Introducing EASY to second baby - please advice?

[shresmummy]

Hi, my second baby (DS) is now 2 weeks old. I have been using BW techniques and EASY for my DD who is now 28 months old. However, I only started BW and EASY for my DD when she was around 4 months old since that's when I found out about it. Plus she is quite spirited so has always tended to stray a little from the "ideal" EASY routine for her age. But she is nevertheless doing ok

I want to start a good routine and EASY for my DS as early as possible and was just looking for some advice on how to go about doing that.

I know that at his age, his A times are still very very low only around 1 hour. Plus he's not really settled into a predictable routine yet and each day is still quite different. I am aiming for 4 naps a day, but sometime I can only get 3 in. But they are not really long naps which is a problem. And with my DD running around the place screaming and playing (except for when she naps) it's really hard to get DS to sleep sometimes ! So I've been APing a lot too!

The trouble I run into with DS is that he is still not really settled into a 3 hour feeding pattern, and I am BFing so sometimes he wants a feed after just 2 hours or needs the boob to settle in between naps.

I have been trying to get him to settle for naps without the boob the past few days but it does take a lot of rocking and cuddling to sleep. And I can only put himd down after he's asleep. Is that ok at this age still?

The other problem I have been facing is that he always keeps waking up after 45 mins or 1 hour of napping. Then I try to resettle him without a feed (because it's not really been 3 hours since his last feed), but it takes so long that in the end I give up and feed him  when it hasn't been 3 hours yet. But then his A tim ends up being sooo long that I suspect he's OTby the end of it all.

Could someone plese help me come up with a napping routine that will work for his age and how to factor in the short naps while keeping to a 3hr easy with BF? I also find that no matter how hard try to put him to bed around 7 PM or even earlier, he always wakes up around 9PM or is unsettled from about 8 till 10:30. So in the end I just end up feeding him to sleep no matter how long it's been since the last night time feed and he has no set bedtime yet either. He's up several times at night too and has no set feeding pattern at night either. The only thing that settles him at night is feeding him.

Thanks in advance for your help!!

[sianie]

Hi there!

Congratulations on your new baby!

Also as a Mum of 2, I've been in a very similar situation to you. My DD is 31 mo & I started BW with her when she was around 10 wo. DS is now 1 yo & I was keen to BW him too. How I went about it was that I decided that for the 1st few weeks I was going to try & relax about getting into a routine etc so that I could take some pressure off myself & enjoy time with DS & also help DD to adjust to having a little brother.

I think with a 2nd child you do somewhat have to relax your expectations of getting the perfect routine....that's nearly impossible unless you have a lot of help with your older child. You won't, unfortunately, have the time that you had when you just had 1 LO to sleep train etc & I did APOP a lot more with DS (buggy/sling etc) as I needed to be at certain places at certain times with DD that couldn't be avoided.

I started DS on EASY at around 12 weeks, although before this I had tried to observe some of the EASY principles as much as I could manage. Whilst your DS is so little, you might find that sticking to a 3hr feed (especially as he's BF) could be tricky (I found it hard) & I got him on a 3hr-ish easting pattern by 10wks or so I think.

So I guess my advice to you is to try & go with the flow for the next few weeks, if you manage to get some elements of EASY introduced then great but don't beat yourself up if it doesn't happen.

I've always found it hard with newborns as their E & S are so closely related, but don't forget this will change very quickly over the next few weeks as he is able to handle more A time & you can see sleepy cues etc more easily.

Not sure if any of this has helped you but good luck!

[Chicane]

Hi love

I totally agree with Sian.

I think its very early days and in my opinion its best to feed on demand at this point while the baby is still recovering from the birth experience, learning to eat and be in the world. This time is to get to know your baby, take note of their moods, signs, start figuring out what type they are, then start working on what kind of things baby likes as far as settling technique is concerned. And you as well, you are still recovering too, be kind to yourself, go easy, you have time to get into the swing of things. You know so much more now then you did the first time, trust in yourself that you will not make the same mistakes, and if you do, you have the skills to find the solutions (and us here too!) In a few more weeks, even a month, get back to us and we can help you get more established

you're doing great, really!

xo

[shresmummy]

HI ladies, thanks heaps for the support and encouragement I did think he was probably a bit too young and unpredictable to start a proper routine but thought I'd check anyway.

There is one thing that I find though, in the past 4 days or so he keeps waking up anywhere between 30 - 50 minutes after I put him down in the cot.

DO you know why this would be happening? is it just a phase that they will grow out of or is he possible OT? Sometimes he does a poo right in the middle of his nap and wakes up after 45 mins, so that's understandable. But other times it's unclear.

Thanks again!

[Chicane]

Hi love

hmmm...I have no idea...could it be a bit of gas? reflux? colic? Maybe keep an eye on those things and see how he goes over the next few days. If you think its any of those things let me know and we can get you some support.

Dont forget too to keep things low key and not to overstimulate, his awake times at the moment should not be more than 45 min to and hour - it includes feeding, changing and resettling...

keep me posted
xo

[sianie]

What does your DS do when he wakes up? Is he crying? If so then I would say possibly OT/discomfort.

As Chicane said, their A times are so low at this age & I found them hard to judge as both my LO's used to fall asleep feeding then wake after they had finished!

Is your DS swaddled? I found this really helped with my DS for the 1st few months as it stops the startle reflex which used to wake him when he was asleep.....

[shresmummy]

Hi, thanks for that Yes he is actually swaddled and it's one of those zipped up ones so he can't get his arms out. I suspect it's OT and discomfort.

But the problem I am running into is that he's sort of sleepy when he feeds, but doesn't sleep properly. And then after the feed (He almost always does a poo while feeding) when I change him he's awake and screams his head off. Then I put him back on to feed him and settle him a bit, and then try and immediately put him to sleep after taking him off.

But he sometimes takes for aaaages to fall asleep and even if I"m rocking or holding. But by the time he falls asleep it's sometimes way past 1 hour even. I aim for 45 mins A time but it doesn't work out.

How should I get around that problem? Just feed him to sleep at this age? but I'm worried that might cause further problems later!!

[shresmummy]

Oh and I also forgot to add that most times when he wakes up he is screaming and crying! Then I pick him up and sometimes he resettles almost immediately but other times I have to feed him. DOes that sound like reflux? Like today literally he kept waking up after 25 mins. It's getting shorteer and shorter!

[sianie]

That brings back memories, both my 2 were exactly the same! There's such a close association between E & S at this age & it's tricky to separate the 2!

TBH, I APOP'd a lot (especially with DS) in the early days and weeks & both my LO's are now totally independent sleepers & the APOP never created any long term issues ('tho I only did it for the first couple of months so it was easy to put right).

I found using a sling with DS was a godsend to get him to sleep whilst still being able to deal with DD.

My DS suffered terribly with reflux from birth....he was sick a lot & would scream in pain after a feed & if he was lying down. Waking up early into naps crying can be a sign of some sort of discomfort (as well as OT). Have you tried elevating his cot incase it is reflux?

[shresmummy]

Hi Sian,

That's what I'm trying to do today. I have got one of those crib wedge things that elevates the cot a bit. So fingers crossed. Do you know how to tell if it's reflux versus OT? I'm wondering whether I should take him to the doctor to see if it's reflux.

Today he woke after 40 mins from his first AM nap and then refused to settle without a feed!! Sigh.... now I've wrapped him in another swaddle and will try the crib wedge later today when DH brings it home. It took another hour to settle him so there goes trying to tell the difference between OT or refulx! he's OT for sure today!!

Will keep you posted.

[Chicane]

Hey shresmummy

I am going to ask some of the reflux mods to come over and have a look at your post - they may decide to move you over to the reflux board where you can get more specific support...

It may not be full on reflux - he is still so little and may need a few more weeks to get used to eating. Its really hard at the moment I know, but go with the flow a little bit. You seem like you are really aware of the potential issues and props you may face in the future which is the first step to avoiding them. But for the moment I wouldn't worry about it as you've got it all in your minds eye and you will have time in a month or so to iron out these potential issues....

xo

[sianie]

Lots of newborns 'spit-up' but reflux is different. If your LO has reflux he will be in pain/discomfort, especially after a feed and when lying down. It's hard to explain but my DS's cry when suffering from reflux was different to his 'normal' cry. It really did sound like he was in pain....I got my DS diagnosed at 4 weeks after we got referred to a Paediatrician & by 6 mths it was a lot better. I did use a dummy with DS as well (I was never a dummy fan!) but it really did make a huge difference to his reflux (the sucking action produces saliva which can help with the acid that's produced with reflux) & also helped him to nap longer.

Have a look over on the reflux board, there's loads of great info over there. I used it a lot when DS was little....

[EloysH]

Hi  

From what I have read, it definantly sounds as though your baby could is OT, and whether this is caused by reflux discomfort or else plain old OS, and normal newborn gassiness is what we need to find out.  A good way to discover whether reflux is the cause of all the crying and short naps is to familiarise with all the possible symptoms then watch her very closely for a few days, especially when settling for sleep.   If you find that she displays quite a few of the symptoms lists on the links below you then have a case for reflux.

Its important to note that reflux babies do not need to spit up, they can have "silent reflux". It is also important to note that every baby will show the pain discomfort differently.  That's why there are so many symptoms listed.   Depending on the severity of the pain, the symptoms will range from mild - such as nose rubbing, to severe - such as Sandifers syndrome.  Also, some babies will have feed short feeds and feed hungriily and efficiently.  Other babies will fuss on and off, burping lots though feeds and feeds will be stressful for mother and baby.  Both these babies have pain, the babies who fuss are associating the feed with their pain... it probably hurts alot as the milk goes down. The babies who want to feed all the time are feeling soothed by the milk in their inflamed and sore throats, so you can see the symptoms vary alot.
 
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0
 

http://www.cradle2kindy.com.au/BlogRetrieve.aspx?BlogID=1159&PostID=15358


Let me know how you get on, and if you are thinking along these reflux lines we can move this to the CRC board.

Eloise x

[EloysH]

Hi me again

Can I also add that lots of newborns seem a bit colicy but settle quickly, how was his birth? was it traumatic?  He may just need some time to learn how to sleep and eat and poo for that matter.

  I was thinking, if it is reflux he will get worse with time and symptoms escalated by 6-8 weeks. These early days are probably better spent getting to know your baby and just being aware of things to watch out for, as opposed to worrying too much about reflux.

HTH xx

[Chicane]

Hi love

Agree with all. I think you are understandably worried about creating props and bad habits. But at this stage its kind of impossible. I would really encourage you to feed when he wants and give him lots of comfort. In about another 3 weeks or so things will settle a bit more and you will be in a better position to start thinking about rituals and routines...for the moment, breathe deep and get in lots of cuddles

xo