Author Topic: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?  (Read 3066 times)

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Offline *Liz*

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What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« on: January 02, 2011, 19:08:46 pm »
Megan is MSPI but she always continued to have blood and mucous from time to time so we have been suspicious of gluten.

I need to crank up her solids and would so prefer to feed her what we eat if I can at all, so I want to do a sensible gluten trial. Probably at 9 mths or so. But how much and what should I give her? I really would like to be clear about whether she has an issue or not. It is always SO hard to figure this stuff out  :-\

Any ideas??

Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2011, 22:02:27 pm »
Listening in. I think you do pasta first but I'm unsure of the timings and what you do next. Kirry just did gluten recently I think.  J is 9 months and I'm going to finish the loaf of GF bread I've got and then give it a go. Will probably be about 2 weeks away.
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scarlettsmom

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 00:30:22 am »
Hi Liz,

Just so I'm clear.....you BF and have eliminated dairy and soy from your diet?  And you want to see if there are any issues with gluten?

Are you eating wheat now?

If you are eating wheat now, I would just start out with a very low ingredient wheat product, like pasta, or even make your own bread.  Introduce it the same way you introduce other solids......a little taste in the morning, keep an eye out for any reactions, and continue from there.

((hugs))). It is hard to nail down these types of things.  Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Offline *Liz*

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 02:39:50 am »
Yes - I BF and I can't eat milk or soy - that helps M a lot but she isn't completely symptom free from that.

And yes I want to do a gluten challenge directly to Megan. I've never eliminated gluten for me, although I often eat very little due to avoiding the dairy and soy.

Will this work? Or will I have to think about the BM for the duration of the trial??

scarlettsmom

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 16:39:46 pm »
I think it will work just fine.  Challenging directly to Megan should yield pretty clear results. I would just take it slow and document everything.
Can you make your own bread?  Or even just a very plain plain biscuit type deal with flour and water?
Just to eliminate any suspicions of other foods if there is a reaction. Make sure to use unbleached flour....:bleached has corn and other stuff in it.

Good luck. I am keeping everything crossed that she passes!!

Any future plans for allergy testing just in case?

Offline donna_issabella

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 23:07:01 pm »
*Loitering with intent here as I have to do the challenge too and am afraid it is positive*

HUGS nad good luck to you and Megan, Liz! The ever guessing game.
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Offline LizzieN

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 00:03:46 am »
Liz as you know I am gluten free now and Eloise said that after a 1 week trial you should see pretty clear improvement...C now poops frequently and is not constipated (even though she was drinking no more water) and as a general rule seems much less gassy...Those are the things I have noticed have improved, so may be something to keep your eyes open for.

Good luck honey
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Offline firsttimemummy

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2011, 07:45:50 am »
We got doctor to refer DS to paediatrician as we wondered the same - although peds were useless (saying its toddler diarrhoea  that children just outgrow!!) they referred us on to dietician who was really useful.  We are doing dairy free elimination and they had considered doing tests for gluten etc (you need to have been taking it for a few months regularly for the test to show the relevant antibodies) but as DS bowels improving me are not doing it.

My brother-in-law is a chef and said if you are cooking for someone who needs gluten free (ie serious allergy/illness) you even have to use a different chopping board/toaster/etc etc in case of cross-contamination (just adding this out of interest, not meaning you have to do this - this is only in very extreme cases, best practice guidelines!!).

Most supermarkets have a free-from section which will have lots of gluten free products.  If you do get a diagnosis from the doctor, etc, in the UK you can get some gluten free food prescribed!
L x Having a bw break from 1 Feb 2012 - if you want to get in touch please send me a pm.  I may not be here but you are all in my thoughts xxxx (probably be back some time)

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Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 01:22:47 am »
Did you do a gluten trial, Liz? What did you do?

I still haven't done one. J was sick for a couple of weeks with tonsillitis then a tummy bug so will do it soon.
Jenny - mama to



Offline *Liz*

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 14:00:56 pm »
No I haven't - she has been so unsettled that it has never been a good time. I actually went the other way and limited gluten in my diet to see if that would help her - and it does. It reduces her wind significantly. But obviously that isn't enough to prove much at all.

I actually spoke to my dietician about this yesterday and she said that even if a child was know to have been sensitive you would look at a trial at this sort of age. She recommended 3-4 days of a 'normal sized portion' of a gluten containing food. Something that you are confident they will eat as the issue with toast, for example, is knowing that they actually ate it rather than made it into million crumbs on the floor. And if they do that then you will end up not being sure if it was the wheat or not when they have a bad run 3 weeks later. She was saying to tray and avoid that whole slow build up to intolerance threshold thing.

What she suggested was Wheetabix for breakfast with her usual milk (I use rice milk for cooking as I still BF).

We are having some major issues with constipation through solids introduction and that is making fair trials very hard.

I have tried oats though and they seem to be OK (apart from this awful constipatio). I gave her porridge made with rice milk.

Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2011, 19:50:30 pm »
You say about just giving the Weetbix for 3 or 4 days but then say [otherwise]
you will end up not being sure if it was the wheat or not when they have a bad run 3 weeks later.
Does it take that long to show a reaction?

We've just done oats. Today was day 4. Yesterday he had a really sore tummy which hasn't happened for a long time (I know if I restrict his diet to certain things then he doesn't get them). But on the 2nd day of porridge he wanted more so I gave him some of mine that had a wee bit of crushed pineapple mixed in. He's had pineapple before (I tried it for 3 days) and I came up inconclusive as to whether it was a goer or not. So I'm hoping it was the pineapple or a coincidence rather than the porridge.
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Offline *Liz*

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2011, 21:18:10 pm »
Sorry - 3-4 days to show a reaction IF a sensible amount has been absorbed ie a decent portion size. Delayed reactions if the amount ingested has been too tiny to affect them - and that is when you see reactions up to 2 weeks later. 3 is too much really, sorry for being confusing  :-*.

I hope it wasn't the porridge. I never know what to do with a sore tummy or a bit of constipation etc. I mean - we all get those from time to time. Blood, mucous, reflux is a clear reaction. But the rest is such a gray area.

Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2011, 21:28:05 pm »
Ok... I get it know!

I don't think it will be the porridge but I'll keep doing it for another few days and see what happens. Then I'll try Weetbix. I think it will be the pineapple and I'm too suspicious of fruit to think it was just a coincidence. The correlation between (most) fruit and sore tummy is quite clear here. He only eats blueberries and bananas. Everything else we've done so far gives him a rock hard tummy that he just screams on and on for. It's ghastly. I've wondered if it's fructose (the GP said he has said he has an irritable bowel - not an official diagnosis of the disease - just a description of what's happening to him - but I know that those with Irritable Bowel Disease often do better on the FODMAP diet which restricts fructose among other things). But then he can eat some vegetables with fructose in them like carrots so I'm a bit lost really but just continue to avoid giving him fruit.
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Offline Buntybear

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2011, 19:38:20 pm »
Sorry Liz missed your thread earlier in the month. FWIW now I would have suggested taking wheat out of your diet first. I am very reluctant to trial anything directly to Olly now in case he reacts severely.

When I took wheat out of my diet over christmas we were the same in that it reduced his wind immediately and so his long NWs ceased! He subsequently had his scratch tests which shows he does have an allergy to wheat - not just an intolerance (which you would assume with the wind).

He is getting retested in 6-9 months and depending on the results will be admitted into hospital to trial the foods.

HTH

PS did you try the rocky road recipe yet? ;)

Offline *Liz*

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2011, 20:34:33 pm »
Gulp - you are right honey - her long NWings have gone since I cut gluten from my diet. And her wind is so much less. I never properly track things and end up never being sure what is causing what.

I haven't made your recipe yet as I can't find any biscuits that seem right  :-\. Did you say Sainsbury's??

Offline Buntybear

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2011, 20:40:41 pm »
I was the same, feel bad now that it took a year to figure it out ::). Not saying it is an allergy for Megan but if you do try it direct keep some piriton handy!

Yes sainsburys but used those biccies as don't have egg. You can have egg right so prob more choice for you?

hrk

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2011, 21:44:03 pm »
WOW, hugs liz.  Great job tracking it down, though!  Hopefully it won't be a long term issue.  I was lurking to see the outcome.  :-)

I am thinking about another gf run; I messed up, and we were seeing the allergist in a few days, so I gave up.  During the one week trials, I was trying to resolve reflux, but now am thinking about trying to completely resolve the skin issues.  Although, as Lizzie says, she saw a clear improvement after 1 week (with regards to dietary/gi issues, right?). 

hrk

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2011, 01:57:38 am »
I should add that we have done two one week trials previously with no difference.  How long did it take to see improvement, Liz?

scarlettsmom

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2011, 02:43:20 am »
Gulp - you are right honey - her long NWings have gone since I cut gluten from my diet. And her wind is so much less.

That's good news Liz!  How are YOU doing with the gluten gone, are you adjusting ok?  Is Megan still doing well?

 :-*


Offline LizzieN

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2011, 05:38:43 am »
Jean,
My LO took a bit longer than a week to improve possibly because I was still having oat porridge which could have been contaminating the results...It hasn't completely improved her wind issues and we still occasionally have rotten nights, but nothing like we were having which is good enough for me at the moment.

Just out of curiosity, at what age can you do scratch testing for gluten?

Liz how is Megan going, is she heaps better?
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Offline *Liz*

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2011, 07:00:02 am »
I think it is 12 mths for scratch tests.

She is better - not passing anywhere near as much wind. Still hard to judge some bits as she is very constipated after solids introduction.

We are both eating porridge and I think that is OK  :).

It is tough without gluten - so far I just avoid it but if this us long term I will need to find some proper alternatives.

Jean - it was more than a week to see enough to notice - more like 2. But slow changes, no immediate stuff.

scarlettsmom

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 16:47:50 pm »

Just out of curiosity, at what age can you do scratch testing for gluten?


Some ped allergists here in the States will test as young as 5/6 months old......

Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2011, 02:45:36 am »
Both mine have been scratch tested at 4months
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Offline LizzieN

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2011, 11:17:19 am »
Ok ladies thank you that is good to know, next time I'm at the doctors I will enquire :)
Liz so glad M is heaps better!!
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Offline Buntybear

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 18:50:12 pm »

Just out of curiosity, at what age can you do scratch testing for gluten?


Some ped allergists here in the States will test as young as 5/6 months old......

Do they do a scratch test for gluten in the states?? Here they won't....

Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2011, 23:15:59 pm »
Day 1 of Weetbix for breakfast! He LOVED it and ate a whole one! Will keep you posted. I think I'm going to start just by doing Weetbix every day for a week and see where that leads us.
Jenny - mama to



Offline LizzieN

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2011, 04:04:16 am »
Good luck Jenny, hope it continues to go well.
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Offline *Liz*

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2011, 08:35:53 am »
Wow Jenny - fingers tightly crosse for you  :-* :-*

We are at a standstill with heavy teething, but a dairy slip the other day has given her less symptoms than it issued to so far so I am starting to get more interested in getting on with t his A's otherwise I'm making life harder than it needs to be for both of us.

Offline EloysH

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2011, 09:11:39 am »
Lizzie we can get them done at 6 months old here.

Offline LizzieN

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2011, 11:25:32 am »
Oh thanks Eloise, I don't really feel like it could be an allergy since her only real symptoms have been constipation and excessive wind (and reflux I guess, but I wonder if that is mainly anatomical as she is still spilling even now), scratch testing doesn't show intolerance do they, just allergy?  Still it may be interesting to inquire for her and see if anything shows up (also not painful like a blood test)....
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Offline Buntybear

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2011, 11:42:32 am »
Hate to say this but Olly's allergies always show up as wind at night. Not sure which TBH - either wheat or egg. Maybe both  ???. That is through my milk. When he had wheat directly he had the vomiting and hives - but not when it was through my milk.

Offline LizzieN

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2011, 10:28:41 am »
Hmm that is interesting because C has never had dairy, soy or wheat straight, it's all been only through my milk.  Thanks for pointing that out sweetie :)
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Offline donna_issabella

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2011, 11:55:25 am »
I have given Anika for 2 nights now Sweet potato whole grain puffs. Not sure if this 1.5 NW / EW from 420-555 was due to that or other things, but I am really discouraged.

I hope this is not an issue for you!
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Offline Edesanja

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Re: What would constitute a fair gluten trial for a LO?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2011, 07:58:03 am »
Could you take a look here for me ladies? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=186672.0
Ta  :-*
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