5mo cries during and after BF

[mymay1]

Hi everybody
My LO is nearly 5mo (7.2kg/15.9lbs) and I breastfeed him (no formula).
He is on a 4hrs. E.A.S.Y now (we started E.A.S.Y when he was born).
I used to give him 1 side each meal.
In the last few days, he started crying 5-10 mins after the begining of the meal.
I started giving him the other side as well and 5-10 after he started crying again.
(A meal took him 20-30mins from 1 side before).
he'll suck a few times and cry.

Yesterday after "dinner" I gave him a formula and he ate 200ml!
I never had problems with milk supply before...

Any ideas why I don't have enough for him?
Any ideas of how to combine BF with formula?

I love BF... wouldn't want to give that up but I don't want him to be hungry...

Thanks!
May.

[~ Vik ~]

Could he be teething?  The pressure from sucking can really cause pain when los are teething - might even explain him taking the bottle, as it's a different sucking action and might not have hurt as much.  Have you tried giving pain meds about 30m before a feed to see if that makes a difference?

Any reflux at all?

Here are a couple of links that you might find helpful:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=65905.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=178500.0 (you certainly do not *need* to combo feed if that's not what's right for you, but thought I'd give you some more information
"My baby fusses or cries during nursing - what's the problem?" http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/fussy-while-nursing.html

[mymay1]

Thanks for thr reply.
He has a light reflux - recieves 7mg of Losec a day. But this isn"t new...
As for teething - I don't feel anything in his mouth but I guess it might be.

Yesterday and today he ate (bf) the first 2 meals of the day without crying (this is the time I'm more full) and during the oter 2 meals he cried and after eating from both sides I gave him formula...

Maybe it's time to start with solids??

[~ Vik ~]

Could his reflux meds need adjusting?  I don't have any BTDT experience with reflux, but I know from reading on the boards that dosages are weight sensitive - if he's been on the same dose for a while he may need it increased.

Re: teething, teeth can cause pain moving beneath the surface of the gums before you ever even get a hint that they're there.  The only way really to know is to try giving pain meds or teething gel about 15-30m before a feed and then see if it helps.

If you think that it might be a supply/fullness issue, there are things you can do to help.  Remember though that supplementing with formula can affect your supply further.  Because breastmilk is produced on a supply-and-demand basis, supplementing with formula (or solids for that matter) can impact supply because your baby is eating but your body doesn't *know* that it needs that food, kwim?  That's fine if your goal is mixed feeding, which many moms do successfully, but if your goal is to continue with ebf then you might want to take steps to help, kwim?  Did you have a read through the FAQ links I gave?

With solids, the WHO recommends that solids be started at 6mo as that is when babies tend to be developmentally ready.  Some babies are ready sooner, but there's more to being ready than just hunger, kwim?  Here's a link with signs to look for:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=36922.0

[mymay1]

Regarding teething - it's strange that he eats fine the first 2 meals of the day (6am, 10am) and complains at the others if it's pain related.
I know that giving formula may affect milk supply (and I'm not ready to stop BF yet) but when he starts crying he won't BF any longer anyhow.

Today he only took buttle after the 3rd meal (120ml) and after "dinner"  (4th meal) I offered him a buttle to make sure he won't go to bed hungry and he didn't want it!

I know that other then weight him before and after a meal there is no way to check how much he is eating but isn't the fact that he is eating 120ml after BF a sign that he doesn't get enough from BF?

As for solids, we are travelling this week for 3 weeks so I've decided not do such drastic changes until we return.

Thanks!

[~ Vik ~]

Regarding teething - it's strange that he eats fine the first 2 meals of the day (6am, 10am) and complains at the others if it's pain related.

Yep, it is a bit unusual, but possible.  When Dylan was teething he'd be fine for some feeds and just awful for others!  The morning feed was usually our best, teething or not, because he was *Hungry* for it.

I know that other then weight him before and after a meal there is no way to check how much he is eating but isn't the fact that he is eating 120ml after BF a sign that he doesn't get enough from BF?

Yes and no...  Although they will refuse the bottle if they're not hungry at all, ebf babies will often continue to feed from a bottle even after they're full.  Milk flows much more easily (and often quickly) from a bottle than it does from the breast - milk just flows into their mouths, while they have to put in much more effort at the breast.  So even though he ate 120mL, he might have only *needed* 60mL, kwim? 
Here is an outside link with more information on how to tell if your lo is getting enough milk:  http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/enoughmilk-older.html

[mymay1]

I guess I'll have to wait to see if this is teething or not.

BTW - the last 2 nights he's sleeping better and wakes up about 40min. later than before (which is excatly what I've been trying to get him to do with no luck so far).

As for formula - maybe I should give him just 60mL each time and see if he is relexed after it.

Thanks for replies!

[*Heather*]

Hi!  I had the same problem with my son at that age.  He is now 11.5 months. 

He would nurse only one side.  Sometimes only for 2 minutes on a good feed, sometimes only 2 sucks!  Then burst into tears.  I would put him on the other breast and the same thing would happen.  We would both end up frustrated and near tears almost every feeding!  In hindsight, I had a couple things going on.  He was constipated from the doctor putting him on solids too early (barley cereal did NOT go well and it tooks us several weeks to get back on track...I dumped all solids and went back to just breastfeeding).  So, we fixed that.  But we still had the problem.  Just not as bad.  I don't think it was his teeth, but I could be wrong.  I kept checking and there was nothing while all this was going on.

But what I did in the end was pure persistence.  I never gave him formula.  I only gave him the breast and only at the "right" times to be on EASY.  He was fed at the same time EVERY day.  I changed two things -- 1) I used to lie down with him, but changed to sitting up; and 2) I bounced him back and forth between breasts, over and over and over.  Sometimes for 1/2 hour or so.  Just tried as hard as I could.  Usually we still ended up both upset.  But I just kept doing it and never gave him formula.  He was gaining weight like a crazy little man.  It eventually worked and here we are, trying to decide when to start weaning!    In the end, after fixing the constipation, and as strange as it sounds, what I think happened was that he was so hungry he didn't want to "work" for he hindmilk (it gets thicker as they drink, right?).  So, I would start on one side, he would drink all the foremilk, I would switch to the second breast and he would drink all the foremilk and then the hindmilk.  Then, I would switch him back to the first breast to finish the hindmilk.  Does that make sense? 

Maybe if he's a big, growing boy he just doesn't want to "wait"?  Just a shot in the dark...Not sure if it helps...

[~ Vik ~]

I only gave him the breast and only at the "right" times to be on EASY.  He was fed at the same time EVERY day.

Just wanted to add a little caution to this - although it can work very well for some moms, when breastfeeding it's really important to follow cues and not just watch the clock.  Lots of things can impact milk supply (how much/what you ate, how much sleep you got last night, stress, periods, etc.) and watching the clock doesn't take those things into account.  Baby whispering and EASY is all about listening to your baby, watching their cues, and providing them with a predictable series of events (the E-A-S) but it's not a schedule.  I completely agree with starting the day by feeding at the same time every day (I always used to wake Dylan in the mornings to feed and start our day off right) if that's what's right for you, but if your lo is showing clear hungry signs 15 minutes before he's *supposed* to be fed then it's important to follow those cues, kwim?

I bounced him back and forth between breasts, over and over and over

This is called switch nursing, and is fantastic!  It works especially well when baby loses interest in one breast or gets sleepy at the breast   It's great for increasing lower milk supply too!

If you want to stop formula supplements it's important not to do it suddenly - your breasts don't know that your lo needs that extra milk and they aren't producing enough now.  Formula supplements have to be weaned gradually - see http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=178517.0 for more details

[*Heather*]

I didn't want to overcomplicate it, but yes, I agree EASY is all about listening/responding to the child's signals.  It was usually give or take 15/30 minutes either way on his EASY routine.  ie.  if he usually ate at 1pm, it would usually be anywhere from 12:30 to 1:30 that he usually nursed that feeding.