NEW and new to EASY...help me pls!!

[joyfulgirl]

Hi All

I am new, posted on the Intro board. My LO is 6 months old and really has no routine. I am a FTWM and I bring him with me to work b/c there is a daycare there. I am trying to get him on an EASY schedule but his naps are very short 20-30 mins so I am having a hard time. By the time he wants his bottle he is ready to sleep. He barely sleeps in daycare. Any little noise wakes him. It is also very bright in the room.

Here is my ideal schedule and what the daycare would want as a schedule as well....

6:30-wakeup, reflux meds (can't eat for 1/2 hour after)
7am-bottle
8am-leave for daycare (he usually sleeps in the car 30 min)
9am-fruit and cereal
10:30am-nap
11:30am-bottle
12pm-veggie (i can't give veggie at night, he's too gassy)
1:30pm-nap
3:30pm-bottle
4:45pm- pick up from daycare (sleeps in car)
5:45pm-cereal
7:30 bottle and bed


i just dont know how to do it when he take a short nap! Any help is appreciated... He does have a sleep association with the bottle I realize so I know I need to break him of that habit...where do I start...and, yes I do have the BW book but I think I need to reread it!

[Chicane]

Hi there - I've got to run but just wanted to let you know I've seen you post and will try to get back to you later today or tonight.

In the meantime have a look at the links here
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164034.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52283.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63275.0

xx

[Chicane]

Hi love,

So, you've given me your ideal routine...but what is his actual routine at the moment? I can't work with the ideal until I know what is actually happening...

How is the reflux? Is it totally under control?

My son is not in daycare, but the way I understand it is that you tell the daycare what the routine is and they follow your requests...I also find it hard that their nap room is so bright and would really insist they do something about that. Its ridiculous to expect any baby to sleep in a really bright room (don't get me wrong I am actually not an advocate for total black out but i cant sleep in a bright room so I can't see how a LO could either)

So, let me know what's happening now and we'll go from there...in the meantime the average awake time for a 6 month old is 2 hr 25 mins to 3 hrs towards the end of the month. Day sleep more often than not consists of 2 long naps of 1.5-2 hrs each and a CN (cat nap) pf 30-45 mins. Its around this age the CN starts to be dropped.

When you get a short nap you need to try and extend it using shh/pat...you may need to find what method works best for you. I can see that one of your problems is finding a carer at day care who has the time and inclination to try and extend his naps...I am not sure what you can do about this other then to sit down and have a frank discussion with your carers. The other thing you could think about is taking some time off work to concentrate on teaching him to be an independent sleeper - probably not an ideal or simple solution though.

Its really hard being a FTWM and trying to sleep train...is there someone you can enlist to help you? Mum? DH? Friend family member? The thing that is going to make it work is consistency in method...

How are his nights?

You're in a tough position, am feeling your pain, let me know what you think about what I've posted and we can take it from there...we will try our hardest to find some workable solutions for you

hugs
xo

PS if you haven't already it would be advisable to get a copy of Tracy's books

[joyfulgirl]

sorry i wasnt able to write back sooner...

i was home with him on the 10th and this is what we did:

415 7 oz 430-630 sleep
630 prevacid
8am cereal and banana
1030-1135 nap
12 6 oz
1230 squash
2-245 nap
315 5 oz
415-530 nap
545 a little cereal
7 7 oz
720 sleep
11:15 5.5 oz

that was a great day. i did not use the bottle as a sleep aid. he was upset but he was able to sleep.

but here's the problem...no consistency yet. the days after were a mess. granted i think he is teething.

usually he wakes between 6-7 and gets a bottle right away
then at 8 prevacid
then ride to daycare
9 am food
and then they cant get him to nap
and then another bottle and then he falls asleep for 20 mins around 1
then vegetable
bottle and then i pick him up.

my questions is what to do at home if he wakes from a nap early and cant get him to back to sleep. for example he if he takes bottle at say 8am and then cereal at 9 nap at 10 but wakes at 1030. then he has an 1.5hr or so until his next bottle but by that time he will be tired.

i am reading the babywhisper answers all your questions or something like that. i love this book. i was able to sleep train my daughter in no time with it but i was not working with her. makes me so sad that i cant do the same for him

[Chicane]

Hi love

I need to know more about the relfux - is it totally under control? Are there some feeds where he is affected and others where he is okay?

Its really hard to establish a routine when they are suffering from reflux as they need so much more help and comfort.

Take a look at the sample routines here for your age group
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164253.0

The average awake time for your age is 3 hrs towards the end of the month. You first A time is 4 hours - way too long and he was probably overtired which can lead to short naps or difficulty settling. Ideally you want to aim for naps of at least 1.5 hours.

You've done marvelously to stop the feed to sleep - that is a huge achievement, keep working on that.

Its takes time to get consistency, its a matter of practise as well as observing signs. Its hard for you because of the day care situation. If possible it might be a good idea to sit down with his carers and tell them what you are trying to do and ask for their help. They need to stick to the routine as best they can, in fact, they are obligated too.

If you get a short nap at home and you cannot resettle using shh/pat or PUPD. then move onto the next thing, shorten the next A time and bring the feed forward. I was always a bit more relaxed on the feed timings as getting naps right was more important to me...let me know if you want more specific advice on that and I can ask someone else to come on.

You are doing really well, truly. Its going to take time, every baby is different (did you do the quiz? What type is he?) and you will work him out soon...

x

[joyfulgirl]

ugh i am so frustrated...we are back at daycare and work (for me) and they only can get him to nap for 20 mins today!!!!

his reflux is under control as much as the doctors will allow. he is on prevacid in the am and zantac mid afternoon and nighttime. the fact that he is drinking more than 3 oz to me says that it's getting much better b/c about a month ago he barely drank. plus he sleeps well at night. only wakes 1x if at all.

yesterday went like this:

530 am wake and meds
6 bottle
6:30-8:15 sleep at home (i went into work late)
8:45-9:15 NAP IN CAR
9:30 arrive at daycare
10:00 breakfast cereal and banana
10:30 7 oz
1:00-1:45 NAP
2:45 6 oz
5:00 pick up from daycare
5:15-6 NAP IN CAR
6:50 9 oz and bed

today went like this:
2:15 8oz
7:45am wake up and meds
8:30 4.5 oz
9:00-9:45 NAP IN CAR
10:30 cereal
11:00 bottle
1:00-1:20 NAP

I go in everyday to get his meds and his caregivers jumped at me that he doesn't sleep there. WHAT am I supposed to do?

Chicane thank you so much for your replies, please keep 'em coming!

[Chicane]

HI love

Oh dear! I'm sorry you are having a hard time.

When the day care says he wont sleep do they have any ideas why? Is the room to bright, too noisy? How long is the wind down they do with him? Is it the same as what you do at home? When he wakes up after 20 mins at day care what do they do to try and resettle him? Have you talked to them about what you are trying to achieve?

the thing is in order to teach him how to become an independent sleeper and to change the sleep habits he already has you need consistency, so you need day care to be on board with that. It might be hard for a while for them and you but it will be easier in the long term for everybody if the effort is made now.

Look, I don't have any experience with day care but so I don't know a lot but I want to ask a very frank and direct question...are you happy with the day care? Because if you have any misgivings about the service you are receiving then it might be time to have a rethink about your other day care options. Ideally, you want people who are willing to work with you and your baby. You are not there to put him to sleep, its their job to work out how to do that and to try their best to do it. I am going to ask some mods with day care experience to come on board and see if there is advice they might have.

Perhaps you could print out some of the sample routines and show them what kind of day you are aiming for. And ask them direct questions such as what they do for wind down, to resettle when he wakes early....

going to get some more eyes on this

sending you big hugs

x

PS I will be away from 17 Dec until 10 Jan. My co-mods will take over and be here to support you while I am away, i will try to check in when I can.

[skatty]

Can they put him down for his nap earlier, daycare is much more stimulating than home. I am not sure what your options are but maybe a home daycare provider would be more suited to him while he is so young? I know that may not be possible and if it is not I think you are going have to be a bit of a bolshy mum, they are getting paid and in no way is it reasonable that such a small baby just gets a 20 min nap in a day!

[joyfulgirl]

the thing is, i work in the same facility as the daycare, and i am not paying anything for it, as my husband is currently unemployed and we are currently going thru bankruptcy. we are in a tough spot, so i need to make this work.

[skatty]

I imagine your DH is busy job hunting but is there any chance your DS could do reduced hours for now so he can settle in slowly at daycare?

[Tweakster]

his reflux is under control as much as the doctors will allow. he is on prevacid in the am and zantac mid afternoon and nighttime. the fact that he is drinking more than 3 oz to me says that it's getting much better b/c about a month ago he barely drank. plus he sleeps well at night. only wakes 1x if at all.

My son had silent reflux and he was a pretty decent night sleeper.  The days were horrific.  DH and I saw different kids (he did most of the NF because the days were...horrific lol).  He didn't nap properly until 7.5 mths and that was after an increase in Prevacid, a change in the dosing as well as adding rice cereal to his bottles as a thickener.  Is your LO spitting up loads?  6 mths is a common time for reflux to flare and cause problems.  They are growing, becoming more mobile and also teething wreaks huge havoc on things.  What dosage is your LO on of the Prevacid?

Remember he may be eating more because his tummy is bigger, he's eating to soothe the burn if reflux is not fully controlled.  Eating more does not necessarily mean his discomfort level is better.  Sleep is a real indicator of how comfortable they actually are.

He is still so young, and my LO went to daycare at 12 mths and although luckily he napped well, he was over reflux and off the Prevacid at that point.  Your LO is still growing out of reflux so they have to understand that.  It is also their job to get him to sleep.  Yep it's true.  It's not your job to provide them with a baby that sleeps!  In a perfect world sure, but really, they need to use the skills that they have and put them to good use for your son.

How many naps are they prepared to do with him?  Are they saying that they will force him onto a certain nap routine or is it flexible?  When do the other babies his age nap there? 

On your first day posted up there I think that car nap so close to the first nap would make him UT and then his next nap is way too late then creating OT.  It's going to create a really bad UT/OT loop.

Can you get him to bed earlier?

(((hugs))) it sounds like a really tough situation