long bc he was finally tired enough to take that nap, ykwim?

His last A is very long..may be the cause of some of NWs..

I think you're okay to increase his first A..despite his wake up time in the morning. It's worth a try? If he wake at 6am..you could still put him down at 9am (if it was a short night) or longer, 9:30ish. It's really the only way to push his days out and get him to a decent bedtime without a really long last A time.

HTH? sarah

[JuJuLuv]

Thanks so much for the feedback on night feeds – I was thinking I was helping in the creation of the random NWs by feeding him but the general consensus, thus far, is that shouldn’t really be impacting things so that’s great news. For the most part, I’ve always tried to get him back to sleep without offering food but sometimes I think I have tried to hold out too long and he almost expects it will be a fight. This week I’ve been trying a few of the usual tricks of the trade that typically work and if they don’t, I offer the breast a bit quicker.

I’ve been trying to slowly increase morning and mid morning A times in hopes that the last A time isn’t so long. I think I’m having some success there. We are still having some EW but they aren’t totally inconsistent. Had 2 nights where he woke but I didn’t go in b/c he wasn’t crying and he managed to put himself back to sleep. Another night, he was up from 3:20 – 5:40am which was awful. Not really sure what’s going on but I know all I can do is try to set the stage as best I can to help him thrive and sleep but ultimately I can’t make him do anything…

Here’s my EASY since my last post

Today
EW around 3:30 but didn’t go in – he put himself back to sleep
Woke at 6:45
E: 7
E: 8 (solids)
S: 9:30 – 10:15 – he seemed really tired this AM so I didn’t want to push it and he went down under 3 hour A. I think his 4th tooth is coming in which is giving him grief
E: 10:45
E: 12:00 (solids)
S: 1:30 – 2:30
E: 3:00
E: 5:00 (solids)
E: 6:20
S: 6:40
Woke at 7:45 and pretty sure it was a night terror. Was up from 7:45 – 9:15 Fed him at 9:10 and out he went.
It’s now 10pm and he’s still soundly sleeping.
His last A time was longer than I would’ve liked. He was a bit cranky and needy today – really think his teeth are bothering him…..no fun at all!

Yesterday
EW at 3:00am but didn’t go in – put himself back to sleep
Woke at 7:05
E: 7:15
E: 8:15 (solids)
S: tried to get him down by 10:15 but was having none of it – crying and such – so
E: 10:30
S: finally slept: 10:40 – 11:50
E: 1:00 (solids)
S: Tried to put down at 3pm but refused to go down – tried everything for an hour, including feeding him a few times and crawling in the crib with him – no go
E: 3:30
E: 5:00
E: 6:00
S: 6:15 – quick resettle at 7ish and then woke around 11 and I fed him
Clearly, he had a ridiculously long A time in the afternoon as he refused any kind of nap – up for a solid 6+ hours

Day before yesterday
EW from 4:30 – 5:15 (no feed)
Up at 6:45
E: 7:15
E: 8:30 (solids)
S: 10:15 – 12:10 (almost 2 hours!!)
E: 12:15
E: 1:45 (solids)
S: 3:25 – 4 (pooped so I think this might’ve contributed to a shorter nap – that or he had such an unusual long nap in the AM, he decided he didn’t need much sleep in the afternoon)
E: 4:10
E: 5:15 (solids)
E: 7
S: 7:15/7:20 – he woke all kind of upset at 10pm so I fed him and back down he went

Day before that
EW from 3:20 – 5:40 (fed at 4:30)
Up at 7:45
E: 7:55
E: 9:10 (solids)
S: 10:50 – 12:05
E: 12:10
E: 1:20 (solids)
S: 3:15 – 4:40
E: 4:45
E: 5:45 (solids)
E: 7 (didn’t take much)
S: 7:25

I think things are getting better but really just depends on the day and how he’s feeling – this week has been filled with just learning how to crawl and then the teething bit. As he’s 8.5 months, I will continue to try to move his A times closer to 3.5 hours.

Question about doing that though, if he’s on 4 hour EASY and his A time is 3-3.5 hours, it’s quite likely he’ll be sleeping when the 4 hour mark hits. I then just feed when he wakes but then by the end of the day, sometimes the time in between when I last fed before he gets his last bedtime feed is only 2 hours or so. Is there something beyond 4 hour EASY that I should be transitioning to soon?

You ladies are so great. Thanks again for keeping up with my latest drama as a new mommy

[Jiinx]

Hi hunny,
 Yeah it does sound like those teeth are bothering him - poor naps and random NWs Have you tried medicating before a nap?

 A glance through your EASY, it does seem like he naps better with an A time of 3 hours. And really, that's what is the minimum for his age. I think he's somewhere between 3.15-3.5 hours.

 So I'm trying to remember what I did at his age. I think she was doing some EWs at this age so it ended up being an hour until I fed her..and then I fed her after her nap if I'mnot mistaken. When solids are introduced and well established, their 4 feeds can be relaxed - they can be a bit earlier but can also be at 4.5 hours too...

I looked through some routines..there may be one that may help?
* http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164030.0