What am I doing wrong?? 10 wk old resisting wind down all together! *long post

[rumecosa]

I posted some of my situation on the EASY boards and haven't gotten any replies,  so I figured I'd try and get some answers about my LO's nap issues, because I'm at the end of my rope! 

I have a 10 wk old LO who is touchy/grumpy.  He gets overstimulated very easily, but I stopped swaddling a couple of weeks ago, because he's always hated it (grumpy baby) and he started teething and wants his hands up at his face ALL the time. Whenever I try to swaddle him, he gets so worked up that it's like we're moving backwards with our naps.  So I started trying to really get him on a 3 hr EASY this week, because he was starting to get out of control with the inconsistency.  I tried to have him on EASY from the minute he was born, but he always wants to eat, and there has been a lot of EAES.  Which I think has made him want to nurse before naps, as well as when we wakes up from one.  It's been hard to figure him out, because my first born was angel/textbook, and I feel completely lost with this LO.  Firstly, I would think he was on a growth spurt, so I would feed him whenever he wanted for a couple of days, and then he got sick, and wanted to eat all day because he didn't feel well, and then he started teething super early, which has all rolled into one big snowball effect of AP!  I knew better, but I just kept waiting for a good week to start EASY bootcamp as I call it, and there has yet to be a "normal" week so to speak, and now I have to start it for me just as much as for him. 

Anyway, so yesterday was our first day of being home literally all day and writing everything down.  I have both of Tracy's books, and I'm trying to do everything she says you should, but here is my first problem and I really don't understand it.  I go into my LO's room to start wind down, and i sit in the rocker to try and just relax, and he will be stiff as a board.  So I start to rock and pat him on the back and just talk or sing to him, and he starts fussing immediately.  Nothing  will stop it either...it just escalates until he's crying, and kicking VERY hard, and wiggling so much he almost falls out of my arms.  He obviously isn't "winding down" and I can barely hold onto him, and if I do hold onto him and start pat/shh there in my arms, he eventually will close his eyes and start falling asleep on me, which isn't what I want.  So yesterday when he started doing that, I would just move him directly to his crib and start pat/shh in there since that is where I want him to fall asleep. 

I also get a little lost at this step too, because sometimes he will stop fussing once I put him in the crib, but he looks WIDE awake.  So should I start pat/shh at that point even if he isn't crying to get him sleepy?  I have tried playing with awake times a little bit, and whether I start wind down after 30 minutes of awake time, or if I start it after 1 1/2 hrs, he still does this exact thing every time.  Anyway, I get really confused when he looks so awake when I put him in his crib, because it makes me question whether he was really tired to begin with.  So I'll leave the room, just to see if he'll go to sleep on his own (he never does)  and then go back in once he starts crying (not just fussing)  and at that point I start pat/shh.  It's almost like he has to start crying hard to get the the point where he's tired enough for me to get him to sleep...but if I had him awake and out in the living room, he would be really fussy, so I know he's getting tired.  I also have to cover his eyes for at least half of his naps, because he just can't block out the world to settle down.  But if I try putting his head in the crook of my neck when I'm trying to do wind down he gets really mad, so I can't start it there, I can only start it when he's crying in his crib. 

Also, when he's crying in his crib, and I start pat/shh, should I do it for a full 20 minutes, or until he's really really asleep? or should I stop once he's quiet every time and wait for him to fuss?  I should mention that he sometimes wants his paci to fall asleep (not every time though for some reason) and sometimes he'll fall asleep, spit it out and not wake up, but other times he just keeps waking up every time it falls out, and I don't keep putting it back it, but then he just sucks on his hands like crazy. 

Lastly, I can't get him to take longer than 1 hour naps, which would push his awake time to 2 hours, and he's not ready for that...so I don't know how to extend the naps so we can stretch the time before feeds to get us on a 3 hour easy. 

So, I guess here are all of my questions:

1. What am I doing wrong with the wind down?  I don't know how to get him to relax to get ready for a nap, and I really don't want to start every nap with him crying to get him tired.
2. Should I start pat/shh with him in his crib if he's not crying, but seems wide awake in his crib?
3. Should I do pat/shh until he's really asleep? Or stop after he's stopped fussing and keep going back in?
4. Any ideas on how to stretch that nap out?  He wakes up from EVERY nap crying...even the ones in the past that were 2 hours long...so I never know if he's still tired and if I should do pat/shh until the next feed.

I would appreciate any helpful suggestions or encouraging words if you've had a similar situation!  Thank you so much! 

[~Sara~]

Hi Megan   First of all, I've BTDT with the 1h naps.  That's what my DS was doing when I figured it was time to do something about it...and then we started using the BW techniques.  He also kind of did the same thing with the pacifier.  He never seemed to REALLY need, so I just nipped it in the bud and took it away for all sleep times.  He never really wanted it during the daytime either.

So, really, to preface everything: it takes TIME for a LO to get the hang of EASY.  As much as I wish it were so, there's no one thing that will automatically get everything just so.  It takes you observing his actions, your response, his reactions to what you do, and just plain ol' trial and error.  Don't worry...no one is perfect and there's no one right or perfect EASY routine; simply, just what your LO does and needs to eat well, play well, and sleep well

I don't think he's teething.  Is he drooling more, is that why you say that?  At around 12 weeks, babies' salivary glands start to kick in and they get more adept at putting things in their mouths...are those the kinds of things that you're seeing?

Not all babies like the shh/pat combination that Tracy describes.  Some just like the shh, others like rubbing...this is where that trial and error comes in.  Whatever you do, though, try to stick with it for a few days before changing so that he has a chance to start associating that sound with going to sleep.  Like I said earlier, there's a learning curve on his part, too, as he learns to go to sleep on his own.  If he's been falling asleep on you, it's an adjustment for him.

He's still VERY young, so please don't feel that he should be a 100% independent sleeper by now.  I promise that it's a process that can take a few months.  If it makes you feel any better, most moms I know don't have a fully independent sleeper on their hands until LO is ~6 mo (my DS was swaddled until about that age, too).

I have to ask, is he breastfed or formula fed?  If he's bf, it might take him a little bit longer to be able to last 3h in between feeds.  And regardless of whether he's bf or ff, the first 12 weeks are pretty much one GS after another.

1. What am I doing wrong with the wind down?  I don't know how to get him to relax to get ready for a nap, and I really don't want to start every nap with him crying to get him tired.

When you watch for his tired signs, what time do they usually appear?  Part of a successful wind down is for it to happen at the right time and way.  So, if LO is undertired (UT), overtired (OT), or overstimulated (OS), it might mean that LO fusses more or is harder to get to sleep.

Have you looked at this link before?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0

I would try to swaddle some more, but maybe try it at a different time in the wind down.  Get him more relaxed first, then swaddle, then shh/pat.  Also, make sure the room is dark and try some white noise, too, if you haven't before.  Static on the radio works well.  We use a fan as DS is a spirited sleeper, plus we like the freedom it gives us to do stuff around the house without waking him up.

2. Should I start pat/shh with him in his crib if he's not crying, but seems wide awake in his crib?

No, I would start it on your shoulder, with him swaddled, about 10 minutes or so before he needs to be asleep.  You'll start off by shh/patting until he's almost asleep on your shoulder, transfer him to his crib and shh/pat until he's asleep.  You can keep shushing/patting for those 20 minutes until he's in the deep sleep, or fade out until you're just resting a hand on him to keep him from jolting awake.  Over the next few weeks, he will be able to more of this on his own, and you'll do less of it on you and transfer him more awake to his crib.  Check out this thread if you haven't already:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0

4. Any ideas on how to stretch that nap out?  He wakes up from EVERY nap crying...even the ones in the past that were 2 hours long...so I never know if he's still tired and if I should do pat/shh until the next feed.

Could you post his EAS--not what you're shooting for, but what he's actually doing?  I wonder if maybe his sleep window is just being missed and the A time is off.  Here are some other links that might help in the meantime:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0

Some babies aren't happy nap-wakers, despite how long they've slept.  But let's see if there's anything that jumps out from his routine, okay?

[rumecosa]

Thank you for your response!  You gave me a lot of great links to look at!  Let me go on ahead and answer your questions though!

I don't think he's teething.  Is he drooling more, is that why you say that?

Firstly, I think he might be teething for a few reasons.  There is of course the drool, and the chewing of his hands all the time, but also his bottom from gums have some redness and are a little spongier.  He might not be teething, my DS1 did have all of these symptoms when he started, but he was a much more relaxed baby, so DS2 could not be teething at all.  I did think it was early, but I know it's possible.

 

Not all babies like the shh/pat combination that Tracy describes.  Some just like the shh, others like rubbing...this is where that trial and error comes in.  Whatever you do, though, try to stick with it for a few days before changing so that he has a chance to start associating that sound with going to sleep.  Like I said earlier, there's a learning curve on his part, too, as he learns to go to sleep on his own.  If he's been falling asleep on you, it's an adjustment for him.

He does prefer just patting to shh/patting, and I do try variations of both, usually the shushing more when he's really crying, but I stop the shushing first, and continue with the patting, since that is what's been working.  I do know that he won't be 100% sleep trained at this point, and I don't even mind that...I just am so frustrated with it taking at least 30 minutes every single nap just for me to be able to leave the room, and most of the time I have to go in at least one more time after that.  I know it's all a process, but I wanted to know now if I was doing something wrong, so I could fix it!   

If he's been falling asleep on you, it's an adjustment for him.

One thing I don't understand is, why is he resisting being held in the rocker so much and not before I sit down?  I could carry him all over the house without any fussing but I'll go into his room, change his diaper, close the curtains, turn on the fan (we use one too!)  and sit down, and after about 30 seconds he's fussing and then full on crying.  If he's used to being held to sleep, I thought he would enjoy the sitting?  I've tried rocking too, but because he's so touchy, I try really hard just to sit still, so I don't overstimulate him by rocking. 

I have to ask, is he breastfed or formula fed? 

He is a BF baby, but we do give him formula as well, usually at the end of the day when I feel the most empty, but sometimes just 1 or 2 oz, and then the breast as well so I know he got enough to eat, and can focus on the naps primarily.  I don't want to be putting him to sleep and wondering if he's hungry, because he's ALWAYS sucking on those hands.  Whether he's hungry or not.  He had his hands in his face in all 3 ultra sounds too!     However, no matter what, he wakes up after the first sleep cycle, and its always been at least 2 hours since the last feed, and so I can't get him back to sleep at all, I just end up doing pat/shh until the next feed because he's hungry.  I know this isn't the breast feeding board, but I don't know whether to just get him up and feed him when he wakes up like this or to try the pat/shh for another 30 minutes?  He's clearly sucking on his hands and spits the pacifier out, so I just don't know.

When you watch for his tired signs, what time do they usually appear?

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this, but I don't clock watch, so they happen at different times.  He's a very jerky baby, so it's hard for me to go by that, but I usually try and watch yawns.  They usually happen after 45 min- 1 hr of awake time.

His EASY isn't very consistent right now, so I don't have much of a routine to post.  I'll try and add that as soon as I can!

[rumecosa]

Okay, so here is an EASY routine from Saturday, because yesterday we had to go to a friends house and everything got messed up.  I don't have enough days to post a general one.

First of all, before last week, he was eating every 2 hours, so he would take 30-45 minute naps, and then at some point crash and sleep for 2-3 hours because he was so exhausted from short naps...so I'm only starting our EASY from last friday, because that's when I started writing everything down and when I started really watching the clock and did a good wind down etc.

Wake @ 8:00

E  8:15
A  8:30-9:30 (WD started at 9:30)
S  9:55-10:40 (pat/shh until 11)
E  11:00 (2 oz of formula + breast) 
A  11:10-12:00
S  12:30-1:30
E  1:35
A  1:50-?  (We went to buy our Christmas tree at this time)
S  slept in carseat, woke up at 4:00...probably slept 30 minutes. 
E  4:05
A  4:25-5:00
S  5:35-6:30  ( Not really sleep...woke up every 15 minutes or so)
E  6:30
A  6:50-7:35 
E  8:10  (He was acting really hungry and wasn't going to sleep, so I gave him 3 oz of formula and after that he went right to sleep.)
S  8:15 PM
E  3:00 AM
E  6:00 AM
Awake at 7:30 AM next day.

Hope this helps! 

PS.  Today I tried swaddling him for his first nap and he went down in 5 minutes!  I don't know if I caught him at the perfect tired time or if it was the swaddling, but it gives me some hope! 

[~Sara~]

Hi Megan--sorry that I haven't been online these past couple of days.  How have things been going?

It's true that teeth can start pushing up through the gums before they poke through...perhaps he's experiencing that?  That's lovely news about the swaddle!!  We used it with DS until he was about 6 months old (when he started waking up in the middle of the night for no good reason other than to be reswaddled ).  So, for the time being, if it works as a tool to get him to sleep, then I say use it.  You'll know when the time is right to wean it in the coming months.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by this, but I don't clock watch, so they happen at different times.  He's a very jerky baby, so it's hard for me to go by that, but I usually try and watch yawns.  They usually happen after 45 min- 1 hr of awake time.

With BW, it's true that we tend to go by LO's cues more than clock-watching, but sometimes clock-watching is the only way to get LO on the right routine for him/her.  I did it when DS would suddenly start doing UT naps and I had to try a new A time...that kind of thing.  Then, once I got past habit cues (meaning tired signs he was showing out of habit) and saw what his sleepy cues were with a more age-appropriate A time, I went back to relying on the cues more.  But it's good to have a general idea of what his A time needs are.  I learned the hard way NOT to put DS down at the first yawn...sometimes babies just yawn (just like us adults).  This gets more true the older they get.

At 2.5 months of age, most LOs are doing an A time of about 1h20 (see here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0).  While it's true that not every A time HAS to be the same, you will notice that there's probably a general pattern that your LO like to follow.  Some babies like a shorter AM A time and handle more as the day goes on.  Others like more first thing, doing less as the day goes on.  Some like short, long, short...lol, you get the picture.  So, part of all of this is figuring out what your LO likes.

I would say, though, that he's giving you short naps after 45min-1h A times because he's undertired for his nap.  He's only been awake for a little bit and so his body sleeps a shorter amount of time because it takes less naptime to recharge...if that makes sense.  Plus, if he's going to sleep undertired (UT), it could explain why he's fighting naps.  However, if he's awake for too much longer beyond an A time right around there, he'll become overtired.  Naps will still be short and he could still resist them.

Remember that A time is actually Awake Time--it includes eating, activities, and the wind down routine.  Basically, it's eyes open to eyes shut.

Looking at the routine you posted, I would have shortened his A times and started his wind down at ~1h10 into his A time (with the goal of having him asleep at ~1h20).  And if he does short nap, in order to prevent OT, what you'll want to do is shorten the following A time.  Usually 20-30 minutes less is a good guess.

So...who knows?  Maybe the swaddle was the trick and things have been going well!!  Hope that's the case.  And again, I'm sorry it took me so long to respond.

[rumecosa]

Well Sara, thank you for your reply again, and now I have a whole new round of questions, because some things got better and others got worse. 

Things in general have been a little better.  I'm able to get him down for a nap in about 15 minutes with a proper wind down, so I'm not as stressed out about getting him asleep.  I think the swaddling was definitely the answer there, because where he used to kick and flail when we sat down, now he can't and he takes less time to melt into my chest.

The problem is, he won't sleep longer than 45 minutes now.  Now that I can get him to sleep, he wakes up and can't transition into the next sleep cycle.  I've sat there and watched him, and it isn't really the jolt that wakes him up...or at least he doesn't seem like he jerks and scares himself.  Instead, I can see him go from deep sleep to his eyes moving under his eyelids, and then all of a sudden they just pop open and he's wide awake.  He sits there for maybe 1 minute like that, and then starts trying to get his arms free, and when he can't he starts fussing for 1 more minute, and if I don't do something he starts crying.  I have tried extending the nap by doing shh/pat until he's asleep again, but it takes a full 20 minutes, and he only sleeps for another 40 minutes.  I have tried to wait and see if he'll just cry a little and go to sleep, and he doesn't, he just gets really mad. 

I've tried playing with awake times, and watching him for sleep cues, and I have learned that he's extra fussy about going down for a nap if he's UT, so I'm pretty sure that was my problem before.  When he's OT he seems to just cry through the whole wind down process, but once I block out stimulation by nestling his face in my neck, he settles down pretty quickly and I can't get him in the crib before he's fallen asleep on my shoulder.  I just don't know how to get him to take a longer nap.  I've tried just letting him take the short ones all day, and try as best I can to stay on EASY, but he's really overtired in the evenings then.  He really resists taking an evening nap all together.  I have to fight him for that last catnap every evening. 

I have decided to try and clock watch to get him on a routine, but I'm not sure how to do that if he's taking such short naps.  I can feed him on time, and put him down for a nap when I'm supposed to, but if he won't sleep long enough, then when should I feed him?  Should I always feed him upon waking so he knows the routine is to eat when he wakes up?  Or should I wait until the actual time he's supposed to be eating so it's still a 3 hr routine? 

I've noticed he is waking up more in the middle of the night the past couple of nights, and he had short naps and no long one at all on both of those days, so I think it is affecting his night time sleep too?  I don't think it's a growth spurt, but it could be. 

Sorry it took me so long to respond, and thank you again for your help!