Increase A times?

[sunshine29]

Hi there,

My DS is 4.5mos, 19lbs and FF.  I have posted before, but as our 4hr EASY is a work in progress and has never really been perfect, I have a couple of new questions.

He has been experiencing short naps since we started EASY and sometimes I am able to extend them and sometimes I am not. Despite that, he used to sleep fairly well through the night and only woke up once with a brief resettling.  Now, he is waking about 2.5-3hrs after bedtime (630-700 depending on catnap).  Does that typically mean OT or UT?

He often seems as though he is waking up in anticipation of the dreamfeed.  We have also been experiencing some NW. Should I be moving the dreamfeed and/or waiting until my lo is in a deeper sleep, or is it ok to feed him if he wakes up at the usual DF time?  I don't think w2s will help as he will often wake up an hour earlier and can be unsettled until DF time.

I've been putting him down after around 2hrs of A time for the first A and getting some 45min naps, which throws off the rest of the day. I am following all his cues, but at 4.5mos, do you think I should increase his A times to try and break the OT/UT cycle? Maybe a small bump to 2hrs 10min?

Finally, although I don't see any actual teeth, he has been gnawing on his hands for a couple weeks, drooling like crazy and has had rosy cheeks, so I suspect he is teething.

We have never had a consistent EASY because of the short naps, so I'm not sure it would be useful to post, but let me know.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[kitty30]

It sounds like an increase in A times is needed.  Are his cues clear.  Most would advise to take the jump in small increments.  If however he STTN then you could try a slightly bigger jump or try back to basics and really watch him. Be mindful though that if he is used to 2 hour A he will probably give you some sleepy cues at this time out of habit.  I think at this age my lo was doing around 2 hrs 20 if not a little more.  Both my los are high A girls.

I think you probably have to try the A route as teething is a cryptic game......I could never work it out.

Hope that helps.

[sunshine29]

Thanks kitty30 that definitely helps!  Another 45min nap this morning, so obviously 2hrs is too little. I remember this from the 1hr and 1hr 30 jumps - all of a sudden it just doesn't work anymore. I think the last time I just jumped right to the new time, so I might start the wind down at 2hrs, which makes the A time 2 hr 10 or 2hr 15 and see if that does any better.  The toughest part is if he wakes up earlier and I don't hear him, it can be hard to know how long he has really been awake for and will throw things off.

He's not great on cues and I usually have to watch the clock, because he is so alert and happy. So many people, including my mom who is here regularly, think I'm crazy when he is playing happily and I say he needs to go for a nap - until its too late and we end up with an OT meltdown.  Thankfully the OT meltdowns are fewer and farther between than they used to be. Eye rubbing is usually one of his cues. I just read in another post that eye rubbing could also be boredom so I'll probably start keeping an eye on that too.

[kitty30]

Let us know how you get on.  I found as my DD1 got older her cues less obvious.  These los know how to keep us on our toes.  I spent months putting things down to teeth and DD1 got her first tooth at 10 months !!!!!!!!!!  A long wait.  It is complicated when your not sure what time they wake (great that he is STTN.  DD2 is 6months and we are no where near that though her reflux is mostly to blame). With DD1 I used to leave monitor on my bedside at lowest volume so my sleep was not disturbed by brief night stirrings but it was obvious when she was awake for the morning.  I found otherwise I would be waking earlier to pre-empt her wake up!!!  Crazy! Dont need to now as I certainly know she is awake by her bellowing Mummy wakies now ready to play !!!

Good Luck.

[sunshine29]

Me again
My DS is not sttn anymore (for the past 3-4nights) and is waking at the obvious sleep transition points of 10min, 20min, 30min or 45min. Even if we stay with him through the first 10min to httj he still wakes up shortly after. My DH is a huge help, but between us we aren't getting very long stretchs of sleep anymore.

[kitty30]

Is he an independent sleeper?  Those earlynight wakings do sound like OT not surprising if short napping.  You probably need a good night or good naps to rectify OT before really knowing true A time.

Is he open to a little AP so that you could get a good day of naps in the hope of reigning in the OT and hopefully helping the night?  If you post your easy for last couple of days with the E as well it might make it easier to help.  I know lots of the ladies round here are very experienced and have a very good eye.

When he wakes does it take you long to get him back down and how often is he waking?

Sorry for all the questions.  Got to rush mine just woken !!

[sunshine29]

Thanks again for your advice. In answer to your questions

Is he an independent sleeper? 

Yes, he is independent. He always falls asleep in his crib after our wind down. He has a pacifier, which I know is not a prop as he CAN fall asleep without it and has babbled himself to sleep before as well as sttn.

Is he open to a little AP so that you could get a good day of naps

Rarely. Once he wakes up from a nap, he is awake and despite httj, w2s and attempts at AP he won't go back to sleep if he's had just enough sleep to keep him going.

When he wakes does it take you long to get him back down and how often is he waking?

It used to only take the paci replug and he would drift right back to sleep.  Lately, however, it can take between 10-15minutes to settle, another 10min to help him through the sleep cycle only to have him wake up shortly after. Last night he was unsettled leading up to the DF and then probalby 3-4 NW and at one point we heard him playing in his crib, but he was happy so I went back to sleep. We try very hard to try not to jump in too soon, but also ensure it does not escalate - as can happen quickly and easily with my lo.

If you post your easy for last couple of days with the E as well it might make it easier to help.  I know lots of the ladies round here are very experienced and have a very good eye.

In looking at my last week or more of EASY preparing to post, the first A time of 2hrs is definitely resulting in a 45min nap, so I should have seen this earlier which is probably making a mess of the rest of the day.

Here is a "typical" EASY. The first nap is almost always 45min.  During the rest of the day, where there are 45min naps, some of these might be 30min naps, depending on the day. Prior to this past week, despite a rocky day, he would sttn or have 1-2 NW where he needed a diaper change and paci replug:

E - 745
A - 730 - 930 (2hrs)
S - 930 - 1015 (45min)

A - 1015 - 1145 (1.5hrs)
E - 1130
S - 1145 - 1230 (45min)

A - 1230 - 200 (1.5hrs)
S - 200 - 245 (45min)

A - 245 - 430 (1.75hrs)
E - 330
S - 430 - 500 (30min)

A - 500 - 700 (2hrs)
E - 630
S - 700

DF - 1040


Here is today's EASY so far:

E - 745
A - 730 - 945 (2.25hrs)
S - 945 - 1045 (either 45min or 1hr)

A - 1045 - 1230 (Either 2hrs or 1.75hrs, depending on when DS actually woke up from his nap)
E - 1145
S - 1230 - 200 (1.5hrs - YAY!!)

A - 200 - 410 (2hrs + 10min)
E - 330
S - 410 - 440 (30min - often his nap this time of day is short)

A - 440 - 545
S - 545 - 615 (AP, slept in my arms or would never have napped)

A - 615 - 725
E - 645
S - 725 (note, I put him in crib awake, but drowsy at 705, but he did his mantra murmur for 20min before falling asleep), woke up crying at 830, resettled (hopefully).

Since the first A time of 2hrs +15min still resulted in a short nap, should I try even more?

I'll let you know how the rest of the evening/night goes! 

[kitty30]

Just a quick reply as DD2 sick again (sigh).

I think your key is to find the A that works for that first nap and then you will have a good basis for rest of the day.  Definitely at a glance 2 hrs is not enough.  Day 2 if you got an hour nap at 2.25m you are heading in the right direction.   Perhaps try 2hrs 30/35m.  45-60m nap generally UT.  Most mums would advise sticking to an A time for a couple of days before determining whether an A is working or not.

After a short nap guessing the next A can be difficult.  However I generally have had most success by shaving off around 20m-30m of usual A.  Im guessing as went to sleep UT then that 45m nap would still be reasonably recharging as not overly tired to begin with.  This might explain second 45m nap on first day and a better second nap day 2 due to subsequent longer A.  (eg.  if A 2.5hrs after short nap I would try 2-2hrs 10m for next A) 

On day 2 you might have been better risking an early bed over a second cat-nap but its hard to know with babes sometimes.

These As are definitely not an exact science.  Establishing that first A is often the hardest part but often the key.  You are right not to jump in at the NW.  I know it can be frustrating listening to them not sleep but if they are not crying they need the opportunity to work it out.  The more chances they get the more efficient they will become.  I do believe some of night sleep is developmental too.  You sound like your doing really well on this front.

Just be wary of the dummy becoming a prop as it can disturb naps at the transitional stage.  You will be the best judge of that.

Wishing you luck.  I am by know means an expert.  Let us know how you go.