Right - help us out of this one - EWs!

[momtonb&ab]

liz i would aim for a 12 hour day.  we had NO luck going back to napping after they were ready to stop, and the 12 hour day and 12 hour night was it.  so 12 hours from wake up was bedtime (usually here it was within 15-20 mins of 7pm so we used 7pm bedtime and they would fall asleep shortly thereafter.)

holding your hand, i know this is something that you don't need right now, hope you have a quick resolution. 

[*Liz*]

I napped him as he was clearly knackered all morning. Very calm and happy, but very sleepy. I've let him have about 1h 15 and now have to wake him as it is 3pm.

Seems like I have some OT to get rid of first really  .

Cherie - that is an interesting thought. I wonder if I have been hanging onto this for too long as we had very similar at the end of the 2-1.

This current cycle may be due to bedtimes being too late actually.

[momtonb&ab]

honestly Liz, that is exactly what happened here.  i had to get them off the nap (the first week was hard just because they were struggling to do the whole long day,b ut we did long winddown and bigger meal at lunch so they had full bellies even though they were exhausted by dinnertime.   

i say just go for it and kick the nap all together.  sounds like he is much like my LOs and the short naps are just going to result in later to bed and cranky wake up from naps.   probably what needs to happen is if you have an early waking, do early bed and work through it in the afternoon.  tough for you right now i know, but in the long run knowing he is consistently sleeping is probably going to help most!

much love!

[my3girlsjde]

the short naps are just going to result in later to bed and cranky wake up from naps.

This is where we were also.

We just dropped the nap recently and I did it cold turkey. Nap capping was so hard and with another lo's routine to worry about it was just too much. I'd do my best to coax them on to the couch for 1/2 hour to watch tv and recharge. It worked for J but not D (who's the wilder one).

Bedtime became a dream, but the EW's took a hard week and then a second week to level off. Now we've worked it to every third night, it's a rough night and followed by an EW. My guess is at this point to ride it out and it will get better.

My thought would be to kick the nap altogether, like Cherie said. Give it a good week and re-assess. We never went back to napping witht his plan, although they'll certainly be getting one the day of their birthday party

{{{HUGS}}} I know you don't need this right now, but perhaps it will give you some later sleep-ins.

[babybarr]

FWIW we are on day 12 of no nap.... (well tell a lie yesterday he had a nap but he is a bit under the weather).  Although things are not there just yet I think there is a hint of improvement.  I think with our NWs the nap has been just reinforcing them iyswim?  How did you go to one nap?  We did that cold turkey too as we just got nap resistance

[momtonb&ab]

Yup, cold turkey was the only way for us and we just instituted quiet time in it's place so 1-2 pm we sit and each read our own books quietly. Works well still.

[*Liz*]

This is a nightmare. I am ready to strangle him. He is clearly OT and I just can't break through this one at all.

Last 3 days
Thurs
Awake 5.30am
No nap
Asleep 7pm

Fri
Awake 5.30am
Nap 2-3 (refused it from 1pm - Mum got him up and then he passed out on the sofa  - was a nightmare to wake and was grumpy all evening)
Asleep 7.30pm

Sat
Awake 5am 
No nap!!!! Fell asleep in the car at about 11am for 10 mins and then refused his nap at 1.30pm
Asleep 7.15pm

Sun
Awake 5.20am 

He is often waking and peeing, then wanting me to change his nappy. But then doesn't go back to sleep. He isn't PTed, so I don't know why this is becoming such an issue already iyswim? I escorted him back to bed twice this morning but he never went back to sleep and insisted on getting up when M woke at 6am (understandably).

How on earth do I break this?? If I can't get a nap before 2pm even after a 9.5 hr night, but that nap is making him UT for the next night.

Very early bedtimes are hard because I have the 2 of them to get down.

[*Liz*]

Historically J has never been one to nap early - always always a long am A time - but I totally agree he is likely OT by the time he goes to sleep. And that is why he is a nightmare to wake up, and then a nightmare to be around until bedtime.

I do have scope for an earlier nap - apart from preschool days on a monday and tuesday.

My only reservation is he hasn't napped before 1pm for over a year, and we have had plenty of EW periods and plenty of short nights in amongst that. But obviously I am more than happy to try again and see what happens - it could very well be that I have never found the solution rather than that it doesn't work.

Nappies - yes he is holding - then having a BIG warm wet pee - and doesn't like the sensation. He knows he is wet. I can't go up a size though as he is just too skinny. I need a vest to hold a size 4 on, and if he is in a size 5 he just ends up peeing down his leg  . I will look and see if they do any other nights nappies for older kids - but it if often the size issues again.

6 hrs A *may* work - that was his magic number for quite a while - he moved to that pretty fast after switching to one nap.

Yeah - could totally do without this  - more so than the EW I need a toddler that is not tired and stroppy that I can spend some quality time with iyswim? Rather than battling with a howling, whining, mess.

Thanks so much for your thoughts - I will give it a go and see how we get on 

[babybarr]

Could you put a liner in his nappy - you know like the ones you put in a terry nappy?  Something I have tried before with a disposable.

I also would suggest the earlier nap - although TBH my nights/days are not any better!  However you def need your sleep more than me atm.

[sianie]

Oh Liz, 5am is not on! 

I do agree with Stacy about the earlier nap....I would try it at the same time for a couple of days or so to see if he 're-sets' to that time as it sounds like ATM his body clock is set on a later nap time.

How does he sleep in the car? Would he take a decent length nap? Just thinking that if he refuses an earlier nap at home, just to get over some of this OT whether you could APOP the nap (well not you with everything else you've got going on but maybe you have someone who could help out with this?)

Sorry things are no better.....all you need right now! 

[~Emma~]

 B was/is exactly the same Liz. And as everyone else has said the key is an earlier nap. He might surprise you, B surprised me! We are still alternating days and its working well but even with that some OT still builds up and about once a week he'll go down before 12...and thats after a 7am waking.   

[my3girlsjde]

My mother went through this with my sister and used to get her up at 11pm and get her to have a pee on the toilet I have no idea if that's feasible, but perhaps in his sleep grog state at night he'd go and go right back to sleep for you? It's a straw I know, but my sis was spirited and her whole demeanour changed when they got her up for that pee. Totally compliant and went right back to bed.

It's a straw I know but hope he starts sleeping for you.

[Mom to M&M]

Liz, not a sleep solution per se, but the ONLY diaper we find that keeps DS dry at night are the Huggies Overnight ones. Can you get/have you tried those?

Otherwise/in addition, we've had better luck with an earlier nap too - even if it had to happen in the car or stroller. But I know that's REALLY hard with a #2 around also...

((((HUGS))))

[*Liz*]

It is life though isn't it? Babies and toddlers go through these phases  . The lack of sleep I can take - but the behaviour on top of it I can't.

Today he slept about 1.20-2.30pm - DH woke him up - they tried earlier but no go. I think DH woke him to soon really, and he was a disaster until about 4pm  . Totally OT - second wind arrived at 4pm, and here I am with him still bouncing around his bed at 7.40pm. 14.5hr day and counting  .

Anyway - plan is this early nap - if no go then AP is an option for J - he will nap in the buggy or the car seat very well.

Back in a few days after we get through the preschool madness  .

[*Liz*]

It is life though isn't it? Babies and toddlers go through these phases  . The lack of sleep I can take - but the behaviour on top of it I can't.

Today he slept about 1.20-2.30pm - DH woke him up - they tried earlier but no go. I think DH woke him to soon really, and he was a disaster until about 4pm  . Totally OT - second wind arrived at 4pm, and here I am with him still bouncing around his bed at 7.40pm. 14.5hr day and counting  .

Anyway - plan is this early nap - if no go then AP is an option for J - he will nap in the buggy or the car seat very well.

Back in a few days after we get through the preschool madness  .