13mo Long NWs, and in the midst of 2-1 trans - Help!!

[jackman]

I'm at a complete loss as to why DS has these long NWs of 2-3 hrs every so often. I know it indicates an increase in A time somewhere in your routine, but I just can't believe it as it wasn't that long ago that I felt I had increased it. We are also in the midst of the 2-1 and it is killing us with our long days. DS isn't a consistent STTN baby. Can do it at least 2-3 times every two weeks or so as it seems. I think we are stuck in a OT/UT loop.

DS for the most part is an independent sleeper unless he is ill or teething. No night feeds.

Here is our EASY:
6:10-6:45am WU (varies based on night's sleep) + bottle
8:00am Breakfast
9:30am Snack
10:15/10:45am Nap #1 (usually 1.5hrs)
12/12:30pm Lunch
2:00pm Bottle
2:45/3:15pm Nap #2 (45min, just last week cut it to 30min as it took a long time for DS to settle for BT)
5:15pm Dinner
6:00pm Bath
6:30pm Bedtime routine of bottle and cuddles with lullabies
6:45pm in cot and falls asleep by 7/7:15pm

Last week I had been trying to push DS' A times to get first nap longer than 1.5hrs, but I might have gone too far as since Sat. I had to scale way back and first A was around 3.5hrs with second A right around 3-3.5 and last A to BT was the same as second for a couple of days. Today we followed the EASY listed above (DS woke at 6:15am) with the difference being the second nap of 1hr as I thought DS needed xtra sleep due to long NW. DS has been very clingy and whiny since Sat. I know the next question will be: is it teeth? I don't think so as I had been medicating and it really didn't seem to make a difference.

Also, I would really like to have new set naps as we did it since DS was around 7mo and it worked so well. First nap was around 9:30am and second nap was around 2:30pm. I just wonder if I pushed the naps out accordingly based on new A times that DS can tolerate. Perhaps I should post this part of my thread on the naps board? If yes, just let me know and I'll do it.

TIA and sorry for long post

[jackman]

Just updating for anyone who is reading. Medicated last night in case it was teeth. We had several NWs and even an EW that didn't last very long. DS was able to fall back to sleep quickly. Woke this morning at 6:40am and did a 4hr A time. DS slept for 2hr20min!!! Hoping he is recovering from his OT. I'm too afraid to try one nap day, so will shoot for a CN of 20min. Hope DS didn't get too much day sleep.

Anyone have an answer for me on why DS sometimes does long NWs?? Is OT the culprit or not enough A time?

[babybarr]

Hi, it's me!  Will be back later as promised, I may consider moving this to TS though as your LO is nearly a year and we may get a few more replies, I will have a think!

If you just drop in a quick reply to this then I'll be able to find you easily later on

[jackman]

Hi Laura! Thanks so much for taking a look.

We had another night with multiple NWs. Will add more later as well since I have school run.

[babybarr]

Ok so a couple of questions...
What do you do when he wakes in the night?
Is he upset or will he just amuse himself?
How many nights would you say he is awake like this?
Have you been keeping a record of day sleep and whether it affects his night?
Have you tried an ealier bedtime and if so what happens?
Have you done any one nap days?

Sorry that ended up being more than a few

Interesting that he slept a good nap with a longer A time.  I think perhaps doing a longer first A time and a short catnap of around 20mins for a week and see what happens?

[jackman]

Ok so a couple of questions...
What do you do when he wakes in the night?

I will hold back and see if he will resettle himself. Half of the time he does and the other half, he screams bloody murder. When he screams, I'll go in and lay him back down as he will be standing and try to talk to him quietly. Do this a few times and if after a few min he is still screaming, I'll pick him up and cuddle and then put him back down to see if he'll settle. The long NWs he won't have any of it, so most of time he'll be laying next to me. When he is just about to fall asleep again, I'll lay him in his cot and let him drift off on his own. 

Is he upset or will he just amuse himself?

Again it's half of the time he is upset and half of the time he just rolls around.

How many nights would you say he is awake like this?

I keep a log of our days and over 2.5 weeks, he has had these long NWs 5 times.

Have you been keeping a record of day sleep and whether it affects his night?

Yes been keeping record and I thought I had it figured out by the total amount of day sleep to avoid NWs, which was 2hrs15min tops, but that went to pot over the last week. Now it seems it might be around 2hrs? But I think after a few days, Jack gets OT with cutting naps. It could be the last A time to bed as he always fights. Why I really would like set nap and BT.

Have you tried an ealier bedtime and if so what happens?

Always try to get him to bed earlier and he fights like the ens. Thus, ends up OT by the time he falls asleep.

Have you done any one nap days?

No. Too scared. Could have been a one nap day yesterday, but ended up giving him a 20min CN after 3.5hrs A time. Went down no prob. Then thought A time to BT should be 2.5hrs tops. Well, he fought me and ended up at 3hr A time. Had one NW around 11pm. Then one at 3am that lasted until nearly 5am. I ended up giving him a bottle thinking maybe he was hungry as he didn't drink as much milk as he usually does and he drank 3.5oz, went back to sleep within min. UGH. No rhyme or reason!!!

Interesting that he slept a good nap with a longer A time.  I think perhaps doing a longer first A time and a short catnap of around 20mins for a week and see what happens?

Did that last week and it came crashing down by Sat. Had to reduce A times and we are just getting back up to 4hrs.

Hope I answered your questions. It might be teething Laura, but can't feel a darn thing in his mouth or see any signs. Thanks.

[babybarr]

Look, things are pretty hectic for me at the mo.  I haven't forgotten you if I am not around much for the next few days.

The screaming sounds OT - I would do 2 long naps for a few days - so 1.5hr in the am and 1hr in pm and a later bedtime and see what happens?

So nap 10am -11.30am
nap 2.30-3.30pm
bed 7.30pm

[jackman]

No problem Laura. Just appreciate the help. Will do as you suggested. The nap at 10am is assuming he wakes at 6? Or does it even matter between 6-7? Just worried that he'll wake sooner than 1.5hrs. I did under 4hrs today (3hr45min) since he had bad night and he did 1.5hrs. I'll give him an hour nap this pm around 3:30pm as that will be 3hrs since he woke from am nap (similar to your suggested time below).

Tomorrow will try your set nap times and update. If you don't answer, I won't worry. Just hope things settle for you and again appreciate the help.

[babybarr]

How was today?  Yes all your assumptions on timings were right - great minds eh?!  I would do a 10am nap regardless of wake up....

Glad you at least got a good nap this morning.  Fingers crossed for tonight!

[jackman]

Thanks for asking how things are going despite all the stuff going on at home for you. The second nap on Wednesday was only 40min as I think the dog woke Jack. He did 3hr15min until BT and we had a good night considering Jack only had one NW at 11 and it was for a few min. He then slept until 6 or 7am. I'm not sure as he was sooo quiet. I put him down this morning at 10:30am instead of 10am as I thought if he woke at 7, then he wouldn't be tired. Well he woke after 1hr10m. I tried to get him back to sleep for a good 25min. Kept falling asleep in my arms and I would put him back in the cot and he would wake screaming. Jack woke very crabby!!! It's nearly 2:30pm here on the West Coast of US and will put him down as you suggested and see how well he sleeps. I may just let him sleep as long as he would like but still get a BT close to your 7:30pm suggestion.

I'm starting to wonder if it isn't teeth more and more Laura as Jack isn't eating or drinking milk very much. Will be medicating tonight again.

Hope things aren't too crazy for you over the next few days. HUGS!!! Thank you!!

[babybarr]

At least you had a better night.  I do think he does sound a bit OT and so as long naps as possible should help.

Medicate tonight for sure - and if he wakes remedicate.  Have you tried meds before naps?  What teeth does he have already?

[jackman]

Well Jack woke after 30min yesterday afternoon, but I was able to put him back to sleep and he slept for another 20min. BT was at 7:30pm and he woke 30min into sleep (OT) and took me nearly 20min to get him back to sleep. After that little bit, didn't hear a peep from him until 5:30am (stirred a bit) and then he finally woke at 6:30am. So again a good night with only one NW.

Yes, when I suspect teething I will medicate before naps and BT. He has 6 teeth right now (4 on top and 2 on bottom). Been feeling around in his mouth, but nothing!! He isn't really drooling either.

Will stick with your suggested times today. I might just have to accept long days with no nap cutting as I don't think Jack can handle it. Gets OT too easily?? Hope you are having a good day. Thanks.

 

[babybarr]

I might just have to accept long days with no nap cutting as I don't think Jack can handle it.

I think at this stage that sounds like a good idea.  Perhaps once he's a bit more caught up you can try the cutting again.

Keep me posted.

[jackman]

Hi Laura,
Not sure if you are checking, but wanted to give you a small update. Yesterday (Sat) Jack took his nap at 10am even after an EW at 5am (was able to get him back to sleep for another hour and 15min) and he slept for 3hrs!!!! So I attempted a one nap day. Put him to bed at 5:45pm and hope that he would be asleep before or by 6pm. I was successful at that; however we had lots of NWs and one was around 9pm that lasted for 45min. Not sure if he was hungry at 9pm as he had a huge lunch and dinner was smaller than usual since it was hard to fit meals in with the really long nap. So I gave him a bottle at 9pm tho he didn't drink much. The other NWs I think he was just OT?? Thoughts? Jack finally woke at 7am this morning which was a relief as I thought he would wake at 5am with a 6pm BT. However he didn't STTN.

We now know what a one nap day is like, but I'm certain it could go a bit better if I could pinpoint the A times for Jack. His first A time was around 3:45, yet I'm thinking it is longer as Jack surely wouldn't sleep 3hrs on a small A? Perhaps he was catching up from all his OT last week? Last A was nearly 5hrs.

Have any ideas on set times for one nap day? I'm sure 11am or noon is better suited right? Been looking at different routines available for 13+ babes to get timing of meals just right.

Hope things are going well for you at home. TIA.

[babybarr]

5hrs is def a looooong A time for an 11.5mth old, but that is a whopping nap, so he could've actually been (dare I say it...) UT?  If you look at his day as a whole - he woke around 6.15am, he went back to bed in the eve at 5.45pm (that is an 11.5hr day) minus the 3hr nap, so an 8.5hr day compared to about a 10hr day - would that be right?  I completely understand why you did early bed etc, but just something to bear in mind perhaps?

Let me know how you go tonight and what you decide for tomorrow