15 week old will not feed regularly

[Bonzo23]

DS2 has just come out the other side of some pretty horrible colic/digestive difficulties - YAY - so things are better than they every have been but the problem we're left with is I cannot get him to feed regularly.  I have no idea when he's going to actually take a bottle.  I'm making up 8 or 9 bottles a day and throwing away most of it.  His weight is fine - he was born 9 lbs and is now 14 lbs 12 and as I say is happier than he's ever been but it does make things difficult especially when I'm trying to look after DS1 as well.  He still has digestive issues - wind and irregular bowels - but they don't seem to cause him as much distress as before.  He's on Aptamil 1st, I make it with hot water and cool it down, we're on the fastflow teats and have been for about 6 weeks.

So, yesterday he had 150 mls at 4:00 am (having taken 220 mls at dreamfeed at 11 pm) (would've taken more but I only made up 150 mls)
I woke him at 8, he took 80 mls.  I tried to feed him at 10:30, he took nothing.  I tried again at 12:30, he took nothing.  At 15:30 he took 220 mls and slept until 18:30 when I woke him and gave him 180 mls.  He took 230 mls at 23:00 and then today..

4:30 150 mls
7:30 50 mls - tried again at 10 -nothing, woke him at 13:30 when he took 200 mls

Every day is different apart from he always wants a bottle at about 4/4:30 am.  The hv wants me to try to feed him at least every 4 hours but if doesn't want it he won't drink it!  Any ideas?

[Lolly]

Can you post your EASY in terms of

Eat - what times, how much
A- how long for
S - what times, how long for

If we can have a typical picture for a day or so it may help give us some clues. Have you ever tried an Easy Digest formula (like the Aptamil ED), it can help digestive issues and I know the Aptamil one has a stool softener in it which would help constipation issues. The other thought is does he have reflux? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0 This could account for the digestive problems and erratic feeds.

Let us have a look at your EASY and see what you think about the reflux.

Laura

[Bonzo23]

Hi Laura, thanks for replying so quickly!
I really can't post an EASY - we spend what feels like most of the day attempting (and failing) to feed.  I was keeping a record but it was too depressing tbh.  There really is no such thing as a typical day.  Sorry, not much help.  I'll try to keep a record of the next couple of days.

I have tried the comfort formula but he refused to drink it - he doesn't like having to work for his milk!  But in trying it I discovered that he was much more comfortable if I made his normal milk hot and cooled it down.  His stools aren't hard, he just doesn't go very often.  I did think it may be reflux but having read everyhting I can find about it (including the brilliant pages on here) I think it's lower down.  He's fine straight after a feed, if he does suffer these days it's a couple of hours after his feed.  The thing he likes least is to be fed before he's hungry, closely followed by being awake when he's tired.  What I don't understand is why he's not hungry after 4 hours  According to the 150-200 mls per kilo calc he shoulf be taking between 1000 and 1340 mls a day.  Over 5 feeds that's 200 to 270 mls per bottle.  So if he's had 80 mls 4 hours ago why doesn't he want any milk???

[Lolly]

Is he napping in the day? Babies that don't nap well often don't feed well because they are too tired to eat properly.

What about if you try not to worry about how much he is taking (if he is gaining weight then he is taking enough) and concentrate on getting a regular eat and sleep routine going? I would start at what ever time wake up is and offer a feed, do his A time and get him to nap. Wait the 4 hours until feed time and only offer then (unless he is clearly asking for it sooner), try for 20 mins but if he won't take it go back to the A and S and try again next feed time. If you can get a better routine going it may help the feeding.

What do you think?

Laura

[Bonzo23]

Thanks Laura, I will try that.  Sounds like a plan!  He doesn't nap well in the day - well he does some days but not others.  Point is he's often an OT mess by the end of the day.  As am I - haha!  I think where I get off plan is when he's screaming 2 hours after a small feed so I assume he's hungry, but it turns out he's tired or windy.  But then he's taken 30-50 mls and then he's not hungry 2 hours later - but he is tired, cos he's had 30 minutes nap time before his tummy ache woke him up and he's spent an hour screaming with his mother shoving a bottle in his face and then when he finally got to sleep his flippin mother woke him up trying to feed him again!  And so the day goes on...

Will definitely try your plan - thanks again, you're a star!
Alison

[Lolly]

Mothers eh?

I would like to add - been there done that though! It is so hard to read cues, especially when they are uncomfortable - 2 refluxers have taught me that!

Let us know how you are getting on and we will see if any other suggestions come to mind.

Laura

[Bonzo23]

OK, so the last 2 days:
E 5:00 100 mls
S 5:30
E 8:30 20 mls
A 8:45
S 9:15 (in pram - woke at 10:30 giving me hungry eyes)
E 11:15 200 mls - was knackered went straight to...
S 11:45 until 12:30 - will not settle - offered milk at 14:00, not interested, into pram and ...
S 14:15 to 16:00 when I woke him
E 16:00 150 mls
A 16:40 - tried to get him down at 17:30, won't settle
E 18:30 190 mls
A 18:45 v quick bath
S 19:00 - tried to df at 23:00, took 30 mls

today:
E 2:30 240 mls
E 8:00 110 mls
A 8:30
S 9:30 to 10:10 - tried to re-settle with dummy and cuddles, is manic
E 11:15 160 mls
S 11:45 to 12:30 - tried to re-settle, went to sleep on daddy from 13:30 to 15:00 when we woke him
E 15:15 110 mls
A 15:45
S 16:30 to 17:10 and by 18:00 was screaming
E 18:00 210 mls
A 18:30 bath
S 19:00

Seems hungrier these last couple of days.  It's not pretty as routines go is it!  We definitely have a nap problem but on days where he feeds well he sleeps for 2 hours or more in his cot.  Trouble is, he's not fed well for days so he's probably forgetting how to nap well...  And he mostly goes to sleep on his own in his cot.  So, any ideas?  And also, when the only nightwaking is at 5 or 5:30 should I give him a teeny tiny bottle (90 mls) or should I give him the full wack and hope he goes through until 10 am ish?
Thanks
Alison

[Lolly]

What time is he actually waking? Is it just before the 8/8.30 E? If it is then I think your first A times are too short which may be the problems with the firsr naps. I know I always found if I could get a first nap right it helped the whole day. So, if he is waking at 8 then at 15 weeks his first nap should be around 9.45 - you are looking at 1 hr 45 ish A times at the moment (depending on your LO) and working towards 2 hours in the next couple of weeks to get to the 4 hour EASY.

He ate at 5 on the first day, so I wonder if you left the feed until 9 would he have taken more? 5am wake ups are hard, you have a few choices really. You can offer a full feed, then wake at normal time and top up so they can get through the first A and S or offer a small feed and resettle and hope the first feed is a decent one! Have you ever tried to just resettle at that wake instead of feeding? Some babies don't like to eat as soon as they wake either, so a bit of A before a feed can help.

What ever you do at 5am I would still wake at the same time. I see bedtime is 7pm, your wake up should really be 7am so he has a 12 hour day/night. If an 8am wake suits you all then an 8pm bed would fit better if you can get naps sorted!

What do you think?

Laura

[Bonzo23]

Hi Laura, thank you, you're a legend!

I think things are changing - he's feeding a lot more regularly.  Maybe he had a bit of an upset tummy for a couple of weeks.

I will definitely try to get him to 1h45 A times.  I think a lot of our issues have been because he's been on a 4 hour eating routine for a couple of months (he wouldn't take anything before 4 hours - all part of his digestive problems I think) but is still on a 3 hour sleeping routine.

I'm quite optimistic for the rest of today - he's just slept for 3 hours and woken up bang on time for his 14:30 bottle - which he's drained dry!  And he's happy as larry!

Thank again
Alison

[Lolly]

That's great news!

See how the rest of the day goes, hopefully well! I would watch the nap lengths though, if the rest of his naps are poor it shouldn't matter too much, but ideally a 2 hour nap is plenty, too much day sleep can be as bad as too little!

Both my refluxers went to 4 hour feeds before they were ready for a 4 hour EASY, they refused to feed before 4 hours from about 10 weeks old .

Laura