Advice for naps

[scucci1979]

I know short naps are developmental. With DD1 she outgrew them at 4.5months of age, but I did a lot of HTTJ. Now with number 2 she has hit the chronic short napping stage. She was giving me two good naps with the aid of a paci. We are on day three with weaning the paci and she seems to be going down easier then before. She is still learning to to suck her fingers. She is a very sucky baby.  Anyhow, she is a tummy sleeper and when I go in her room at the 35 min mark she doesn't even jolt. She slowly turns her head from side to side and wakes up. How can I extend her naps when she does this? I have tried pat shush but she does not respond to it. I use white noise and I have just introduced a lovey.

We are slowly working towards a 3.5hour EASY and her A time is averaging around 1hr and 45 min when she naps well.

[mamatolevi]

Hi hon! I've been following your paci weaning thread a bit. How is it going? I really wished I had weaned it when my DS was that age, but he's 8mo now and I feel it's a bit late.
I don't know what you can really do about the head turning...my DS did the same thing at transitions. He stopped doing it (or stopped waking from it anyways) around 4 or 4.5 months. I know that's probably not very helpful. Does she wake happy from these naps?

[scucci1979]

The paci weaning is very difficult.  She sucks her hands during her A time and sometimes when she falls asleep. She doesn't realize that she can use her fingers to sooth. She wakes up crying. I think she is still tired and can't transition sleep cycles. I try to shush pat but she doesn't respond well. Not sure if I should try W2S. I don't have time to sleep train this time around.   

[~Sara~]

Shh/pat never worked for us to extend naps either.  It was MUCH easier to extend his naps if he never woke all the way up (he short napped from 3-5.5mo).  I used httj for every nap; his room was dark, he was swaddled, and I even shielded his eyes so that there was NO way he could see me.  Understandably, not everyone can do this...and I doubt I will when/if more kiddos come along...but I would say it could hurt to give w2s or httj a shot for a week or two.

When LOs are developmentally short nappers and A times are just fine, etc., etc., then all that's really left to do is to try to extend when you can, send them off to sleep with as little props as possible, and just try to fit in an extra catnap towards the end of the day.  That's really how it goes with LOs who are short nappers.  You just shorten the following A times to prevent OT and it takes a bit of juggling to fit in the Es and what not.  But who knows?  Maybe she'll be one of those who learns to sleep through the transition after only a few weeks.  Some babies can and do learn that quickly.  Others, like my DS, just grow out of it.

I've not been following your paci weaning thread...could you post a link?   I don't know if maybe what you're experiencing with the short naps could be related to that still.

[scucci1979]

I could try HTTJ and W2S for a few weeks. The funny thing is since she is a tummy sleeper, I sometimes don't see her jolt. she just turns her head.    I do shorten her A when she short naps to prevent OT.  The last few days she has been fighting her last nap of the day. She absolutely refuses it and in the end is up for over two hours. I just don't get it! If she had decent naps, she would be fine. 

Here is how today went
wake 7:30am
S 9:20-10:10am
A 10:10-12pm(we were out)
S 12:05pm-2:05pm
A 2:05pm -3:50pm
S 3:50pm-4:45pm(fought nap extension)
A 4:45pm-6:15pm(attemped a CN here but she refused it) By the time she fell asleep it was 7pm. 
She has been doing this for the past three days.

Here is the link to my paci weaning thread: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=182284.0

thanks

[aesop]

Hi Sabs

Perhaps I can share my experience. My 10 week old is also a tummy sleeper and almost always wakes at the 30 min mark. She also turns her head side to side when she wakes and squirms a little and then eventually cry out. Sometimes she would only cry out at the 40/45 min mark or even 1 hr. I think it's the jolts that wake her and she's not able to make the transition back to sleep.

I've tried httj but it worked only once and I suspect she could have slept past the 30 min mark on her own anyway.

w2s doesnt work for us. She wakes up and I have to pat her back to sleep.

I extend her naps by patting her back once I see that she needs help. I shield her eyes with one hand and pat her back with the other..light pats at first and then firmer pats if she cries louder. If she's OT, she would work up a frenzy, I would then try shh..hhh and pat faster to get her to focus, she would usually settle after a while. Once she's calm, I slow down my pats and soften my sh..hhh..and then pat slower and slower and lighter and lighter before I stop, then I leave my hand on her back for a bit while still shielding her eyes.

She goes back to sleep on her own by slowly turning her head side to side again. I only intervene with light pats if I see she's getting frustrated (ie. turning her head constantly or rubbing her face on the mattress). Once I see she's calm and can go back to sleep on her own, I take my hand off and leave the room. The whole process normally takes 15 to 20 mins.

If she's super OT (usually because my mom who is helping me did not manage to extend the previous nap), she screams and screams through the patting, I would hv to carry and pat her till she's drowsy and then put her down again and repeat the process above.

I am hoping I can intervene less as she gets older but this is only way I can extend her naps.

[scucci1979]

Thanks for the suggestion. It is so hard as she doesn't know how to self settle yet.  I am going to give myself two weeks of HTTJ and W2S. If they don't work, then I will have to think of something else. I am hoping she will outgrow these naps when she is closer to 5months.

[scucci1979]

First nap was a bust. I went to HTTJ and it looked like she was asleep, but a minute later she woke up crying.

[scucci1979]

Update: have tried to HTTJ for a few naps, but it didn't get me anywhere.  Will continue to do it Today was awful as she was so OT? She was giving me 30min naps and was fighting each nap. sigh!

when she short naps, I normally reduce her next A by 25min and when I put her down for another nap, she just fights me with tears.

[~Sara~]

Hi Sabrina--sorry that I haven't been around for the past couple of days.  I had a chance to glance through your paci thread, and I got the feeling that she doesn't have a prop issue with the paci anymore.  Do you feel the same way?

Can you describe how you're doing httj, what time you're starting it and when you're ending it?  Also, can you describe her wind down routine and sleeping environment?

I from the first EAS you posted on the 4th, I was actually going to suggest giving her a bit more A time first thing in the AM (maybe only 5-10 minutes more)...just to see if perhaps she was in a UT loop.  But from your last post, it sounds like those 30 minute naps are OT.  Do you think her reflux is bothering her ATM??

Also, how are her nights?

[scucci1979]

I really really hate this stage. I just increased her A now so it is two hours.  She went down pretty easy this morning.  I have changed my wind down b/c I think she was getting OS by her big sister. I know put her in the baby bjorn and walk around the house for 15min. I then go to her room, look out the window for 5min(she smiles here), close the blinds and sing her a song. I put her on her tummy and turn on the white noise. Also, she does have a lovey, but is not attached to it.  Now for HJJTs, I go into her room at the 35 min mark. She is a tummy sleeper so I pressure her arms and legs.  Sometimes I see her jolt but most of the times she turns her head from side to side and begins to wake up. She first fusses then it turns into an escalated cry, like a "get me out of here." I think yesterday was my fault as she woke up at 6am and I didn't put her down until 8:15am. Also, my MIL was over to help out with my toddler and they were playing with Alyssa, putting so many toys in her face. I didn't realize until it was nap time.   Yesterday, I could not get her out of the OT loop.  Sigh! I did put her to bed at 6:45pm.  The funny thing is she is so prone to AP.
I am not sure if reflux is bothering her. She has been arching her back for some feeds.

 There she goes crying now..... 45 mins

[scucci1979]

For the last two days I have been using W2S and HTTJ. Her first nap was 1hr and 20 min. Second was 1.5 hrs and third was 1hr. Not sure if the increase in A time helped or b/c she has a cold.

[scucci1979]

Here is an update: This morning nap was 2.5hour with me shush patting for 20 min. Second nap was 25min. Used the same A as the first!

[mamatolevi]

Oh, too bad about the short second nap, but it really does sound like things have improved a bit. Does she still have a cold?

[scucci1979]

She is much better now. I am going to try to keep working on these naps-when I can.    her first A is now around 2hrs and 10min.  Still trying to figure out the what is the right A for her. Her CN is another issue, as she constantly fights it.

I have noticed that when I stir her at the 25min mark, she will wake up 5 min later. Am I stirring her too early/late? Am I putting her down too late?