Need a sounding board. *poop pics added

[~Emma~]

OK. Need some help here with DD. Thinking about the possibility of MSPI or the ilk. I know nothing about this so thought I would start by coming here and listing all the things the things with her and perhaps some BTDT Mamas can see of it might be a possibility.

 -The last 2 or 3 days she has had sort of stringy poos. More greenish in colour. She has been prone to be on the more runny side of poos but I thought that perhaps more to do with my over active letdown.

- Always sounds congested. Always has.

- Fussy feeder. Again I thought more due to OAL (which has calmed down somewhat recently). She can go from refusing feeds one minute to wanting to eat all the time the next. When she does feed she os jerking all over the shop, arms flailing.

- Constantly sticking fists in mouth even after just being fed.

- Does NOT nap. Ever. 20 mins at a time if she does, very rarely naps longer.

- Hiccups quite alot

- Very gassy. Farts in her sleep!

- Fidgety, never quite relaxed. Even when asleep. Cranial osteopath commented on this alot at her appointment on Monday. Very jerky.

- She does spit up during/after feeds and doesn't like it but doesn't scream the house down either

- Bad skin on face (spotty and bumpy) and patches of eczema, GP checked eczema and said not uncommon in babies.

The poops are obviously what are bringing this all together for me right now but she is just getting over a bout of cold too so dont know if thats related to the nappies. The nap situation has always been worrisome of course. The thing is over and above all of this is that she isn't a baby that  cries alot. Although saying that as the weeks go on she does cry alot more in the day, I was assuming OT due to the lack of sleep. Night sleep is generally fine although the last 3 nights she has 3 nw instead of 1.

 I just dont know what to think, everything seems so vague. Like I said I dont know the first thing about any of this stuff just thought I'd put it out there after posting on the BF boards about the poop.

 Thoughts?  

 

[~inbalance~]

Since I've already given my thoughts I'm just here for some hand holding.     Sounds so much like how F was at that age too.   

[~ Vik ~]

(((hugs))) Emma.  Sounds like you and your poor wee girl are really going through it.

Dylan never had any intolerances so I can't really speak to the mucousy poops, but he does have a dairy allergy (among others) and eczema which was quite severe when he was young, and I did a dairy elimination when he was younger.  His sleep was garbage - he woke up every 45m-1h, from all naps and all night long - and we attributed that to his skin, but could easily have been tummy discomfort too...  My dairy elimination did not improve things as much as I would have hoped, but we didn't know at the time that he had multiple food allergies and I was still eating his other allergens almost daily.

TBH, reading what you have written, I would suspect that *something* is bothering her.  Although OALD could cause some of the symptoms you're describing (greenish poops, though not the mucous, gas, fussing during feeds, even the hiccups), it wouldn't contribute to mucousy poops or eczema.  If it is something in your diet, dairy and/or soy are the most likely culprits, though it could be anything really

Have you thought about doing a dairy/soy elimination?  It's daunting to think about - I LOVE milk, cheese, ice cream - but it is possible.  It takes a lot of label reading, and finding substitutions for things that you usually use, but once you get used to it it really becomes habit.  You can use rice/oat/almond milk for cooking or drinking, I use a vegan margarine for all of Dylan's foods, you can use coconut oil (a solid) as a substitute for butter in baking.  I have to make just about everything from scratch, but TBH we're all eating healthier for it anyway.  I could give you brands but they'd probably be useless to you as I don't know if you'd have them in Scotland.  I'm sure other moms will pop on with more thoughts and hopefully some more concrete advice for you too!

xxxx

[deb]

At this point from many of your posts I know that you've got your hands full already, so the idea of an elimination diet might well be daunting, BUT if it helps with her symptoms, and if it helps her SLEEP, then at least you'll know, KWIM? IMO you have more to gain from trying it for even 2-3 weeks than you do to lose. Many of the symptoms you're describing sound like textbook MPI or MPSI. (BTW, when Nat's poops were green, it turned out to be carageenan in the rice milk I was drinking. I had to switch brands for a couple months. It might be something that simple.)

My two cents, worth what ya paid for it. 

[~Emma~]

The eczema is just a patch on her forehead. Its always dry but flares up now and again. She has red pimply spots all around her neck and chin and on her chest too. So really not too sure if the eczema is that bad to warrant thinking an intolerance of some kind.

 I'm all over the shop with this. I cant make a bloody simple decision these days never mind something like this. I'll wait for her next poop and examine more closely!

 I am feeling very daunted by it all. I am a dairy kinda gal. I drink full fat milk and take cream in my coffee. Cheese of any kind is my ultimate favourite food, as are eggs. I just dont know what the hell i'd eat!

 Do I need to speak to my doc about this do you think? Or just go ahead and take out dairy? Do I just start with the pbvious culprits like cheese and milk ir go all out on everything?

 I'm very confused.  Easily done these days I tell ya! 

[~Emma~]

 So she done a poop.It was on the greener side of yellow iykwim( she done one yesterday that was almost grey!). No seedy bit and bits of snot-like stuff in it that was quite stringy.

 Thing is she actually is napping this morning, this is the 1st time in about 2 weeks she's napped longer than 20 mins. Resettled at 30 but she's still going. Difference today is she's on her left side and swaddled differently with the MB. ie arms not directly at her side. She sleeps on her back all night with the MB done up real tight though. She's also a mega escape artist from the swaddle!

 Bleurgh. Dont know what to think. I'm in no doubt she's a touch refluxy, nothing too major I dont think. Just kinda baby growing onto themselves sort of stuff but then again maybe not.

[Roseii]

hun I was in your exact position a few months ago, all the same symptoms except DD was terribly constipated, it took 4 days of a dairy free diet to see an improvement. If you could cope with it for 1 week I really, really would try. It took me 10 weeks to concede I needed to try it, wish I had done it sooner
Tbh my Dr was very scathing when I mentioned possible dairy intolerance, I would just go ahead and try it and make sure you get calcium from other sources. I avoided dairy completely, I don't see the point in avoiding obvious but not hidden, just prolongs the process of finding out if she is intolerant. If she is she will more than likely grow out of it
(((hugs))) and good luck, it is SO hard (cheese is actually my favourite food in the world) but worth it to continue bf for a bit. That said, if you do find it is helping but too difficult for you to do there are options such as nutramigen

xxx

[~Emma~]

 I would really, really like to continue to BF if at all possible. It was always my intention to mix feed though but I guess if I want to give her a bottle then the pump will have to come out for the time being until I get to the bottom of this.

 I'm going to start in a few days I think. Our meals are all planned and it heavy snow here so I cant get out of the house with the kids to find alternatives just now. Would also like to do a bit more research first. She's got her immunisations today anyways so no doubt today she'll be off anyway. Exactly how much more procrastination can I do you think?

 Am I likely to see a difference in a week?

 LIke I said she's not an unhappy baby for the most part and thats whats holding me back really.

[Shiv52]

Adding some {{{hugs}}}

Good luck with the jabs today.  R had hers yesterday and slept for ages after.  Hope D is ok xx

I mentioned to my doctor yesterday that R is very windy and it disturbs her sleep etc.  he said the usual...gripe water or infacol used consistently for a week each.  He did mention food intolerances actually (cows milk in particular) and said its worth cutting them if you think its an issue.  He said a lot of digestive issues iron themselves out by 3/4 months but not sure i'd wait that long if I thought it was an issue and an actual allergy.  We don't have a lot of the other symptoms other than the wind and i'm still guessing thats to do with OAL so am going to monitor for now.  I'd keep an eye on D's nappies and if the green mucousy ones persist it may very well be worth doing a trial.  As pp say, nothing to lose, tonnes to gain. 

More {{{hugs}}}

[~inbalance~]

Cheese of any kind is my ultimate favourite food

Me too Emma, and I mean my FAVORITE food in the whole wide world!  It was so depressing for me to give it up.  Honestly though, I could have written your post, I really could of.  But I was so not willing to give up BFding at any cost.  I think you should try it.  I know it's not what you want to hear, but if it helps then it's worth it.  (((hugs)))

I saw a difference within days of getting rid of the big stuff, so I think you are likely to notice some differences in a week.  But overall it took awhile for his poops to be normal again.  And we still struggled for quite some time, mainly because of the difficulty of staying dairy free on my part!  Don't forget to watch out for hidden dairy too. 

Good luck, we are all here to go through it with you!!

[deb]

Well, if you want to take out the dairy for a trial, it really IS best to take it ALL out, including the hidden dairy. That said, if you take out *most* of the dairy and see a difference, then you have a direction to go. It does take about 2 weeks for all the dairy to get out of your system and thus out of your breast milk in order to give her milk that has no dairy proteins in it at all. If you started today you could give it till Christmas and see how it goes.

[scarlettsmom]

Hi there,

You've gotten some great advice.  Just wanted to say that it sounds similar to what we went through with my dd2...even with the OALD.  We did end up with blood in her diapers though too, which was a clear tip off.

Just wanted to offer some (((hugs))).  I would drop the dairy if you could, as Deb said, even if you drop. Just obvious dairy first see some sort of improvement then you could decide whether to drop all.  I went full force, but G was SOOOO intolerant to almost everything.  I think you would see some change in a week.  We saw improvement right away.  Although rule of thumb is thAt it can take 2 weeks to get out of your system Nd then an additional 2 weeks to get completely out of your LOs.
 

[~Emma~]

Argh. Even more confused now. Just been to the Docs with her for her 6 week check ( even though she's 8!). I brought it up with him and he was great actually. Seemed reasonably knowledgable on the topic and even mentioned that a friend of his did an elimination diet. He advised to hold off. He said the eczema patch is too small to warrant an allergy/intolerance and that the other blotches on her skin are just over active sebacious glands. He said at the moment I should put the icky nappies down to her bout of illness a few days ago and it should clear up. Obviously though he had no input on the lack of naps around the place!

 

[deb]

Another two cents from me then: Unlike meds, which really go best with a doctor's OK, there's no real need to ask a doctor before deciding to go off dairy. It's something you can do on your own. And if it helps her settle and finally nap properly, that'd be a nice benefit.

You could watch the nappies for another day or two before making a decision, and then if no change by the time there really should have been one, this can be Plan B.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I decided to drop obvious dairy before Spencer was even born (Masyn was intolerant, figured #2 might be as well) but never did a total elimination.  She always had a few ezcema patches on her body and would get super consitpated all the time. At around 6 months I stopped BF and switched to soy formula and realized what a difference it made, no ezcema, normal poops...and when I tried to intro dairy (yogurt) it started up again.  We still try dairy every few months just to see, so far no go, but she has been able to tolerate some hidden dairy. 

I had never made the connection between consitpation and MPI, but discovered that for some kids that is just the way they go instead of loose stools.  Her other intolerances cause that though, so we just can't win!