Right - help us out of this one - EWs!

[*Liz*]

This is obviously the WORST time for us to have to tackle a sleep issue, but after my darling sweet boy woke at 4.30am today I feel we must.

I'm pretty sure this is the final bit where we need to drop the nap - J is lower end sleep needs - on 1 nap at 12 mths, and I had to stop 3 hr naps when he was about 16 mths. He has always used day sleep to rob his night sleep, and done short nights as a result. He IS a chronic EWer as a result, but when all is well I get 10.5-11hr nights, and a decent wake up.

Over time his nap has got slowly later and shorter. For a while now his routine has been
Awake 6.30am
Nap 2-3 (put down at 1.30pm)
Bedtime 7.30pm and asleep by 8

He is resisting an earlier nap, and when he finally does fall asleep he is then a bear to wake up again. Yesterday I put him down at 1pm but he didn't go to sleep until 1.30pm, I got him up at 2.30pm and he remained out cold until 3pm on the sofa  .

So yesterday was
Awake 5am
Nap 1.30-almost 3pm
Bedtime 7.30pm and straight to sleep really (certainly no fuss)

Awake 4.30am. Said he had done a wee and DH changed his nappy but he wanted to get up and start his day. Put him back in bed with a few books and told him to read them and then fall back to sleep. He stayed quiet until 5.30pm when he got back out of bed and started at the door again.

He is not potty trained (although he was and is back in nappies after constipation and holding).

Ideas what next?? He needs to drop the nap but how after a 4.30am EW?? I doubt we will get him back to sleep before 1pm regardless. Again - J has always done a long am A - his nap was first moved to 1pm at about 18mths.

[sianie]

{{Hugs}} Liz, that's all you need!

So with a 4.30am WU, what's the earliest you could get him down for a nap? Still 1pm?

I *think* you've done some no nap days in the past, am I right? Did these help with his NT sleep?

Have you tried capping his nap to 1hr or less, do you think this would help or try alternating nap & no nap days?

[*Becky*]

could you do no nap on alternate days Liz...or have you tried that? I 'think' J is quite sensitive to OT, is that right?

[KathrynK]

hugs mate, not what you need right now, eh?  

You know Big Al is very similar in sleep needs to J, and for us EWs always mean too much day sleep. He had been on 1hr naps for a while (since before christmas I think although it is hazy!) but recently had started to be a monkey at bedtime, and also wake early again.

So the last few weeks I have been waking him from his nap after 45 mins. Yes, he is a bear, and yes, I always hate waking him, but it has made a real difference to his night sleep- we have no bedtime resistance (hurrah!) and the EWs have stopped again (hurrah!!!).
I think it's amazing what a difference that 15 mins can make.

Although I love some time to myself in the day, I am now longing for the day when the naps stop completely as 45 mins + grumpy time after waking = PITA, quite frankly. But hey, hopefully not for too much longer........

Lots of love xxxx

[Mom to M&M]

I too was thinking you might need to wake him at 45 minutes, or even 30 minutes some days. When DD got to that stage, I often did her naps in the car or stroller as she was SO much easier to wake that way but of course that would be much harder with #2s around...

((((HUGS)))) - J, your lovely mama needs her rest right now!

[~Emma~]

Although I love some time to myself in the day, I am now longing for the day when the naps stop completely as 45 mins + grumpy time after waking = PITA, quite frankly. But hey, hopefully not for too much longer........

 This is exactly why we are alternating nap days at the moment. I tried shorter naps every day but the grumpiness is not worth it so we go with a 2 hour nap every second day. I follow his lead though and today he is napping as well as yesterday.

 I think when they are giving signs of dropping some OT is inevitable however which way you do it but if he's truly ready then I believe he'll make it up in his nightsleep. Howver maybe after a 4am wake up is not the best time eh?  I would give a short nap today, still expect major grumps later in the day and then try no nap tomorrow and see how it goes. Fingers crossed he makes it up in his nightsleep.

 We are currenlty on a 48 hour cycle here. He has no nap and a great night 12+ hours but wakes at 6.30am due to early bedtime the night before. He has a nap that day as he's tired from the early start( depsite the 12 hour+ night  ) then bedtime is later so next day wake up is later so no nap and the cycle continues. I quite like it. The days like today when he is clearly tired and needs a nap for the second day running are a treat.....he was up at 7.40am today and down for a nap at 12.30. Bliss!

[babybarr]

I said I'd hold your hand   Not sure what extra advice as the girls have already said it.

I think if he's a real grump on waking then perhaps try the nap and no nap days and later bed on nap days? Although I know Ava (Nicole's DD) is also is a nightmare to wake but Nicole is having some success with a 30min nap - check out the dropping the nap thread (well if you get a moment I mean)

((((hugs))))  I think if you *have* to do a nap due to EW then do a later bedtime perhaps?

[*Liz*]

Thanks girls - you are all suggesting stuff that seems 'right' to me as well - now just to see what works best overall 

.

So with a 4.30am WU, what's the earliest you could get him down for a nap? Still 1pm?

Have you tried capping his nap to 1hr or less, do you think this would help or try alternating nap & no nap days?

He went down at 1.15pm. I wasn't there - he was with my Mum and Dad yesterday - she said she got quite a lot of resistance over it - he ended up almost falling asleep on my Dads knee! I went to wake him at 2.30pm and he was upset, wiggled about on my knee and passed out cold! No way of waking him, so he slept on my chest until about 3.10pm. Almost a 2 hr nap overall, then I did extra books ad out him down just before 8pm, no resistance and straight to sleep.

He did wake at 4.20am but was still in bed and was easily persuaded back to sleep. It's 6.15am and he is still sleeping. I will not be waking him up.

So he had obviously got very OT by what he has been doing. Another UT/OT cycle I think.

I 'think' J is quite sensitive to OT, is that right?

No he isn't - he handles it pretty well - but he does EW with OT as well as too much daytime sleep. He also is not big at adding lost sleep onto his night. So in that respect he is a bit tricky.

That said - yes - recently he has started doing 11.5-12 hr nights after a no nap day - which probably is a sign of readiness. He has always been a 10.5 ish hr man.

I cut his nap to 1 hr quite a while ago really, it just ends up at 1.5 again after a ton of EWs.

I'm very reluctant to move to 45min naps as the grumpiness is getting pretty unbearable now. He has always taken some time to come round after a sleep, but at the moment it is a fight to get him down, then he faffs in his bed for a while, 60 mins of sleep, and then a good 60 mins of whining/ crying/ mama can do no right. And on a bad day he can remain difficult up until about 5pm. He is OT A's his morning A is too long to then cut the nap at that point iyswim? If he went to sleep earlier then I think he would wake better (in fact he does), but he is hard to get down earlier.

Naps on the go would be great - but would only work sometimes with DD.

So I guess that leaves me doing naps on days when he woke early, and no naps on days with a later wake up. Then we need a decent bedtime (huge variability will be hard due to DD), and I don't know what to do on a nap day? As early as I can and just let him sleep?? Or still cap it at 1 hr??

[~Emma~]

 On nap days B goes down quite early, sometimes as early as 12 but usually 12.30. I find it keeps a good lid on any OT and he's less resistant. I usually wake him by 2 but if he's particularly tired I'll leave him sleep as long as he likes....but never past 3! He'd never go to bed. We just couldn't cut a nap to an hour, it wouldn't be worth him having the nap in the first place for all the whining on WU and resistance.

 we too get EW with OT but the good news is he tends to go bacl to sleep these days. He'll wake at 5/5.30 and whine for a bit and nod off again. Its very rare these days that he would start his say at this time.( touvh wood!!)

[*Liz*]

Since we put him in the BBB he just gets out at the EW. Before he was singing and nodding back off again.

He woke at 7.30am  , so no nap today I think. But when is bedtime???

[sianie]

I'm very reluctant to move to 45min naps as the grumpiness is getting pretty unbearable now. He has always taken some time to come round after a sleep, but at the moment it is a fight to get him down, then he faffs in his bed for a while, 60 mins of sleep, and then a good 60 mins of whining/ crying/ mama can do no right. And on a bad day he can remain difficult up until about 5pm.

This sounds very like M!! I nearly always have to wake her from naps & she's horrible for at least an hour afterwards & when she doesn't sleep, the PM's are pretty unbearable.

I think your plan of no nap if he wakes at a decent time & a nap if he wakes early makes sense, it's probably what I would do in your shoes.

If he woke at 7.30am today then I would aim for BT by 7am (or earlier if he's not handling it too well).

Really hoping you have a better day, FWIW I'm in a similar boat with M so I get what you're going through!!

Hope your doing ok. x

[*Becky*]

I would go for 7pm too as long as the day is not a very busy one x

[Mom to M&M]

I was also thinking 7pm! ((((HUGS))))

[KathrynK]

I would put Alex in bed at 6.30 (just to be different, lol)
But that's because he will tack the extra on to his night sleep and I would get a 12hr night after no nap so he would still wake at 6.30 iykwim
Xx

[~Emma~]

I would put Alex in bed at 6.30 (just to be different, lol)
But that's because he will tack the extra on to his night sleep and I would get a 12hr night after no nap so he would still wake at 6.30 iykwim
Xx

 Me too. If not we'd get an OT wake up the next day as he'd take ages to fall asleep.