9mo sleep all gone wrong!

[IheartR]

Hello! This kind of fits into naps as well as all DS' sleep is affected so feel free to move if appropriate.

I'm feeling a little lost with DS' sleep patterns! His night time sleep hasn't been great for months for one reason and another. We've been through illness, teething, tummyache from certain foods and so we'd have a few mights of him sleeping through and then something else would come up so he would wake again. Just before Christmas he was poorly with a severe cold and cough and he was being sick during the day as he was coughing so much. Therefore he would wake up hungry at night, so we fed him a bottle. Then we went to stay with family over Christmas and New Year so kept on feeding him at night so as not to keep the whole house of people awake! This may also have coincided with 9 month growth spurt, not sure. Anyway, I'm fully aware we created a night feed habit so we've been gradually weaning him off the night feed. Currently on 4oz of milk at about 2am.

The thing is that his naps now seem to have gone wrong too! He's never been the most reliable napper but we've usually managed. He seemed to be in a pattern of either having a longer nap in the morning or in the afternoon, and days where both naps were short I would squeeze in a catnap before tea time. For the last few days he has been really difficult to settle for naps and I don't know whether this means an increase in A time or he's OT because nights aren't good. He would usually go to bed at 7:30pm and wake somewhere between 6-6:30am but for the last couple of days i've moved bedtime forward to 7pm as he's been so tired. I was working on A time of 3 hours 15 mins but tried to follow some sleepy signs too. I still find it difficult to know whether to follow A time or sleepy signs as sometimes the right A time produces a good nap and sometimes following his sleepy signs produces a good nap!

Here's how the last couple of days and nights have been:

Sunday
Wake 7:15am (after being up during the night)
A 7:15-10:15ish
S 10:15-10:55
A 10:55-2:20 (sleep in the car)
S 2:20-3:15
A 3:15-7:00
7:00pm bedtime
Woke at 9:30 crying, offered water but he didn't want any, settled him back in cot and he went to sleep.
2am woke - had 5oz - heard him chatting to himself after put him back in cot for about 20 minutes before he fell asleep
5:30am woke - offered water and he had about 1oz - again took time to settle himself back to sleep but not crying, just settling himself.

Monday
7:45am woke
A 7:45-10:50 (showed sleepy signs earlier but took ages to settle)
S10:50-11:40
A 11:40- 3:30 (tried to settle him earlier at about 2:45 but he wouldn't settle. Had doctor appt at 4:00 so had to go out in pram. He fell asleep in pram but woke up when got to doctors)
so S 3:30-3:50
A 3:50- 7:10
Bedtime 7:00 (fell asleep at 7:10)

Heard him wake at midnight but he settled himself to sleep
Woke at 2:10am for feed - 4oz - happily went back in cot and chatted to himself for 10 minutes then cried again - gave him water and he drank 1oz. I think he finally settled himself to sleep again at about 3:00am.
Heard him wake at 6am but not sure what time he settled himself back to sleep.

Tuesday
Woke at 7:30am
A 7:30-10:30

Today he started showing sleepy signs after 2 hours 40 minutes so tried to settle but he didn't fall asleep til 10:30. He's currently asleep.

A fresh pair of eyes on this would be great as I'm going over everything in my head and not sure what is the best thing to do! I desperately want a good nights sleep! it must have been months now since he slept through!

Thanks so much

El xxxx

[Tweakster]

Hi there hon (((hugs))) I think this is more of a routine issue and naps issue.  He may be starting 2-1...do you think that's possible?  He could be in the dreaded UT/OT loop.

As far as NW go, we need to get rid of that pesky MOTNF - if he's eating well in the day he's unlikely to need it really, unless in a GS and then I would offer more snacks and solids if he's fully established.

What's his teething situation?  Have you tried pain meds instead of food?

[IheartR]

Hi
He eats reasonably well during the day. We have had some issues with him not eating certain foods but I always make sure I fill him up at dinner time. I don't think he's really hungry to be honest! I'm pretty sure its a habit he's got into. He's only having 4oz and tonight I'm going to drop it to 3oz.

Now you mention it teething could be an issue. He's got 6 teeth - 4 on the top and 2 on the bottom. For the past couple of days (actually pretty much since his naps have been awful) he's had a bit of a runny nose and is a little more dribbly than usual. I just put this down to recovering from his cold! He doesn't seem grumpy when he's awake though. Could teething account for difficulty settling for naps and short naps? He usually settles quite quickly for naps but for the past few days he's taken about 20 minutes to settle.

Since I posted yesterday we only had 2 x 40 minute naps yesterday and I could not get him to settle for a catnap! I brought bedtime forward even more to 6:15pm. He woke after 30 minutes crying (we gave him the rest of his bottle as he didn't finish it and he eventually settled again. He then woke at 1:15 and I gave him 4oz of milk plus a bit of water when he fussed. As usual he happily went back in his cot but took another 20 minutes or so to settle himself. He woke again at 4:45 and again I gave him water - same as usual happy to go in cot but probably didn't go to sleep til 5:30am. He woke up again at 7:30am.

I'm not sure about the 2:1 transition - what are the signs?

What would you suggest trying?!

Thank you xxx

[Tweakster]

Hi there, yes teething can throw a wrench into everything.  Waking after 30 mins sounds like OT and discomfort.  Are you medicating?

The 2-1 is this:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0

It doesn't normally start until around 10 mths but kids don't seem to read the book on that one and some start earlier!

re: the feeds at night, I would suggest not offering food or water, and trying to settle him with PD or shush/pat if he'll allow it.  If he's eating well in the day he would typically not require a feed in the night, unless he's in some kind of growth spurt.  He allows himself to be soothed by food and it's become a prop.

[IheartR]

Hi
Yes I have tried some meds at night and they seemed to help so he could be teething - can't see anything in his gums yet. I will try settling him at night without a feed and see what happens. I did use shush/pat with him when he was very little for a while but then he worked out how to self soothe and he has always settled better without too much intervention. He seems to get distracted if I am in the room and doesn't go to sleep but I'll give it a go and see!

Thanks for the link, i will keep an eye out for the signs. We seem to be getting back into a bit more of a pattern now in terms of sleep as we had a good day yesterday for naps (2 naps between 1.5 hours and 1.75 hours) and still not sure of A times!! If we're having trouble I'll post on another board as i'm sure it won't be plain sailing once we start the 2:1!

Thanks again. I feel a bit more in control of things now!!

xxx

[Tweakster]

Good luck!  If you need us here on NW, we're not going anywhere :-)