Is S part of A ?

[Khim]

Hi there,

I am bit confused as to whether should S be part of A ?

I see a lot of the other EASY routine where they say :

E 7
A
S 9

So does this mean that 7 - wake up and feed
From the time after the feed (assuming its 715 to 9) that would be A time
When they say that S is 9 does it mean to start wind down (15-20 mins process) from 9 or from 840?

Can anyone care to enlighten me ?

THanks
Khim

[~Sara~]

Hi Khim

A & S are separate.  However, this is how I've always viewed things: A = awake time.  It includes eating, diaper changes, activities, AND the wind down.  Basically, eyes open to eyes shut.

When they say that S is 9 does it mean to start wind down (15-20 mins process) from 9 or from 840?

Yup!!  That's exactly right

Hope that helps a bit!

[roseola]

S starts when eyes shut. So the wind down is in A. HTH!

[Khim]

Hi there,

Thanks for your quick responses. So just say if my LO takes 15 mins to get to sleep, so my wind down should start at 845am assuming that I want him to sleep at 9am. Is that right?

I think I tried to put my LO to nap a bit too early this morning. I was aiming for 9am, so by 830, I already started the wind down process and he felt asleep at about 840 and woke up at 10 instead of 11 or 1030 that I was hoping for. Could it be also he was UT ?

[roseola]

It could def. be UT. I am really no expert at EASY's, but if you could post yours, I can take a shot and I'm sure it will help others too.

How old is your LO?

[Khim]

My EASY Routine has gone out the window. Initially, I thought I had a good EASY 3 hrs, that was when he was about 2.5 to 3 mths. What I didnt realised what I was making him OT because I thought that when they said A should be around 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 hrs, I thought that's how long they should stay awake and only started doing the wind down for his S after that hour, so no wonder he is OT all the TIME !!!

My LO is now 4 mths old and I am trying to move him to EASY 3.5/4 hrs, but at this moment, 3.5hrs looks more promising, however, I had tonnes of issue with my LO's routine.

Issues
=====
1) he had erratic feeding at one stage - he was not feeding as much as he used to and from 3 hrly, it because unpredictable, since then my EASY routine was totally out !!
He has now since eating - sort of regularly although not as much - During the day he normally takes about 3oz and for night feeds he can take 5oz. (He used to take 5oz day and night - not sure what has changed)

2) Another feeding issue that he has is sometimes he feed early in the morning between 4-6am, and when he wakes up between 7-8am - he is not hungry - this then again throws my EASY routine out the window as then his day will start with AES - this still happens occasionally - still trying to figure it out how to resolve this
 
3) He never napped more than 45 mins - this throws my EASY routine to - EASAS - so nowadays I am trying to extends his nap with w2s - so far tried it twice only worked once - the 2nd time I totally woke him up (even though I just gently touched his hair) . Not sure with the w2s as I believe this is a timing issue ? BW suggested that to w2s about 30 mins into their sleep but most of the time my LO wakes up less than 30 mins or within 30 mins so, I am still trying.-Pat shh doesnt work if he already awake, it makes him even more upset.

4) Because his naps are all over the shop and he dont nap regularly and long enough, at the end of the day, he is super cranky and you get is a super stress mom !!!!

5) Just a question, when my LO wakes up in the morning, he still yawns, does that mean he is still sleepy/tired ?? He stir quite a lot during the nite.
 
So what I am trying to do now is to get him to nap longer, so hopefully I can get the 3.5hr EASY routine sorted out. 4 Hrs, I am not that hopeful.

Sorry, this is just me babbling my issues - dont have to reply if you dont want to. Just that there's so many issues, I have to work with them one by one and everyday my EASY routine is different - it could be EASA, or AES, but NEVER EASY !! hahahahha

Oh well, what to do ?? Just go with the flow, there are times where his feeding and napping times are so erratic, I totally lost it. Dont know when its time to eat and when to sleep... and what you get is a cranky and unhappy baby and a super stress mummy !!!

Thanks for reading ... hahahh

[~Sara~]

Remind us how old your LO is?

I think once you find the right A time, a lot of these issues will start to iron out.

2) Another feeding issue that he has is sometimes he feed early in the morning between 4-6am, and when he wakes up between 7-8am - he is not hungry - this then again throws my EASY routine out the window as then his day will start with AES - this still happens occasionally - still trying to figure it out how to resolve this

We had this problem with DS when he was young, too.  Is your LO bottle fed or bf?  DS was bottlefed by the time he started doing this.  We stopped feeding him in the middle of the night (by reducing the amount we gave him every couple of days), and things have been great ever since!  But, again, I'd like to hear about your LO first before saying that's the best approach for you.

Also, if your LO is between 3-6 months (which I'm guessing is the case), 45 minute naps are a very common developmental blip...so to speak.  My DS was a short napper, and I had to use httj for every nap for 2.5 months to get him to sleep longer than 45 minutes.  W2s NEVER worked for him except at night.  Usually, if the A time is good for LO, naps will lengthen out on their own between 6-7 months of age.  It'll be here before you know it, I promise, and then you'll be like me and have forgotten all about it since LO's thrown a new curve ball at you

Another thing you have to remember is that EASY is not a schedule, it's a structured routine.  Some days are spot on, some are not.  Don't try to keep the times the same as if it were an ideal day--that will only lead to an OT baby, guaranteed!  The best advice I ever got was to reduce the A time by ~20-30 minutes when LO takes a short nap.  This will keep OT away (for the most part); and while it might mean more naps during the day, you're trying to nip OT in the bud.  If worse comes to worst, just put him down a bit early for bedtime.

[roseola]

3) He never napped more than 45 mins - this throws my EASY routine to - EASAS - so nowadays I am trying to extends his nap with w2s - so far tried it twice only worked once - the 2nd time I totally woke him up (even though I just gently touched his hair) . Not sure with the w2s as I believe this is a timing issue ? BW suggested that to w2s about 30 mins into their sleep but most of the time my LO wakes up less than 30 mins or within 30 mins so, I am still trying.-Pat shh doesnt work if he already awake, it makes him even more upset.

I think 30 min wake ps typically mean OT, so like Sara said, figuring out the A time will prob. help. That said, I also did Hold Thru The Jolt (HTTJ) for many naps. It really works, and takes a lot of effort. Is yor LO swaddled? What is his personality type. My LO is super spritied and it really helped to black out his room. Also white noise helped too.

I sooo remember absolutely freaking out when my LOs days weren't what I thought they should be, and then one day it just hit me that I was doing everything I could and that was the best i could do. I took a deep breath and tried to calm down and believe that my LO wold be okay even if he didn't hit the average hours of sleep everyday. It helped me a lot. It helped my DH and the Grandmas who were babysitting twice a week. Because I had them stressed out too.

2) Another feeding issue that he has is sometimes he feed early in the morning between 4-6am, and when he wakes up between 7-8am - he is not hungry - this then again throws my EASY routine out the window as then his day will start with AES - this still happens occasionally - still trying to figure it out how to resolve this

My DS was breastfed until 16 months and did not STTN until he was 9 months. I think I remember that BW says if they are not hungry for their 1st AM feed, then they did not need the last night feed. Is that right Sara?

[Khim]

Hi there,

My LO is 4 mths and 6 days old today. He is currently bottle fed - I actually sort of have an idea on how to fix that - when he wakes up between 4-6 and wants a feed, I will give him smaller feeds and hopefully when he wakes up around his usual time which is about 7 -730am. However, I might try to reduce his intake and may be or hopefully will eventually drop that feed. I was thinking that he will eventually drop of all his night feeds once his starts his solids ? (he is not on solids yet)

As for his A time, I can only get it right for the first morning nap - normally I will do a full body wipe down and massage for him, so I will time after waking up for 1.5 hrs, I will start doing for about 15 mins and then another 15 mins is for wind down - so hopefully he will sleep in 2 hrs, however, that does not help with him napping longer - he still naps 45 mins. So basically most of my days are EASA - almost every other hour he will nap

For example
E/wake up 730
A
S 915
A
E 11
A
S 1115
A
S 130

So basically its impossible for me to get him to stay up for 2 hrs or for his A time. I am just hoping like what you said its a developmental thingy and he will outgrown it SOON !! else there's no EASY routine for me, only EASA - the Y time is missing !! hahahah

I stopped swaddling my LO since he was 2.5mths, but when he is OT, I will swaddle him because I find that its easier to calm him down - but it still does not help with extending his naps. Although there are times that I dont do anything and he can just sleep for 2 -3 hrs straight. SOmetimes he will just wake up after the 1st 45 mins then he will babble away and the next thing I know he is fast asleep again - (how I wish everyday is like that ) hahahahah

I have not tried the HTTJ - how do you do that , do you hold them on their shoulder and legs when you see the first jolt? May be I should try doing that, I was just thinking if swaddling does not work , how will HTTJ works, its almost the same concept isnt it ?

You are so right - no one day is the same - even though he has his routines - naps and bedtimes but it differs day by day for me, at least with the routine I know whenever he cries its either for milk or he is tired. But there were times that his routine was so messy that I totally lost it, he was hungry and tired at the same time, so basically he wants to feed but too tired to feed and was super cranky and all you get is super stress mom !! Hahahhaha

My LO is a spirited baby.

Thanks ladies for reading and taking time to answer me Really appreciate it

[Khim]

Hi there,

I have another query - as you know when your LO is around 4 mths, his A time should be around 1.45 to 2 hrs, but their A time increases as they grow, so how do I know when to put them down for naps?

in the PERFECT world... where EASY Routine is like (for a 4 mth's routine)

E 7
A
S 9

then when it comes to the bb's 5th month, will I need to change his EASY routine again to

E7
A
S 915

Or is it better to always put your LO to nap at the same time everyday regardless of how long his A is ? In this case assuming that you put your LO to S every 2 hrs, whether he is 4 mths or 5 mths or 6 mths?

Hope my question make sense.

[roseola]

I have not tried the HTTJ - how do you do that , do you hold them on their shoulder and legs when you see the first jolt? May be I should try doing that, I was just thinking if swaddling does not work , how will HTTJ works, its almost the same concept isnt it ?

So the way I did it was to first observe the time when my DS would do his first jolt for a few naps. Then I went in and literally held my hands above his hips and shoulders and when he jolted I was ready! When he jolted I would hold pretty firm pressure on his hips and shoulders thru the jolt and then wait for the next jolts. My DS jolted 3-4 times before he went into his next sleep cycle and then i would sneak out of his room. In my opinion, they can still jolt and wake themselves up when they are swaddled.

but most of the time my LO wakes up less than 30 mins or within 30 mins

Does he wake at 30 min or 45 min? Maybe he is OT?  Does he show tired signs?

[roseola]

Here is an informative thread about Spirited LOs:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=186776.msg2143044#msg2143044

[Khim]

With HTTJ, when you put pressure on your LO wouldnt that wake them up even before the first jolt starts? How long do you hold your LO ? Until all the jolts are over - and how do you know when it will be over? Do you listen to his breathing ? When you said you observe when they first jolt - how do you do that? Do you count from the moment they close their eyes - or from the moment they are in deep sleep - means no more movement ?

I dont think its OT, could be UT instead? Will UT trigger 30 min nap?  Normally, when I put him for his naps, he will just babble in his cot until he is ready to sleep.If my LO is OT , I would know cause he will be super cranky and would be very difficult to put him to sleep. I will have to do pat shh /PU/PD to get him to sleep for his nap.

[roseola]

I did not put pressure until he jolted, but had my hands hovering over his body so I was ready.

Yup, hold until each jolt is over then let go and wait for the next jolt. I learned after a few times that my LO jolted 3-4 times.

I observed on a video monitor.

I counted from when there was no more movement to the 1st jolt, and then went in his room 5 min before.

HTH!

[rachelusc]

My DS is just over 13 weeks and we are having basically the same issues!  Wanted to let you know a couple things...we have gradually reduced the 4am feed to 2 oz, and and last night he didn't even wake for it!  Yippee for me!  Also, HTTJ has really worked for us too - I used one hand on his abdomen and the other to cover his eyes when they popped open.  Unfortunately I also have a toddler so I can't do it for all naps, only when she is occupied or napping, but...it works when I can do it.  Finally, I just wanted to say I "feel your pain" with all the short naps.  It becomes tedious to try to catch up with an OT baby - by the 5th nap of the day I am DONE!  You aren't alone.  And, my DD was the same and finally outgrew short naps around 6-7 months.  So there is an end in sight!  Good luck.