4 hour EASY but still lots of NW

[rachelusc]

I didn't know rice could be irritating.  We have been putting it in his formula at the recommendation of our pediatrician for the last 3 months to increase the viscosity.  I guess around this region 4 or 5 months is the common age to introduce cereal (DS is 19 weeks) and start getting them used to eating from a spoon.  Then around 6 months veggies and fruits are introduced.  The last 2 days DS has been eating really well and predictably (5-6oz/feeding).  I have been giving him 1-2 bites of rice cereal mixed with formula in the AM after his bottle.   

[mmom]

It is kind of an outdated thought - putting rice in bottles.  My ped asked me to do it with DS#1 too and I did.  But it caused constipation and my LO was MSPI and it just further irritated him, since he was on a HAF.

If you want to thicken feeds, there are medical grade thickeners on the market now.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=175036.0

I was encouraged to start solids early because of reflux.  I think at 4 months we started rice. Again, it caused other problems.  This time around I did start solids at 5 months, because I saw the signs.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=36922.0  I also started with veggies, rather than rice, because they are easier on the tummy.

[rachelusc]

OK, so after lots and lots of observation I have come to a few conclusions.  I'd love to hear thoughts on them... First, I don't really believe the relux is the issue.  It is pretty clear to us when he is having symptoms - he eats less at each bottle, he hiccups a lot more, he whines when he burps, etc.  He does have flare ups sometimes, for a day or two at a time.  That said, I am pretty convinced his NWs are related to us feeding him during the night hours because he ALWAYS wakes almost exactly an hour before we would feed him.  For example, we DF between 10:15-10:45pm, and he ALWAYS wakes around 9:30pm.  We had been feeding him around 2:30am (on the assumption that he was waking 4 hours after DF due to hunger), and he ALWAYS wakes starting at 1:30am.  Finally, he ALWAYS wakes almost exactly at 6:00am (regardless of bedtime, which varies due to nap length, etc and regardless of NWs) and we feed him his AM bottle at 7am. 

We have been gradually decreasing the amounts of the night feedings, and it has really improved the consistency of his consumption of daytime bottles.  When we were giving a full feeding in the wee hours, he would only take 2 oz or so at 7am.  As we have weaned it down he now takes his full 6oz feeding at 7am.  He had a few nights in the past week when he would wake at 1:30 and we would shh him, then he would not wake for the feeding at 2:30am (sleeping til the 6am wake), so we have decided to eliminate that 2:30am feeding.  If this is successful, we will then move to eliminate the DF as well. 

DS is a large baby (99th percentile for height and weight) born on his due date.  He is nearly 5 months old now, perhaps a little early to wean the NFs but we CANNOT keep living like this.  He wakes our DD (almost 2) up with each waking, and she was sleeping very well (11 hours/night) for the past year or more and now her sleep is a mess too.  Something has got to give!  He is a very happy little guy, very pleasant and napping great during the day.  If it weren't for the NWs I'd say he was an angel/textbook baby. 

[annette.xx]

just out of interest what naps is he doing now...

im finding that whenever day sleep goes over 3hr 45 we get more NW ...I also find that if he naps well (over 4 hrs) that if I make sure day length is 13 hrs then its also ok...

naturally at this age night sleep is only 10hrs and day sleep 5  hrs which if you look at most sleep charts they all say the same...so to do a full 11/12 hrs nightsleep we would need 3/4 hrs in naps which is tricky at this age unless some are short...ive been getting short naps (UT) in pm last few days and nights have been better...am nap is established at 1.5/2 hrs in length but if I stretch second A time to 2 hrs then he gets cranky so I havent bothered last few days and as a result ive had short naps but hes happier??!!!

then in a book I have it says first nap establishes between 3 - 4 months then pm nap between 5 - 8 months - so maybe it will happen when hes ready then the nights will sort themselves for me...who knows!! He also says to expect upto 2 NF until upto 9 months so im just rolling with it until then I think

all I know is ive been racking my brains thinking is it hunger/reflux/wind etc etc when all along its just a time thing for me!! my bub needs time to grow into his own rythmns I think!!

I hope you get it solved soon but my suspicion is still siding with too much day sleep for length of day... cos if you think about all the short 45 min nap situation with needing to stretch A time to develop a long nap I think night sleep is also the same ... ....maybe!!!!!

Annette.xx

[rachelusc]

Annette, we have the same daytime/nap issues I think!  DS can barely make 2 hrs A time but this makes the day too short and night too long.  Our EASY has been looking like this the past few days:

6:00 - starts stirring/talking off and on

7:00 - up and eat
9:00 - sleep (this one is always 1.5-2 hrs)

10:30/11 - up and eat
12:30/12:40 - sleep (usually 1-2 hrs, just depends)

2:00ish - up and eat (well eat around 2:30 really)
4:00 - sleep (always 40 min)

4:45 - up
6:30 - eat, bath, wind down
7:00 - bedtime

I know this makes for a really long A time at the end but I really can't put him down any earlier - it just doesn't fit our life.  I would really like to adjust him to 8pm bedtime and up at 7am, but at this point I am just hanging by my toes to keep him up til 7.  He usually has around 3.5-4 hours naps each day.  Today was hectic and he only had 3 hours, so we'll see how the night goes.  I'm just tired of thinking about it and worrying about it!  Still counting the minutes til that beloved 2 nap a day schedule...

[mmom]

((HUGS)) No matter how the nap routine, there are always issues.  That is just the way it is.  It is never easy.

You might have to compromise an earlier BT by even 15 minutes if your LO is sensitive to OT.

I am glad you are seeing results with the NWs.   I do think your LO is young to wean all of the feeds.  That said, if you can get him back to sleep with ssshing and he doesn't wake 1 hour later, then he may not be hungry.  Just bear in mind that growth spurts come and go and there will be times he wakes for hunger.

I know it is difficult having another LO to worry about.  It is very hard.  Can you put white noise in your other LOs room? We have fans running in both rooms and it has helped a lot.

[rachelusc]

Because of DS's reflux and sleep issues, we have been charting his eating and sleeping for a couple of months.  So I try to really watch growth spurts/low eating days/reflux flare ups closely...I do want to say I would never withhold food if he was truly hungry.  I think I failed to mention that in the past 2 weeks or so, he is eating significantly more than he ever has before (close to 32oz/day now compared to about 24oz or less at 3.5-4.5 months).  This is the primary reason I feel confident that the NWs are not huger-related.  The other reason is that he was only taking in 1.5-2oz for his AM feeding when we would feed during the night, and now he takes a full 6oz. 

I do use white noise in both kids' rooms, but his room is right over hers.  DS is so sweet and happy, it just pains me that he struggles so with nights.  DD would never have been able to sleep in our bed because she was so spirited, but DS could easily snuggle in for the night - I have to really stop myself from bringing him into bed for a snuggle/nap when he EWs!  Sometimes we do on Sundays...just so we don't have to get up so early. 

DH and I are going out of town for a few days and Saint Grandma is staying with the kids...fingers crossed!  Again, I appreciate the input and support.

[mmom]

Good luck on your trip.  Check back in if you need anything.

[annette.xx]

how are the NWs going....

im in a complete mess at night - day naps have been fab but since the fab days the nights are just a joke!!!

Annette.xx