Just need someone to tell me we are doing the right thing!!

[missyb]

I am not sure if I am doing the right thing or not???

J is 2 in a couple of weeks and we have struggled with his naps since day 1.  After dropping down to 1 nap at about 12mths things had improved dramatically until about 4/5 months ago we had a run of illness, separation anxiety and teething.  This lasted ages, and I am pleased to say we are well over it.

With the exception of sleep.  The days still remained ok-ish wish naps from anywhere from 1-2.5hrs (1.5hrs on average), but the nights were starting to go crazy with him not going to bed until 8.30-9, and then him screaming when he did go down,  short nights and parties in the middle of the night, nightmares and EWíngs.  So I think the long naps were just him playing catch up.

On paper it so looked liked OT but not matter what I did it made it worse.  Anyway, so last week he only had an hours nap and ended up having a long A time before bed, and what do you know he went to bed with no screaming, no midnight parties and slept for 12hrs
'
So it got me thinking, that we needed to cap the nap.  So I started capping the nap to an hour and things improved.  But this week is the first time I have done it consistently and I am panicing.  It is day 3 and I am so worried about him becoming OT.  He slept well last night, 12hrs and he has woken in such a beautiful mood this morning.  But I can’t help thinking that it isn’t enough sleep. Have also noticed that his behaviour in the afternoons is SOOO much better.

Our days now are looking like:
7-7.30 wake
12.30-1.30 Nap
7-7.30 Bed (which the last 2 nights he has taken himself off to bed)
He just seems too little to only be having an hour, especially when I have friends with LO’s the same age still doing 3hr naps.  I have gone from battling sleep to waking him and it just seems so wrong,

I guess I am just looking for someone to tell me that it is the right thing to be doing and that it is what needs to happen.  But it is so scary.

[deb]

Some kids are lower sleep needs than others. If his mood is good, and if capping the nap otherwise is working for you I'd go ahead and keep doing it. If his mood goes out the window or something else concerns you about his behavior or demeanor, it might be cause to revisit the issue, but it sounds like you've hit on a solution.

[Lolly]

So, he is waking happy, his behaviour in the afternoons has improved, he is going to bed more easily and sleeping 12 hours - I would say what you are doing looks like the right thing for him! You seem to be pretty intune with his needs so if he does start getting OT then you can bring bedtime forward a bit or let him nap a little longer to catch up.

Sleep needs seem to be so variable, I have friends with 2 year olds that sleep 2.5- 3 hours and friends with children the same age who don't nap at all.

It does seem you are doing the right thing though - and you can re-evaluate if it stops going right!

Laura

[missyb]

Thanks guys, I needed the reassurance.

I have battled since day 1 with getting this child to sleep so waking him just seems so un-natural and against the grain.

Fingerscross it lasts a while!!!

[missyb]

Hey guys,

I am just bumping this back up instead of starting a whole new post, but I am in need of a few more ideas.

It has been just over 2 weeks now since I started cutting J's nap down to an hour and it has been wokring really well.  Daycare have got on board too and they have even noticed a change in his behaviour-GREAT.  He is happy and bedtime are no longer a huge screaming drama.  He now tells me he wants to go to bed, and it is just a no fuss affair.

For the first week our day looked like

7 wake
12.30-1.30 nap
7-7.30 bed

But then last weekend we put J into his big bed. He has taken to it really really well, and we haven't had any major issues with it. Except now he seems to be waking earlier and earlier.  The first couple of days he did sleep till 7, but he had a couple of NWíngs that were realted to the BB so I think he was just catching up.  But now our days are looking like

6ish wake
12.30-1.30 nap (i have tried putting him to bed earlier but it results in a drama)  Occasionally the nap is more like 1-2 especailly at daycare.
7-7.30ish bed (again have tried putting him down earlier but it results in a drama)

So i am wondering, is this new wake up time (which isn't cool) just him, related to the BB, cause he is starting to get chronically OT or becuase he needs the nap cutting back even more??

He is still happy and compliant and we are not having any behavioural things like we did before.  He isn't teething or unwell. We are TTíng aswell (but not whole heartedly) but don't think this is an issue either.

I just don't know where to go or am i trying to fix something that isn't broken?? He has always been low on sleep needs but 10.5hr at night just doesn't seem enough for him-mummy would like it longer

[*Becky*]

I would 'think' that the nap is fine tbh and that this is more to do with the transition to a BBB. Does he get up or stay in bed?
I would doubt the EW's began from OT particularly as you say he has been so happy but it might now be becoming an OT issue due to the EW's.
Does he have a gro-clock or similar? what does he do when he wakes in the am?

[missyb]

Thanks for your reply Henry.

When he wakes he is normally happy, from both his naps and from over night.  But there is no way he stays in bed, infact I think his eyes are only just opening as he is climbing out.  We have a baby gate accross his door, as it isn't safe for him to be roaming around the area of the house where the bedrooms are, so he stands at the gate saying "mummy wake-up"or "mummy play" He will do this happily for 10minutes or so, before he starts getting angry or before he starts pulling everything out of his draws/wardrobe, despite having toys and books (why do something that he is allowed to do, when he can be cheeky??).

I have tried going and syaing it is too early to get up, get back into bed and read your books, but that just results in absolute meltdown and hysteria as he thinks cause either DH or I are up he should be too.

I have thought about a gro-clock but I think he would just turn it into a toy and destroy it more than get the concept. I just don't know.

We have definate OT settling in now.  YEsterday was beyond horrendous and i had to deal with by myself cause DH was away.  J woke at 6 and was havign tantrums within 20min of being up.  His behaviour for the day was beyond anythign i have every seen him be like before.  I tried 3 times to get him to nap, but he wasnt having a bar of it, so at 2pm I packed him in the car and AP'd a nap (25min-he only ever does 25min in the car) and went to nanna's.  HE slept on the way home too (510-535), and then went to bed well at 7.30 (which i wasn't expecting) but has woken at 6am again this morning and I hate to say it but his temperment doesn't seem so much better today

WE are heading out this morning to pick DH up so hopefully I can AP a nap into him and then still get him down for his usual nap too. Fingerscrossed on that one.

So if it is the BBB transition that is causing the EWíngs and subsequent OT do you think it is something that we willl just ride out???  I hope so, cause things were going so well prior to that and he loves his big bed.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I think you need to reconsider the Gro-clock.  They will get the concept.  And no socialization from you, it will only make things harder.  I have a chronic EW - he's woken between 5 to 5:30 for his entire babyhood.  He's going on for 23 mths now.

I would also think about removing everything from his room that he can get into that you don't want him getting into.  Only toys and books and things he can actually entertain with.  It's going to be a pain for a while until he gets used to having free reign of his room but having too many interesting things in there is only going to encourage him to get out of bed and explore.  Make it booooring but not so boring that you can't sneak another 1 hr sleep while he entertains himself in the mornings :-)

I agree with Becky that it sounds like the EW are leading to OT, his day is becoming longer and with a shorter nap this is a dangerous area.  I would think about letting the nap go a bit longer and try a slightly earlier bedtime to see if you can work off the sleep begets sleep and quash the EW.

When making a transition like into a BBB and nap capping at the same time, it's hard to tell what the true issue is.  Plus you are PTing and that will affect him emotionally & developmentally - it's a new skill he's working on. Too many variables to pinpoint just one thing.

[*Becky*]

I think you need to reconsider the Gro-clock.  They will get the concept.  And no socialization from you, it will only make things harder.  I have a chronic EW - he's woken between 5 to 5:30 for his entire babyhood.  He's going on for 23 mths now.

I would also think about removing everything from his room that he can get into that you don't want him getting into.  Only toys and books and things he can actually entertain with.  It's going to be a pain for a while until he gets used to having free reign of his room but having too many interesting things in there is only going to encourage him to get out of bed and explore.  Make it booooring but not so boring that you can't sneak another 1 hr sleep while he entertains himself in the mornings :-)

Agree with both of these...keep me posted - we will be going through this very soon too I think..

[missyb]

Thanks ladies.

Will look into the gro clocks, I am willing to give anything a go. Looks like a lot of the suppliers here though are sold out

We had a bit of success this morning.  J woke at 6 again and was standing quietly at his gate, and DH was up getting ready for work, so he told J that he had to stay quietly in his room and mummy would get him up when he was ready, he had a quick grizzle but then shut his door and stayed there quietly till 6.50!!!! I was shocked, especially since he had had a so so night-we had our first rolling out of bed experience.

He has gone down for his nap well just earlier so will leave him today and not wake him and see if we can catch him up.

[missyb]

I'm back and well, I kind of feel like we have taken a couple of steps forward and a couple of steps back the last few days.

I have tried extending his naps to overcome this supposed OT but he is waking himself after no longer than 1hr10minutes and is waking really happy. I have tired putting him down for naps earlier and later to no avail.  He even spent one of his naps on his bedroom floor after protesting so much about going for a nap.

On the EW’s they have got slightly later (6-6.30ish) and DH has been going to him when he wakes and having a “man chat” and J has got back into bed and read his books until I have got up to him at 7.  This morning he woke at 5am, opened his door to a dark hallway, said mummy nigh nighs, Daddy nigh nighs” then shut his door and got back into bed and I didn’t hear a peep until after 7.

So that is great, he is getting the message.  But the downside is that we now have the same bedtime screaming battles that we had prior to him cutting the nap.  Last night he carried on for nearly 40min before he gave in, got into bed and went to sleep. (meant BT was eventually 8pm)

So yesterday for example went

6.30 wake (stayed in his room till 7 happily)
12.30-12.35 nap (at daycare and woke himself)
7.30pm bed but didn’t go to sleep until 8.

5am wake this morning, but went back to sleep
7am wake
1230 attempted nap, protested until 1 and then only slept till 1.30
6.30 bed but didn’t go to sleep until 7pm

So who knows what tomorrow will bring.  Btu his behaviour and demeanour this afternoon was beautiful and he was a pleasure to be around.

Have also flagged the TTíng while we get this sorted out as it was a pretty half done attempt at it anyway.

So I am now a little confused on where to go and whether he is OT or trying to cut his nap back more, or if we are still settling from the BB transition.  Who knows??

[*Becky*]

he sounds very much like my little one...routine is pretty similar and DS needs to be very OT for his behaviour to be affected. I would be interested to see what his wake up time today is with the half hour nap yesterday.
Seems the BBB transition is going really well, I would think there is some settling still from this but if he is accepting that it is still night time and staying in his room that is great

6.30 wake (stayed in his room till 7 happily)
12.30-12.35 nap (at daycare and woke himself)
7.30pm bed but didn’t go to sleep until 8.

I would aim for him to be in bed by 7pm as that is a long pm on a shortish nap. DS does similar and we aim for 7pm bed. The fact he woke at 5am the next day but went back to sleep says OT to me as if he was UT do you think he would have gone back?

Let me know about the wake up today....

bx

[missyb]

6.20am this morning!!! So he did almost 11.5hrs on a 30min nap!!

And he stayed in his room until 7 after a quiet word from DH!!

I would aim for him to be in bed by 7pm as that is a long pm on a shortish nap. DS does similar and we aim for 7pm bed. The fact he woke at 5am the next day but went back to sleep says OT to me as if he was UT do you think he would have gone back?

I have treid a 7pm BT on a 12.30-1.30 nap and it just ends in the hysterical drama, where as 7.30 he comes to me and asks to go to bed and he generally goes down well. 

The 5am thing was a little random for him, so not sure if it was OT or not.  He did wake happy. Which for him if he wakes crying it is a sure OT sign for him.  I am assuming when he woke he went back to sleep. He might not of, but I certainly did.  Although if he hadn't have I wouldve thought that he wouldn've gone down for his nap easier than he did.

He is still staying in his room when he wakes. He does get up and goes tot the gate and calls out but only the once and then if he realises that we are not up he closes his door again and what he gets up to is his buisness as far as I am concerned.  He loves hs BBB.  He is still showing everyone who comes to visit it-they get the royal tour.  I think it is the Thomas the tank engine duvet as he is obsessed with thomas. He calls it his toot toot bed!!

Thanks for you help with this

xx

[*Becky*]

it does sound like he might be nap dropping doesn't it....
Thing is everytime I think this with DS it just happens to be a phase or we get into an UT/OT loop.

That is very cute about the bed - we are moving DS soon and I really hope he likes it too

Keep me posted x

[missyb]

I am really worried about getting into the UT/OT loop but like you I think he is dropping the nap.

We had another 5am wake up this morning to which he resettled.  Don't think he went back to sleep for long, but didn't try to come out of his room until 6.50am.  he was playing but thats fine.

I have just endured an hour long battle to get him to nap, which has resulted in him sleeping on his floor again, but hey he is a sleep.  But i am going to wake him after 30min as it is approaching 2pm and any later than that and BT will not be till WAY too late.

He has started really performing at BT & NT agian, but it is more for me than DH.  So don't know how much I want to read into it being due to UT since it is inconsistant depending on who puts him to bed.

Also he does have a slight runny nose that could be the start of him getting sick, so don't want to change anything just incase.  But this isn't the cause of the nap drama we have just had.  He was so happy playing and amusing himself that it wasn't OT.  TBH I knew he wasn't really ready to go to bed but it was approaching 1pm and I just had visions of him not going to be until midnight if I didn't try.

Fingercrossed Henry will love his BBB as much as J.  Highly suggest a chartoon character duvet set if he is into anything like that.  J is OBESSED with thomas, and he is like putty in my hands when thomas is around!!!  Bribery is great sometimes!!