18 month old sleep is all over the place

[danacarrie]

One more thing...
On Saturday night, nap was shorter (about 1.15) but didn't end until 3pm.  She went down at 7pm with no crying and STTN.  So that was only a 4 hour A time, which is also why I was suspecting OT instead of UT yesterday.  But I am open to your thoughts!

[babybarr]

Yes it was a 4hr A time but on a shorter nap so that kinda equates to UT too.  However, you know her best and if you think she is OT then you're probably right!

Why not try something like -
nap of 1hr 15 (ish) - 4hrs till bed (like what worked the other day)
nap of 1.5hrs - 4.5hrs till bed
nap of over 1.5hrs - 5hrs till bed

So almost what you were suggesting but allowing different A times dependent on nap length.  Stick with a minimum of 5.5hrs before nap otherwise your day may get earlier and earlier!

[danacarrie]

I am losing my mind.

Yesterday turned out like this:
7:15 wake
12:30-1:45 nap
7pm bedtime, didn't actually go to sleep until about 8:15pm.  Tons of crying, a dirty diaper, etc.
2am NW- not too bad, but DH ended up going back to sleep in her room
4am NW- really quick- if DH wasn't already in there, we might not have even known
7:45am wake for the day, in a good mood, but looking tired.

Even with us doing wi/wo, and then staying with her, she cried for over an hour.  My instinct is still OT, and now my instinct is even stronger that she is simply protesting bed time (or, perhaps, trying to tell us that she wants us to stay with her until she is asleep).

I don't know what to do.  If I stay with her, that could take a REALLY long time, plus we have creaky floors and I feel like 50% of the time, she will wake up when I leave anyway and then I have to start over.  When I try WI/WO, she seems to get herself really worked up really fast, and then it feels like I need to stay with her to help her calm herself.  Its as if she physically can't calm herself (which I totally understand- she's only 19 months!) so I have to stay to help her at that point, which happens fast once she is alone (during a WI/WO cycle, for example).  I also am concerned about what we are teaching her- mom will come back in as soon as I start getting upset, and as soon as I am better, she leaves me.  ?

I don't feel supported by DH and I don't feel like I can trust myself.  Last night we both hit a point of accepting that this is just the way it is right now, but it is SO HARD to feel like a prisoner at home.  The crying is so difficult and then once she is asleep, we feel like we have to literally whisper and not do ANYTHING for fear of waking her (we live in a little house).  We know there will be NW but we never know when- 2 hours after she falls asleep?  5 hours?  So I end up going to bed really early every night just in case its a bad one, meaning I miss out on any time to myself at all since I work full time, too.

Daycare has no problems with nap, which is also why I feel like she is just protesting with us.

I don't know what to do.  I feel totally lost and trapped.  How much longer can this go on?

Thanks for listening.
Dana

[babybarr]

((hugs)) I totally understand where you are coming from.  My DS is an awful sleeper so I can empathise.  What we need to do is to come up with some sort of action plan for you.

What time does nursery do nap?  How did she go down for the nap today?

Did you have a look at my times above and do you think you could trial them for a bit?  It def looks like afetr a nap of 1hr 15mins that you need a fairly short A time after.  If she is generally a bad napper then let's get that nap a tad later to compensate.

Have you tried fixed nap and bed time before?  With wiwo you are allowed to leave if they are crying you just go straight back in.  I think you need to decide what will work best for you and then we'll stick to it.  So if you want to do GW then we'll just go the whole hog and do it properly - I thought she was responding well to the talking through the door?

Sorry if I've asked already - what's happening with teeth?  Have you tried meds in the night?

[danacarrie]

Thanks Laura,
Yes, I looked at your times.  DH wants to try a consistent, set bedtime (between 6:55-7:05pm), so that's what we are doing for now.  We'll see.
I don't really have any control over the naptime at daycare.  She goes down easily every day there, so I don't really want to mess with it since my provider clearly knows something I don't!  She never naps there longer than 1.5 hours, though the time does vary widely- she could go down anywhere from noon to 1pm, making wakeup anywhere from 1:30-2:30.  Generally, lately, she has been going down at 12:30 and waking about 2pm.  I definitely could ask daycare not to put her down before 12:30 unless she really, really seems to need it.
She has always been a shortish napper, even when she was doing two naps, they were on the shorter end of normal.
I am thinking now that maybe she just needs me to stay with her and I can do a white noise maker that is loud enough to cover the creaks in the floor when I leave.  Is that a bad pattern to start? 
She might be getting her 2 year molars- I do medicate every night just in case!
Thanks for the support Laura.  I am having a rough time!

[babybarr]

White noise is fine! 

I would try and stick to nap time the same time as daycare then.

2yr molars do suck!  AND they take FOREVER!!!!!

Why don't you do nap at 12.30pm and bed at 7pm for the next week religiously and see if that helps set her bodyclock.  I would during this week sit with her till she falls asleep, let's get her sleeping well at these times.  Then we'll work on getting you out of the room - what do you think?

[danacarrie]

OK!  I will try it.  I just need to get DH on board.

Also, I didn't answer some of your other questions- I don't know how nap went today yet- its only 12:45pm here!

The talking through the door doesn't work anymore at bedtime. 

Will report back tomorrow.  I am hoping that this gets us back on track.

[danacarrie]

AHHHH!  VICTORY!!!!
I got DH on board and we had a great night. 
Yesterday was like this:
7:45am wake
12:30-1:30 nap (this is a short nap, but I'm wondering if it helped us out at nighttime!)
6:15 bath
6:35 books
7pm bedtime
I stayed with her until she was asleep at 7:30pm.  There was no crying, but a little bit of whimpering.
She STTN!
Woke at 7:15am.
She needed me to stay right by the crib, but I'm ok with that.  I'll do that a few days and then inch away.
HOORAY!

[babybarr]

Yay!!
Stick with the plan for a few days and then we'll *try* and get you out of the room

[danacarrie]

Yesterday turned out like this:
7:15am wake
12:30-1:35 nap
seemed tired a little early but we stuck to the program
6:55pm lights out
asleep by 7:20pm with me in the room.  She fell asleep easily and was really tired.
12:30am NW- seemed to wake up crying loudly.  DH tried to stay with her until she fell back to sleep and sneak out but it didn't work and he ended up sleeping on her floor.  No more NW.
7:15am wake.

I am very pleased that bedtime went even smoother than the night before, but disappointed by the NW.  Its possible she was cold, so I will work on that tonight.  I also am a little worried that a bit of OT might creep in because of the short naps, but she's getting 13 hours total which seems like enough for her for the most part.

The louder white noise is great.  I am also very very happy that there is no crying.

[babybarr]

WRT the NWs I suggest you do the same as bedtime.  Let's keep everything consistent and then we'll move you closer to the door.  I think by trying to get out of the room before she's asleep is perhaps making her more anxious

13hrs sounds about right.

[danacarrie]

Hi, what does WRT mean?

Last night was not so good.

Here was her day:
7:15am wake
12:30-1:40 nap
7pm lights out.  She clearly wanted to go to sleep, but she was very restless.  She fell asleep (with me next to the crib but not touching her!) about 7:15 but was thrashing around for a while.  I left the room at 7:20 feeling like, well, if she wakes again, I'll just start over. 
9:15pm NW- easy to resettle, but I did have to wait in her room
10pm NW- easy to resettle, but I did have to wait in her room
(For those NW, she cries out, I wait a minute or two to see if it escalates.  She is standing in her crib but collapses down as soon as I walk in).
2:30am NW- wouldn't even lie down again. Crying a lot.  Wanted to be held.  I cuddled her from outside the crib but she wasn't settling.  Asked her to lie down, she wouldn't.  Finally I got her out of bed to cuddle her.  She calmed but it took a while.  DH came in and slept on her floor.  I put her back in the crib and she cried but his voice settled her.
2 other NW but she put herself back to sleep.
7:10am wake.

I am discouraged.

Dana

[babybarr]

WRT - with regard to.

I think you're doing ok, I would just sit with her full stop at the NWs don't try and leave until she is fast asleep.

I think after a short nap like that you need to do an earlier bedtime.

[danacarrie]

Yesterday and last night were not good.
7:10 wake
12:30-1:25pm nap (I think ot)
attempted bed at 6:50 but I didn't leave until 7:40. Wouldn't settle. Playing with my hand, standing up, etc.
11:25pm nw, easy to settle
12am nw easy to settle
12:30am nw, dh came and slept on the floor
a couple other nw but since he was there, easy to resettle with a sshhh.
7:40am wake
today: attempted nap at 12:40, settled at 1:10, still sleeping 2:45pm. Glad she's catching up but no idea what to do for bedtime w this late, long nap. I'm thinking we adapt but only a little. Instead of 7pm lights out, 7:10? I'm hoping not being ot will help.

[danacarrie]

Just wanted to update:

Yesterday was this:

7:45am wake
1:10-3pm nap (I woke her at 3)
7:00pm bedtime
7:20 fall asleep
8:15 NW, easy to resettle
STTN!
6:30am wake

I think starting on Wednesday or so I will try gradual withdrawl.  We'll see.