Struggling to find A time for nearly 5month old.

[kitty30]

Hi guys,

Well struggling is an understatement really.  I feel I have lost touch with my lo as I can no longer read her tired cues.  She generally is a happy kind of gal until I try and put her down for a nap.

She used to have an A of 2 hrs and somewhere along the way its changed but I cannot fathom to what.  We have been swaddle free for about a week now and I do not think its had too much of an effect.  We weaned dummy at 10 weeks lo will be 21 weeks this week.  She has a lovey. 

The last 3 nights she has put herself to sleep without any assistance however naps require a serious amount of shh/patt and she pretty much cries when entering the room.  I end up having to place her in her cot VERY drowsy.  Once asleep she is generally good giving at least 1.5-2hr naps on the most part.  I cannot work out why nap time is so stressful.....in fact I seriously dread it.  As I said the crying is almost instant and she does not calm down easily hence why I end up walking and shh/patt until drowsy.  Why the difference.  A couple of times in he last 3 weeks I have given her the dummy to calm down and she is out almost straightaway.  This is puzzling too as she was completely dummy free from 10 to at least 19 weeks. 

So I am guessing my A must be wrong.  I will post the last 2 days for ideas.

A=7:00
S=9:00
A=10:00 (1hr nap 2hrs A)
S=12:00 (2 hr A after 1 hr nap fell asleep easily.  First time in weeks)
A= 3:00
S=5:30
A=6:00
S=8:00 (minor hissy but eventually self settled)
A=10:30 !!!  and 4:00

A=8:00
S=11:00  (DH tried to put her down for 2hr 20m mark went very badly...lots of crying not asleep till 3 hr mark)
A=11:35  (woke after 35m but not really crying much !!!)
S=1:20    (heavy shh/patt needed)
A= 3:50 (2.5 hr nap)

Would not go down for cat nap.  More crying so I gave up have a toddler also.

S=7:30 (self settled no intervention)
A= 10:30 !!!  THENMORE OR LESS EVERY 3 Hrs AFTER THIS !!!!


So I just cannot figure what needs tweaking.  I am really begining to wonder what I doing wrong to get her to sleep.  In addition we have not had a long stretch at night since before christmas.  I am exhausted and really dissapointed as I said nap times are filling me with dread at this point.  Can anyone see anything obvious !!!!!

Thanks for listening.

[*Liz*]

Is she breast or bottle fed??

[kitty30]

Hi Liz.

She is fed breast milk but all bottles are expressed.  Drinks about 5 oz. every 4 hours.  Rarely will drink before 4 hours is up.  She has reflux and is on Losec and I think her reflux is fairly settled at present.  As naps are so difficult I end up skipping the CN- not a good idea but I have another girl to attend to also.  She is resistant to APOP.  When I can I take her for a walk  she will eventually sleep but its too late to take DD1 as throws her dinner and bed-time. 

Certainly do not remember it being so hard first time around.  I feel we are going backwards with her ability to self-settle.  She has no obvious teething signs so I am lost

[*Liz*]

It is hard with 2 isn't it? My DD is 8 mths now and it IS getting a lot better and a lot easier.

3hrly NWing can still be normal for a BF babe at this age purely as the milk is so digestible. I found DD improved a lot at 6 mths with all this. OT is likely contributing, but it really isn't easy to fix when you have 2. The good news is that they do grow into being able to handle a 2 nap routine, and then things again settle.

I think I would try a slightly longer first A time and see if this resistance is UT. Most 5 mth olds are moving towards 2.25-2.5hrs. Have you tried that already??

I think babies usually will sleep a but earlier with a prop so the dummy is likely misleading really.

[Texomamama]

Hi Kitty!

Right now, my nearly 5 mo is doing A times around 2 hours. I am not having the issues you are with naps, but nights have been going progressively backwards.

As Liz suggests, why not try a longer A time and see what happens?  After all, since you are spending so much time trying to settle her, the awake time is pushing 2.5-3 hours anyway.

Also, like you, I don't remember this being as hard the first time around   

[~Sarah~]

We went through a bought of resisting naps around this time..or maybe a little older, kind of a blur.  I thought OT as well.  What I came to realize is she was UT and would fight until she wore herself out and then would short nap bc she wasn't tired enough.  I too have a toddler (12mo apart) so I totally get that you can't spend your whole time getting your LO to sleep.  So I had a policy that I would spend no more than 10-20min trying for a CN.  I knew that I could let DS hang out that long alone and he would be ok for it.  So if at 10min she was not even close to settled I gave up at 15min.  If it seemed like she might settle I would give her up to 20min.  By doing this I felt less anxious about leaving DS bc I knew in X amount of time I would go to him.

I then would either take them both for a walk and hope she would CN in the stroller or would put her in the baby carrier while I made dinner.  Even if she did not sleep, it was still a low key enough activity that she would *seem* not to get OT.

So I too am thinking you need longer A times so that you can work toward dropping the CN all together.  That is when our DD started STTN as well. 

I also did have to feed her a few times at night some times up to 3-4x with most nights being 1-2 until she was 6mo (EBF)

What do you think?

[kitty30]

I think you could be right.

This am she was up about 2hrs 45m before she finally fell asleep.  I woke her a the 1.5hr mark to try and preserve her feeding.  She has silent reflux and is not an easy feeder at the best of times.  Only 12lb at 5 months.  This pm i put her down with the same A in cot at 2.5 hr mark and she settled much easier.  Fingers crossed that this gives a good time too.  I think I might have to bite the bullet and see how we fare with no CN.  If she does 1.5hrs in pm that brings us to 4:15 pm kind of late for fitting CN in.  Anyhow will see what this nap brings.  Is there many lo with such a high A.  She will be 5months in a week !!!!  It seems really high !!!

[*Amy*]

My LO is 5 mths just last sunday and she was on 2 hours of A time and on 2 x 2 hour naps and a CN - this week though it has all gone out the window - not settling for naps (last week all I had to do was plonk her in the cot and she would roll over and go asleep!)
So I tomorrow will be trying longer A times! nights are up and down at the moment - a lot of babbling! and she has refused the CN two nights in a row now!

[~Sarah~]

Good Luck!  Keep us posted

[*Amy*]

Hi Kitty30 just noticed you are from Galway!! me too LOL
So this morning DD was burying her head into me at the 2 hour mark put her down and she was asleep in about 10mins but she woke after 45mins!!! So going to def try 2hours 20mins tomorrow!

[kitty30]

Hi Amy.  I'm actually a Londoner now living in Spideal !!!  Where in Galway are you from?

Well I think I have established that lo can do at least 2.5 hrs if not a little more.  I find it hard to believe because she is only just 5m.  I woke her after 1.5hrs for each nap to preserve feeding.  Finding fitting the feeds and her meds in (reflux so feeding not straight forward ) more akward now.  As a result had to drop the CN today (very scary) so we will see what the night holds.

I cannot rely on the yawn anymore as a tired sign.  In fact lo does not seem to give me any clues.  Right now I amclock watching to find the A and then try and observe her !  These lo just change so fast sometimes it would seem over night.  My first lo was a high A gal too but this one has completely caught me out.  Im guessing if you have a good night you will probably have to bite the bullet and push up that A.

Let me know how you go !!

[*Amy*]

Would you believe I am from Moycullen so just over the 'mountain'!

I had a terrible NW/EW so my day started out with terrible OTness!
I got some good naps but I struggled to get them - hope tonight is better. Going to go with much longer A times tomorrow as looking and reading other posts seems mine need to be increased quite a bit! not going to clock watch tomorrow but watch DD and see does that make a difference!

[~Sarah~]

Sounds like a good plan!  I would caution though, sometimes at this age tired signs are not super clear.  So maybe go with the flow, but have an absolute "this is the longest this can go on" time in your head

Good Luck!

You are doing great just knowing your baby is OT and just looking for the next clue

[*Amy*]

Watched DD and she was yawning and rubbing her eyes at the 1 hour 50 mark - I put her in her cot and she started to smile so I lifted her and carried her around for another 10mins, then I put her down and she rolled over and went asleep. So she had 2 hours 10mins of A time this morning. Will see what kind of a nap that brings!

[kitty30]

Well how did you get on.  Dubai slightly more exotic location than the dear old west of Ireland !!!!  I have been here 2 years now.  I have a love hate relationship with here that is mainly focused around the weather !!

Well the last two days have been a little whack.  Yesterday we were mostly out and DD2 like DD1 will only cat nap in car, pram ......etc. (these girls like their cots) so the day was one OT mess.  On the positive she slept from 8am-5am straight big bonus.  Today we have one major head cold and cough so sleeping is going to be messy.    I got sidetracked with her A time this am and pretty much was OT by am nap resulting in a major meltdown. 

I still cannot get my head around the crying as soon as she enters the room it cant be purely A time related so I am flumexed.  She goes down at night so far like an angel.  I hope it is a phase that will pass as I find nap times stressful.