30-31 OZ a day... but 2 ounces stuck in the night

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Hi Ladies, I have been trying to figure this out for several weeks and need your help.

My DD1 is almost 5 months old - happy going on a 4 hour routine starting at 7:30 am.

For a while we were on 4 feeds (7OZ) a day plus 2-3 ounces in the middle of the night. She would feed at 7:30am, 11:30, 3:30 and 7pm... and somewhere between 3 and 4am. I have never had success with waking for the dream feed - as all 3 of my kids would be so sleepy (no matter when I went to them) that they would still wake in the night, the same amount of times.

The fall out has been that the 7am feed is very weak and takes forever. Now, I have tried to take out some of the ounces during the day resulting in a natural wake up between 10pm and 11pm. The natural wake up is fine... but the morning feed to going down to 4oz. I am not sure what to do or where to start.

How are other people structuring feeds?


Help, Help!
Thanks

[Lolly]

When you say they were too sleepy at the dreamfeed do you mean they wouldn't take anything or you didn't feed them because you couldn't wake them? The dreamfeed is supposed to be an asleep feed, but I know my two were not good at taking that feed and it made no difference to them. We stopped the DF after a while and just let them wake on their own, so they would have had the 7pm bedtime feed then they would wake some time between midnight and 3am for a feed.

I wouldn't take away daytime oz, you want to get more oz in them in the day not less to get them to take less at night rather than waking for a feed. If your DD was taking 4 good feeds during the day and only a few oz during the night she may well drop that feed soon, (or with a little encouragement ).

So, I would go back to those 7oz bottles at 4 hour intervals - or 8oz if she will take them and see what happens at night. If she is waking 3/4am try just resettling - 2-3oz doesn't really sound hungry - that's a snack compared to a full feed for her which is probably the reason for the smaller wake up feed. If she won't resettle you can reduce that bottle, although it's so small diluting it is probably a better option to get her to drop it.

What do you think?

Laura

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Whenever I have done dreamfeeds... my children (DS1 and DS2) have only take 2-3 minutes of nursing (or 3 OZ this time around with DD1). They would fall back asleep so quickly. It seemed to never make a difference for the rest of the night.

I agree... I should work on the day feeds. and hope for 7-8 oz. I do think the middle of the night feed and the 7am feed should be doable/combinable  - maybe 6am feed with a 7:30 top up to keep everything on track. Our community health nurse says that it won't hurt her to give her a few OZs of water in the night.... just to help get the calorie rotation into the daytime hours.

Her first bottle today was only 5OZ... second was 8 OZ... if she takes another 2 8oz bottles today... I will feel good about starting tonight with resettling.

She can sleep 10-12 hours in a row... she has done this many times. It just feels like we may be loosing ground.

Sure hope this works!!!

[Lolly]

Are you trying to wake them for the DF or are they waking when you try to feed them?

Laura

[Cory'stiredmommy]

When I have tried the df, I go to her, as I pick her up from the crib, her eyes open.She starts drinking and goes right back to sleep. Only 2-3 OZ go in.

P.S. Should I be going longer than 4 hours between bottle feeds. I fed over 4 hours ago and she is not even slightly interested in feeding. I am starting to dread feeding times:-( Pout! It takes so long... her arms are flailing... it sucks:-(

[Cory'stiredmommy]

So.. yesterday I left her to sleep more during the day so she would be well awake for her feeds. The balance of the day she took fairly good feeds and went to bed at 8:30pm. She slept through the 10-11 wake up (which she had only done for 2 nights), woke at 4am.... settled just fine with water (as per the nurse)... and I had to wake her at 7:30am. This morning she did take a better feed of 7OZ (yesterday was 5 OZ  and a battle).

Hopefully the day feeds go well.... which I am guessing they will... and I will stick with water for middle of the night wakings and hope she drops those wakings naturally. Otherwise, I will have to start to decrease the water she takes in the night.

Would you say the 4am wake up was actaul hunger since she had to be woken for a feed/day at 7:30am?

[Cory'stiredmommy]

... I guess I had wishful thinking this morning...
The next feed, 4 hrs later, was not good. She was super fussy and it took 40 minutes for her to take 4.5 OZ.
She is simply not hungry after a full feed 4 hours later. I am not sure what to do!
I really need some help here....:-(

[Lolly]

Can you post your EASY so we can see what the whole day looks like? If you can post in the format below it will give us a better picture.

E - time and amount
A - how long for
S - what times and how long for

What flow teat do you have her on? Have you tried a faster one?

Laura

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Here is todays EASY

E - 7:30 wake and 7OZ
A - 7:30-9:15
S - 9:15-11:15
E: 11:15 wake, 11:30 feed 4.5OZ - not hunger cues being given... but afraid to go longer and have night wakings for feeds
A: 11:15-1:15
S:1:15-3:00
E:3:30 7OZ - yesterday's amount - she was hungry at this feed (It is only 1pm here as I write this)
A:3:00-5:00
S:5:00-6:00
E:7:30 (7OZ) - again yesterday's amount
A:6:00-8:00
S: 8:00

How long does it normally take for a baby to take 8OZ?
The flow of the teat is fine for her - it is a medium flow and she has no trouble with it. She just isn't hungry.
Yesteday she ate a total of 27OZ in her 4 feeds.

[Lolly]

Well, your EASY looks good really. A bottle fed baby should really finish a feed within 20 mins, if you let it go on too long you risk getting into snacking. When mine were fussing over a feed and I'd tried for about 15/20 mins I just gave up and left them until the next feed time (or slightly earlier if they were demanding it). They also aren't going to be equally hungry at every feed, so providing they are taking enough over 24 hours it shouldn't be a problem.

Laura

[Cory'stiredmommy]

Interesting... so perhaps... I have a 45 minute snacker on my hands. That would make sense.
I seriously spend 45 minutes for her to drink 4-7OZ. There are so many long breaks involved. I feed a few onces, I brush and floss, feed a few more ounces, wash my face, do a diaper change, feed some more! This is silly.

What are some key points that I need to know to decrease the feed time and get away from possible snacking?

My other 2 kids were like this too... well, I should say "I was like this with my other 2 kids;-)"

I would love for quick feeds and for us to move on!

Tell me what to do! Please:-)

[Lolly]

Ok so first try a faster teat or a variflow teat if your bottle type does one. She could well be getting bored with the flow if she is only taking a few oz and stopping. Then I would offer the bottle, let her drink til she stops, burp, give it a couple of mins if you need to then re-offer. I would cut the feed off by about 20 mins and wait until the next feed time. She could well get hungry before the 4 hours but use distraction etc to hold her off as long as you can to let her get properly hungry.

Does she have any symptoms of reflux? What is her behaviour like during a feed - is she calm?

Laura

[Cory'stiredmommy]

I know the teat is the right size. When she is actually hungry, she drinks very fast and the teat accomodates her. I will leave that in place:-)

During feeds:

When she is hungry - she is calm- drinks fast

When I start a feed without her giving cues - she takes the first few ounces fine and then the balance of the feed goes super slow. And she is cranky - screams at me in frusteration - not from pain. I am almost thinking that the length of time I am putting into a feed impacts negatively on the next feed: KWIM?

She used to have relux - weeks 2-8 or so. That has stopped and she only cries when I put the bottle near her when she doesn't want it. As far as I can tell, the reflux is gone or silent?

If I start sticking to the 20 minute rule... could I turn this ship around?

**Update: The 3:30 feed. - I fed at 3:45 - she was really sucking her thumb. She ate (5.5 OZ) in the first 25minutes and wouldn't take more - so I quit. And of now, today, she is at 17 OZ - normally she has eaten 19-21 Oz by this pt.
P.S. I have seen this monkey take 8 oz in 15 minutes. I know it can happen!
***Update: 7:45PM feed - she took 8oz before bed in about 25 minutes, woke at 4:15 am - I gave her water - she went back to sleep - I woke her at 7:20am, she played until hunger cues at 7:45am - I fed her in 20 minutes and she took 6.75 OZ - yesterday morning I fed her at 7:30, 7OZ but it took 40 minutes. I am seeing improvement.

I am really starting to think I was aiding in a snacker.... I am very surprised.