9 month old still not sleeping longer than 3 hrs a night!!

[Rachel600]

Hi, i have posted before about dd2 but i feel like nothing has improved sleepwise since her early months, infact, still are probably worse than her first two months!!

She has never slept well, as a new born, she hardly napped and whatever I tried she resisted sleep, even a long car ride wouldnt send her to sleep!! At that stage though she would sleep from 10pm until 3am/4am which is better than she has slept since November.

Now its just so bad that Im just used to it but exhausted, cant think straight and snappy with dd1 although I try really hard not to be.

So DD2 has a bit of a routine but it does vary as she is very unpredictable:

Awake - can be anytime from 5:30 to 7. bf
Breakfast -cereal
Nap - 3hrs from wake up time, or I try 2.5 hrs or 3.5hrs depending on how she is!! Nap can be 30 mins to 1.5 hrs
Lunch - chicken/veg/fruit/yoghurts/ bf
Nap - I try to put her down anytime from 2.5/3/3.5hrs depending on how she is, but sometimes she fights it until shes been awake for 4 to 5 hrs. She is happy and can keep going for ages. Nap can be 30 mins to 1.5hrs
Awake - bf
Tea - sandwhich, soup
Bed - 7 to 7 30. She settles well.

(Her naps sometimes only total 1hr a day which means she is OT but I try have tried everything to make her sleep more and I have got dd1 to think about too).

Wakes sometimes 9 30 or 10 30. Then 12.30, 2.30, 5am then 5.30 and sometimes she stays awake and will not go back whatever I do. Her wake up times are random in the mornings but she is always awake before 7am, a new thing with her is being awake from 5 30 am in the morning which I wouldnt mind if she had actually slept at night!!. As I am exhausted I have resorted to feeding her (she only really started eating any solids 10 days ago) and we have had her in our bed just so I can respond quicker and we are all exhausted and need to sleep. When she wakes its always a wild scream, hysterical almost and we cant let her cry too much as we dont want dd1 to wake up as well!!! (which she does sometimes)

DD2 is very, very active, she is on the go all the time, wiggling, striving to get to toys, into everything dd1 is doing. She is a happy baby except when she knows she is going down for a nap. She has had a cold and now has two teeth. She was going to sleep independently but with the teeth and cold she has needed more cuddles.

What can I do to get her to sleep better. We really need some advice.

[mmom]

((HUGS))) What do you want to work on?  Sleeping in her own crib?  Breaking feeding to sleep?

I am sure she is OT.  It seems though that if her naps are all over the place, then you should aim for some set nap times.   I would say if she is waking at 5/5:30, I would put her down between 9/9:30 for her first nap.  Does she have independent sleep at all?  Have you done PU/PD or any other form of settling?  Have you tried to re-settle during nap times?

Is is possible that she is also teething?  We found this to be a tough time with teeth.

If she is not sleeping during the day, 7 pm is too late a bedtime.  I would also push that earlier.

[Rachel600]

Hi

Not sure what I want to work on, at the moment my two main aims are the first nap of the day to go down on own which is a set time of around 9 to 9 30 as you said. Then at night time to make sure she is awake when she goes to sleep.

She had a bad night and Im sure that feeding to sleep isnt helping. Will try to get her to bed earlier tonight!!

[Rachel600]

How do i stop the feeding to sleep issue? It only really happens at night, never in the day. Last night she woke at 9 30, i resettled her with a cuddle, then 10 30, resettled. Then at 11 she screamed and screamed, so she had a bf and calmed down and went to sleep in our bed again!! Then she woke at 2 and had a feed then 5 and had a feed then 7 and had a feed and was awake for the day. i put her down at 9 30 as she was yawning and not happy, she went to sleep on her own and is now wide awake and all go by 10am.

So now the situation I am in is that she will need her next nap around 1ish and she will probably sleep for 40 mins again so possibly awake by 2, if she has another nap before bedtime then she will be going to bed around 9pm. Or I keep her naptime at 2ish and hope she sleeps until 3 and then put her to bed at 7 or before.

[mmom]

I would aim for your next nap at 1:30 and do your best to extend it.   Have you ever been able to extend naps?

I want to tell you to do PU/PD to deal with the NFs, but that is only an option if you have tried other things, like trying to extend in the crib by patting.  I am also not clear on whether your LO has ever had independent sleep.  If you are going to do PU/PD, then be ready for a fight and stick to your guns.  It can take a while at first, but if you keep at it, it will work. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=69177.0

Some wean the NFs by gradually decreasing ounces.http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=46907.0  But since your LO is BF, I feel that would be tricky.

If you don't get a good second nap, i would aim for an earlier bedtime.

[Rachel600]

Hi

We aimed for 1 30, but it was 1 50 before she was down, she went independently after a bit of resistance, standing up, crying but she got there in the end. I have always tried to get her to go for a nap independently but when she teething she just needed me more. Anyway she was up at 2 30 so early to bed for her. I tried to extend but I have found it hard with a toddler in tow who is being potty trained and refusing her nap!!! I have tried pu/pd with dd 2 but she is very resistant, some nights i try for 2 hrs and then give in, she never responded well to pat shush which is all i needed for dd1. She really fights even being put back in the cot at night and the day and this has made getting her to sleep very tricky.

She just confuses me the whole time, she is very difficult to read. Thank you so much for giving me some help as I am desperate.

[mmom]

A lot of babies don't like sshing after 6 months.  If you find it irritates her and you can't settle without patting, I would just do pu/pd.  It sounds like she has been pretty reliant on you and you need to do some sleep training.

I understand the difficulty with 2 LOs.  If you can get your 1 occupied for a bit, you can at least tackle extending that 2nd nap.

About the NWs.  I would just tackle those as well and know that you will have a few rough nights.  But once you get there, it will be worth it. 

[Rachel600]

Hi

Just want to thank you for the help as although the sleep is still not perfect, there has been a definate improvement and she hasnt slept in our bed for days now. I did pupd for 1hr15mins one morning (4am) and the next night she was much better. Im keeping an eye on her feeding and going for 4 to 5hr gaps rather than 2hrs!! She is responding well and has even had a couple of longer naps this week. Also have really focussed on independent sleep and this has made a big difference. So thank you for your advice.

[mmom]

That is great! I hope it continues!