Oh ladies....help....night feeds in a 12 mth old!!!

[Ambinsi]

I don't even know where to post this! There are so many issues going on here that I can post here, in "night wakings", in "solid food", in EASY, etc. Feel free to move if necessary.

Basically, long story short, I have a 12 month old former refluxer who has never been the greatest eater. She never loved her bottle. She ate solids with enthusiasm but since we're pretty much off purees, its been a challenge. She's probably no more picky than most babies her age, but since she doesn't eat dairy (that's another story) we're limited as to what we can give her; that's a whole food group I can't explore just now. She will eat WHAT she wants, WHEN she wants. If she's not hungry, she won't eat. If she's not liking what's offered, she won't eat. Our "schedule" is very hard to stick to at this point because of this.

The major issue, and this is why I'm in "bottle feeding" right now, is that she's still getting up often for night feedings. I consider this a bottle-feeding issue moreso than a night-waking issue because she will go right back down after being fed. I feel like since she's a difficult eater during the day, she's getting up at night hungry, being fed, and going right back to sleep. Her sleep is not really being disrupted tremendously, but OURS is, and I'm pregnant now and totally need my sleep  

I also feel like at a year old, we should be way over these night-feedings, no???

I just don't know how to get her to eat more during the day, when she seems to have her own agenda.

PLEASE HELP!

[*Liz*]

I'm going to move this to eating for toddlers as your LO is now 12 mths old  .

How much milk is she having overnight??

I think you will need to resettle the night feeds with no milk to improve her daytime appetite. I know it will be hard - but it is likely that she isn't hungry during the day after a nighttime picnic.

I agree that she shouldn't be feeding at night at this age, and that is true for kids on a dairy free diet as well. There are plenty of ways to add calories without dairy.

((hugs))

[Ambinsi]

Agreed that we need to put a stop to this! I feel like we're in a vicious cycle of her not being as hungry during the day because she's eating at night, and then needing to eat at night because she's not eating enough during the day.

To answer your question she'll take anywhere from 5-7 oz at night, usually. I've tried reducing the amount in the bottle, didn't seem to help much although perhaps I need to try that again.

I also want to add that she's totally inconsistent. There are days where she doesn't seem to eat/drink much but will STTN no problem. Then yesterday, she ate/drank like a CHAMP and was up at 3am. Its very frustrating!!!

Any tips on how to resettle??

[brenda2]

Any tips on how to resettle??

i agree with liz that you need to try to resettle without feeding so she will eat more during the day.  the feeding to sleep during the night is becoming a prop.  at this age she shouldn't need to food and as you say sometimes she does sttn that shows even more that she can go all night without the food.
how have you done sleep training in the past?  did you use shh pat or wiwo or gw when you first did sleep training with her?
for me i would do wiwo with put down given her age.  when she cries (wait until it is a real cry, not just fussing) go in, lie her back down, tell her sleepy time and then walk out.  you could give her a hug or other way to comfort her when you go in but keep it quick, say your sleepy time line and go back out.  does hse have a special bear/lovey?  this may help her to resettle if she is attached to something.

[Ambinsi]

Thanks Brenda....we have done sleep training with her and I know she can settle herself down. I guess that the honest truth is that I know the bottle is the easy way out - she'll drink and go right back to sleep and I won't have to endure long stretches of drama. However - you're obviously right and the feeding is indeed a prop. I guess I also feel bad because I know how she eats during the day and I do believe at times she is legitimately hungry, and then its difficult for me to NOT feed her, knowing what I know. Sigh.

Keep the advice coming!

[brenda2]

if she's having a big growth spurt or something then i might give her a bottle at night too.    but gs only last a few days to a week and are less frequent at this age. 

my dd2 who we stopped night feeds with at 8 mo and then she sttn no problem for over a year recently had a big growth spurt combined with teething where she didn't want to eat anything, but she was starving.  so i did cave and give her a bottle at night for a week or so and then stopped when it was over.  she is 22 mo and was waking up saying "i'm hungry, want bottle" - pretty hard to ignore that when you know she is having a gs and didn't eat enough for dinner!

if she's not having a gs and you stop the night feeds she should compensate by eating more during the day and then won't be hugnry at night.

check out the prop board for more tips on resettling without feeds

[*Liz*]

The thing is she I hungry at night as she is used to feeding then - it is a learned hunger - and at 12 mths old there really is no reason that she can't concentrate her calories into the daytime period. That will also help her have a proper full nights sleep.

If you feel bad could you just try diluting it first?? That is what i did with DS and it did work.

[Ambinsi]

Simply feeding her more during the day is not an option - she's a difficult eater and won't eat if she doesn't want to.

I might check out the props board, I think the bottle has indeed become a prop.

Update: After eating really well yesterday, she was up at 4:30am. I tried to leave her for a bit but she didn't settle on her own so DH went to make her a bottle. I told him to only give her 4oz...we're going to try to slowly reduce the amount again. Then perhaps replace milk with water?? Thoughts on that?

[Ambinsi]

Case in point - tonight she had a small dinner and then 2 hours later was her bedtime bottle. I saw her getting tired and cranky and it was indeed bedtime, so I offered her a bottle and she only drank an ounce and a half before pushing it away. I waited a few mins and tried again - again refused to drink. We put her down for the night, but....its going to be one of those nights where I KNOW IN MY HEART if she gets up, she's legitimately hungry. I'm assuming I shouldn't regress and try a dream feed at this point, right?

What to do?

[brenda2]

i wouldn't go to a dreamfeed.

i agree with liz that it is a learned hunger and that she is holding out for the night time feed.

when we cut feeds (dds were 6 mo and 8 mo) i went cold turkey and just resettled with shh pat and wiwo and PD depending on their age.  it was a rough couple of nights but ultimately it is over quicker than if you do the diluting the feed and gw.  for both girls they were sttn within 3 nights.

cutting down on amount of feed first is a good step but if you only give the set amount and then she cries for more and you try to resettle for a while and she keeps crying and then you cave and give her more milk then all she's learned is that if she holds out long enough you will give her milk - in the end it makes dropping the feed and sleep training harder. so cut down the feed and stick to that, don't give her more even if she cries for it, but at some point you will have to make the jump to no feed and that may still be hard.  for me is was just easier to do it all at once and go cold turkey.

[*Liz*]

I do understand - my DS is a very difficult eater and always has been - he is a 0.4th centile kid and only 24lb at 2.5.

When he woke at night he was hungry, but he hadn't eaten half the day, but I really felt that at the age he was he needed to eat in the day and let me sleep at night. That is why i diluted his bottle. So I stuck at a 5oz bottle and every few days reduced the amount of powder by one scoop. That way their tummy still fills up enough but they haven't had as many calories to wreak their daytime appetite. Like a big drink for us if we are feeling hungry - enough to take the edge off it iyswim?

I can't make either of my kids eat either - they are both spoon refusers - and both very independent. And that is fine, but that doesn't mean they need to wake at night for bottles.

What you will find though is once she STTN a few times she will 'forget' that she might get a bottle at night when she wakes so you will find that NWings are quite easily resettled with no need to do it again.

When DS was under about 15mths I had the odd occasion when he refused his milk and did wake for it later - but it was usually within an hour or so of going to bed - and on those occasions I did feed. But I was very careful to say it was a one off only.

I only got rid of night feeds at 11.5 in DS and 9 mths in DD, so I do understand.

A dream feed at this age is supposed to interrupt their sleep patterns too much and cause more trouble than it helps.

[Ambinsi]

Yeah, I had a feeling the dream feed was the wrong way to go, so we didn't do it....and she STTN. I'm thrilled she didn't get up, of course, but I'm literally shaking my head in confusion!!! Its like every night could go either way and how she ate during the day is no indication of what she'll do.

I agree that eventually night feedings must stop. I have to add a small detail here - we're currently renovating our house to make room for LO #2, arriving this summer. We're renting an apartment during the renovation and we have landlords downstairs. I know many people live in apartments and are in similar situations but I'm not used to this, and the pressure of her crying during the night waking up other people (landlords) stresses me out and its definitely adding to why I'm quick to offer the bottle. At first DH and I said as soon as we're back in the house (a few weeks maybe) we'll nip this cold turkey, but....I'm starting to think the longer we do the night feedings the worse it will be. I'm also anticipating a period of readjustment when we move back into our house and I'm on the fence about going through this twice, or just once when we move back home.

WWYD?

[brenda2]

i would apologize to your landlords and explain you are sleep training.  since she sttn no feed last night i would go for no feeds tonight and try to resettle without the bottle, or just with a very small amount or diluted bottle.

we lived in a condo with dd1 from 6 weeks to 9 mo (with close neighbours above, below and on all sides) and then moved into a house with tenants below us.  once when dd1 had been up at night a lot for a week or so we took a bottle of wine down to our tenants and apologized for the crying at night.  dh had a harder time with it than i did with feeling guilty about kid noise.  but different situation being the owners of the house i know.

[Ambinsi]

I know, and the truth is that there will ALWAYS be a reason that I'm reluctant to go through this. Last night she STTN again, but its like every night I'm prepared for the worst. I know the longer I attempt to feed her at night, diluted or not, I'm probably prolonging the inevitable, BUT - do you think I should try just water?? She's not a fan of plain water, tends to spit it out. Maybe if she realizes that's all she's getting she'll stop getting up? Or just forget it and try to resettle. I'm again expecting the worst because she barely drank her bedtime bottle.

[Ambinsi]

Wanted to update and see if anyone has additional feedback:

After two nights of STTN, she got up last night at 4 am. I tried to leave her for a bit but she wasn't settling down. I went in to get her, made the bottle just in case as a last resort, and tried to cuddle and soothe without feeding. We walked around a bit and she held her lovey. Finally I did offer the bottle after some time of this, but she only took 2 oz and pushed it away. This morning she has a full blown cold.

Soooo....

Obviously I could have tried much harder to avoid the bottle and I'm sure I should have. Still wondering if I should just offer water??? Pls give opinions on that! She's not a straight-water drinker, so maybe it would discourage her to get up if that's all she's getting.

The fact that she only took 2 oz was interesting to me, she went right back down without a fight. However, I'm wondering if that's related to the cold since she usually doesn't do well on her bottles when she is congested. I'm sure its related.

Another question:
At 12 months old, how much are your LO's eating?? I never know if she's really eating enough although I know appetite varies child to child.

Thanks.