Author Topic: Trying weaning again...any advice...  (Read 4108 times)

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AliG

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Trying weaning again...any advice...
« on: February 22, 2011, 11:56:10 am »
Hi there,
I tried weaning my little boy when he was 5mths and 1 week. He is a big boy - was 4.1kg at birth and was 9.75kg 1.5wks ago (at 24wks). So, I thought he needed more than milk and was pretty bored of it, especially as he is on the max amount of milk per feed and hungry milk. However, he didn't really seem all that interested - just looked at me non-plussed and didn't open his mouth. I tried for 4 or so days but as he wasn't showing any signs of becoming more keen, I left it.

Now he is going to turn 6mths at the end of Feb, it's time to try again. And I know this time I have to persevere. But, how? I'm wary of 'cajoling' him into eating and don't want him to make any negative associations, but how am I supposed to feed him and get him to open his mouth?! And how do I persevere if he won't open his mouth, without causing any negative associations?

I have the Annabel Karmel book and am planning on following her meal plans etc.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated, as I'm pretty daunted about trying again.

Thank you in advance.

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 21:05:36 pm »
Have a read here for reassurance:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=182686.0

TBH, if he won't open up for a spoon, I'd ditch the spoon altogether.  Some babies just do not want to be spoon fed, and you really can't force them if they won't open up for it.

Have you considered Baby Led Weaning?  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=92560.0
It is a very different style of weaning, but it's great for babies that are not interested in being spoon fed, or who would like more control.  It really does help these sorts of babies develop healthy eating habits without trying to force them to eat.  You just have to be prepared to take a different approach.

There is a BLW support thread if you'd like to talk to other BLW moms.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=184657.0

We did this with my DS2 because he would not let me feed him at all, and like you I didn't want to create any negative associations with eating.  I can't say that he ate very much for the first few months, but I'm so happy we did it because now he is really starting to enjoy foods and he eats a wide variety of things.

HTH :)
Em
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AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 08:46:46 am »
Thanks Martina.

I'll give it a good go, and if all else fails, maybe BLW will be the way forward...

AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 09:08:35 am »
Hi again,

Think we're going to go down the BLW route, as spoon still being refused. Yet, he is keen to reach out and grab it from me. Think he wants to be in control, so am hoping BLW might work with him.
I get worried about him already having negative associations though, given I've tried to spoon feed him with no success. Obviously I've been very mindful of not pushing him/it, but at the same time I have tried. So bit worried now...

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 11:53:26 am »
Try not to worry.  It takes a lot of coaxing I think to form true associations with the spoon.  Join us over on the BLW support thread if you have any questions at all about how to start, some of the mommies over there are seasoned pros!  ;)  I also recommend the book as well for more info and guidance.  :)
Em
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Offline jesie

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 12:04:55 pm »
DS wouldn't take the spoon to begin with so I gave him some banana and he held and ate it :) so I kept the banana for a few days, he now had the taste for food and started to take the spoon.

Good luck :) 

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AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2011, 09:49:54 am »
Hi Martina,
I wondered if I could ask you a few questions about BLW? Sometimes, things can get a bit lost in the thread, and I know you've already done it once... Hope that's ok.

I'm apprehensive about gagging and choking... I know it's best to offer stick shape pieces at first, but how big is too big if he manages to suck off a chunk and therefore will be at risk for choking and similarly how small is too small? That's what I'm struggling with a bit. So if a piece breaks off, I'm not sure whether to let him keep handling it, or take it away. I gave him apple this morning with the skin on - presume that's ok? Same with pears? (I got organic so just gave them a quick rinse). I also thought it was easier to cut the apples into quarters and quarters again, rather than sticks. Seemed a bit more sturdy and easy to hold (?)

I've tried cheddar sticks too, but they break really easily. So would a good alternative be Edam or something a bit more rubbery?

Also, if I try yogurt, or porridge, or something sloppy, do I offer him a spoon?

I bought a bag of baby rice cakes, which are round, not sticks. He seems quite keen on sucking them, but again, they then break into bits and I don't know what to do!

Finally, if you steam, say carrots and broccoli, how long will they be ok for refrigerated do you know? Or is it best to cook with a view to eating as soon as cool?

Any help much appreciated. Thanks very much,
A


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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2011, 13:35:55 pm »
Hi Ali!  I'll do my best to answer your questions.  :)

About the gagging and choking.  First of all it's good practice to know what to do in such a situation.  You could take a baby first aid course, or even watch videos on YouTube a lot.  Most moms feel better when they know what to do.  Remember that gagging is totally normal and is not the same thing as choking.  A baby's gag reflux is more sensitive to protect them from choking, and it lessens as they get older and learn how to move food around in their mouths.  Prime choking size is about the size of a grape, for reference.  A grape is the perfect size to get stuck.  Sticks or large chunks are the best sizes, but once your baby masters his pincher grasp (this was 7mos for both of mine), you can offer smaller pea-sized pieces.  I always preferred tiny pieces, some mom like offering very big pieces.

It really takes months for them to learn how to deal with texture and pieces in their mouths, and to figure out how to swallow.  So if it seems like all he's doing is chewing or biting off big chunks but not actually eating anything, then everything is fine.  ;)

Pears I always offered in thin slicess with the skin on once they are really ripe because they kinda melt into a juicy mush that way.  Apples are a little trickier because they are crunchy.  The true point of BLW is actually to just let them go at the whole thing.  With apples I avoided them for awhile because of the hard bits.  Also, some varieties of apple are softer than others, so you could try different kinds to see if one is more manageable.  With DS1 I used to steam the apple pieces and he enjoyed them that way.

With cheese, try grating it.

With things that require a spoon, you are supposed to offer him the spoon as per BLW so that he figures out how to eat himself.  This takes a lot of time, patience, and mess!  But if you don't mind, then go for it. 

Rice cakes I find get mushy fairly quickly, so if he is chewing on those they will probably get really soft and he can manage the pieces. 

I would think cooked veggies are ok in the fridge for a day or two.  Another option if you want to make ahead is to freeze them on baking sheets then transfer them to a freezer safe bag for container.  Then you can take them out and defrost as needed.  It's best to heat them up in hot water instead of the microwave.  You can pop frozen veggies into boiling water for a few minutes to heat them up.

HTH :)
Em
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AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 15:38:11 pm »
Thanks so much Martina, that is a great help.

So, if grape size is prime size for choking, anything smaller, in theory, can't be choked on? (but can cause gagging?). Just want to feel a bit reassured, so if small bits of the food sticks he's gumming break off, I won't start taking them away unnecessarily.

Good tip about the cheese - thank you. And maybe I'll start steaming apple pieces a bit so that as he gums them, they go mushy and then can be swallowed. Though, I'm not expecting anything to be swallowed for a while. He seems fascinated watching me eat - following bits of food from my hand to my mouth and then watching me chew. And he's had a good gum on cucumber sticks (seemed to like those!), rice cake, toast fingers and apple. I guess another good idea is to spread some fruit puree on rice cakes. Not found a good way of offering avocado yet though. It just turns to mush if he holds it; same with banana. I know the suggestion is to leave the skin on both, but not sure how to go about that either!

Thanks so much again,
A

p.s. I am indeed going to do an infant first aid course, which is in a couple of weeks. That's a good tip about YouTube though, thanks.

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2011, 17:22:38 pm »
Right, smaller pieces should be able to be coughed back up again.  Also, choking is silent and gagging is not, so if he is sputtering and coughing then he is not choking, kwim?

While gagging is very common, choking is actually very rare.  Of course you want to practice safe eating, never leave LO unattended, and know what to do.  But I would say the odds of a baby choking are no worse than anyone else.

Avocado and banana are tricky.  The riper they are, the softer they are, so maybe try them when they're still a little firm. 
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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 21:37:52 pm »
Ali,

Don't know where you are, but a couple of related suggestions:

- in addition to grating cheese, you can also buy pre-packaged cheese "crumbles".  I am pretty sure Kraft makes some.  Bigger than shreds, but not as big as cubed.  I used these for DD1 when she was about 7-8 months old.
- Gerber makes jarred carrots, apples and pears as part of their graduates line.  They are already the perfect size and nice and mushy, plus they keep for a little while longer once opened (2-3 days).The downside is, of course, you are paying a lot extra for the packaging.  Also, I believe they package the fruits in a small amount of juice (in case you want to keep it all natural).  That never really concerned me though.

HTH

AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 10:31:04 am »
Thanks for the food suggestions - I'm in the UK so not sure of equivalents, but I'll check it out. The grated cheese yesterday just ended up smeared and scattered everywhere, not in the mouth!

Martina, first gagging incidents yesterday, which totally freaked me out. The first one, I think a small bit of ripe pear had broken off, as a couple of bits came out first. Then there was this horrible noise, and I panicked as he seemed to stop and go silent. Then obviously his body cleared out - nothing came out though.

Then, after sucking on a rice cake, it started to disintegrate so he gagged badly again as a piece obviously went down his throat. I then gave him a bit of water to see if that would help but he then gagged more and was sick. I guess being sick is normal as the food has stimulated the gag reflex? Just like adults can be sick if they put their fingers down their throat.

TOTALLY alarmed me though and now I feel a bit nervous about giving more food

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 10:49:36 am »
Gagging and being sick is fine, totally normal, not a sign  to end a meal or stop weaning! Just clean up and carry on! The vomit is just his body protecting him from choking! All good stuff. Yes parents are alarmed by it but don't let him see that you're anxious or he'll pick up on it.





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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2011, 14:43:43 pm »
What Anna said.  ;)

It is really scary for parents, but it's important you don't panic.  Gagging is a protective reflux, they're supposed to do it until they get the hang of things.  Sounds like he is on track.  :)
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AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 21:11:36 pm »
Thank you very much all.

Re first foods, anyone got any suggestions? I tried carrots today but was a bit apprehensive as they just went quite slippery and showing signs of breaking before even being held. Anyway, any tips of good things to try for the first couple of weeks - and similarly things to avoid - would be great. ps no teeth yet!

Thanks so much again.

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 21:14:03 pm »
Carrots are great, it's fine if bits come off.
Fingers of toast, or Stan used to love the end of a really crusty loaf
A stem of broccoli
Sweet potato wedges
A spear of steak (Stan used to suck it until it was just grey, then throw it away)
Cucumber sticks
Ripe pear





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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 09:29:16 am »
Hi, I've been giving my lo breadsticks, roasted carrot, parsnip and sweet potato, slices of pineapple and melon with the skin on. I think roasting the veg makes it less slippery iykwim.

From previous experience I'd avoid raw carrot, apple and cheese, like you say in long cubes as I felt that chunks could break off and he'd choke on them.

Good luck x

AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 10:01:17 am »
Thanks again everyone.

Anna, thanks for the tips. what kind of steak did you give and how did you cook? I like my steak rare but not sure LO would appreciate! Also, what size/shape bit did you give him?

Kiz, thanks also. Can I be a pain and ask about the roasted veggies? How long do you cook for? With oil? And how big are the wedges/pieces? Do you leave the skin on the potato? It's a good point about them being less slippery when cooked that way. Melon is a good idea actually, as it's so soft and will turn to mush when sucked. Have you found that? And with the pineapple?

I wondered whether a cheese like Edam would be ok, as it's rubbery and less likely to break?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2011, 12:42:39 pm »
I make sweet potato fries (you can use any root veggies) by tossing them in a bit of olive oil and baking them at 350 for about 30mins. 
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Offline kiz8888

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2011, 19:12:06 pm »
I cook the roasted veg at gas mark 5 (or 180) for about 30 mins. I'd peel the skin off, then cut either into wedges or finger sized pieces (my finger...not his..lol) So far, with the melon and pineapple he's not actually managed to bit a bit off, but he's enjoyed having a good old suck on them and I'm guessing he gets some goodness from just doing that.

I tried him with pear tonight after his puree but it seemed too slippery for him to hold so will maybe try that again in a few days as he was just getting himself frustrated as he couldn't get it in his mouth.

Have you started blw yet?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2011, 20:37:49 pm »
I gave him a hunk of meat about the size of his fist, so he could just grab/chew/suck it. Cooked through but not tough.





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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2011, 07:54:52 am »
Well, I should probably not follow my own advise on here.  Last night, I was eating a piece of cheese, and my 6 mo was eyeing it, so I gave her a few pieces, and now as I write this, it is 1:45 am and she has been up for over an hour passing gas.  I don't know why I did that, esp since I told AliG I did not offer cheese to my DD1 until about 8 mo.  I feel so bad for my LO (not to mention me) tonight :(

AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2011, 18:56:46 pm »
Oh no, so sorry to hear that... All ok now?

Kiz - yep, I have, started last weekend, so 6 days in now. Haven't tried anything new yet, but I think he actually swallowed a very small bit of pear yesterday without gagging, which is amazing. I think he did anyway. Tried broccoli today for the first time, which was interesting - and VERY messy! Most ended up on the floor and not in his mouth, but hey. Think I may need to steam for less time though as it was quite soft.
Also gave him yoghurt in a bowl with a spoon - he went for it and guzzled a fair amount. First dairy so let's hope there is no reaction...

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2011, 21:45:26 pm »
Well, live and learn on the cheese.  Needless to say, I will hold off on dairy for now.  Can't wait to try yogurt though.  It was (and still is) one of my "go-to's" with DD1.  I think she may have starved w/o it.  Baby seems fine today.  On the plus size, the pieces of cheese I gave her were about the size of a pea, and once she had them in her mouth, she ate them with no gagging at all.  I think they just melted away....

I know what you mean about the broccoli and carrots though.  It is a fine line in making them soft enough to chew, w/o them becoming mush.

AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2011, 10:33:14 am »
Glad to hear she is better.

I'm still struggling with what size pieces to give. He often seems to gum off huge bits of things like banana, but saying that, they then come back out.

Do you think it's best to hold off cheese for a couple of months then?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2011, 12:56:57 pm »
I wish I would have written all this stuff down with DD1.........but, I am pretty sure I waited until close to 7.5-8 mo with her for cheese and yogurt.  I also went to the wholesomebabyfoods.com website, and it indicates 8 mo for dairy. Having said that, I know a pediatrician who just told my friend who has a 7 mo, that plain yogurt was just fine. 

I would be curious to know when some other moms say they started dairy.  Anyone?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2011, 13:08:36 pm »
It's fine if be bites pieces off! Let him play with it in his mouth - he is starting to learn how to chew, so he will turn them over in his mouth for a while, then either they will break down and be swallowed, or be spit back out. It's how he will learn! If he gags on it, that's fine. If he actually chokes, lean him forward and pat him HARD on the back and it will shoot right out.

You can definitely try cheese - just give a small amount, and give it in the mrning so that any digestive issues are worked out by bedtime. If he's fine with it then you can move it to lunch/tea time





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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2011, 13:33:54 pm »
I can't remember when we started dairy with DS1, well after 7mos I think.  But I went pretty slow with him, for no particular reason, just because. 

With DS2 it wasn't until about 9mos because we weren't sure if he could tolerate it.  He had more of a sensitive tummy when he was younger.  But since 9mos he has been fine with yogurt, cheese, and hidden dairy.

I think it depends on if your LO has shown a sensitivity to it in the past.  It is one of those things you want to watch out for reactions, but if you suspect your LO would be fine then I don't see anything wrong with starting it by 7mos.  One of those mummy instinct kinda deals!  ;)
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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2011, 09:39:44 am »
I think the advice varies by country too... Here in the UK they say it's fine to give after 6mths, but to maybe delay slightly if you have a family history of dairy allergy. But obviously there are 'high risk' foods, like dairy, eggs, chocolate etc. which it's always good to leave a few days between when introducing.

Anyone done blueberries? Before they have the pincer grip sorted, I guess you could puree and mix with porridge or yogurt? Same with grapes and cherries - if they can't picner grip yet, should I wait? I know the idea with BLW is you put the stuff in front of them and let them choose and pick up. But I guess holding half a grape and seeing if he takes it would be ok...

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2011, 09:42:04 am »
oh p.s., sorry, also meant to say re sweet potato wedges, I guess these would be ok cooked in the evening and kept in the fridge overnight for the next day?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2011, 12:48:46 pm »
I keep sweet potatoes fries in the fridge for a day or so.

Blueberries are great!  They are excellent for practicing pincher grasp.  We use frozen wild blueberries.  Tend to be messy though, so I usually do them at dinner before bathtime.  ;)
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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2011, 21:07:04 pm »
We also did blueberries very early with DD1.  I used fresh ones and initially cut them in half, but by 8 mo, I think I was giving them whole.  Also did grapes cut in quarters (or even smaller). 

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2011, 21:16:43 pm »
Just made my first batch of roasted sweet potato wedges/chunks! Some of them are a little on the well done side though....?!
Also, sorry for all the questions, but would you re-heat these before giving them (in the oven?) or just go for room temperature?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2011, 21:54:03 pm »
You can reheat them.  I never bother as the boys like them just as well cold.
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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2011, 20:04:36 pm »
Anyone ever tried any salmon fish fingers or similar? Is this a good idea or shall I avoid? Just not sure how to introduce fish. Or maybe I'm trying to run - a marathon! - before I can walk...

AliG

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2011, 09:34:59 am »
Hi again,

So, yesterday, I sat down to offer LO a yoghurt (he immediately takes the spoon pre-loaded and sort of plays with it, sucks a bit etc.). But, yesterday, I noticed that as I went to hand it to him, he reached out his hand but also opened his mouth. He had over a third of a 90g pot! Maybe he's computed that there is 'food' on the spoon now..

Tried weetabix this morning and again he opened his mouth and reached his hand out. he lost interest after not very long but ate some. Don't get me wrong, if you added it all up it would probably be less than 2 tsp, but still.

My query is, do I continue solely with BLW and offer runny foods with a spoon. Or, should I see if he continues to open his mouth for the spoon, albeit holding it himself too, and add in some purees too? As it seems easier to introduce certain foods that way, i.e. some meats, fish etc.? If I start doing a few purees, I presume I can skip the really runny stage and go to the more textured stage though? (he has certainly swallowed bits of food but not big bits etc. but still presume runny purees would be going backwards?)

What do you think?

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Re: Trying weaning again...any advice...
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2011, 12:34:09 pm »
If my DS2 would let me feed him I would.  There were a few fleeting times where he would before going back to refusing.  I don't see anything wrong with it.  Hey, if you can manage to get a little more food in that way, good for you!  ;)  Just don't be surprised or disappointed if it doesn't last long, and yes keep letting him do plenty for himself as well.  :)
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