pesky afternoon nap

[~Emma~]

 I'm going nuts. Actual nuts.

 SO for a week we were doing a short AM nap of about 45mins-1 hour. Days went a bit like so give or take.

 Awake - 6am
  E. 6 BF (Solids 7)
  A. 6 - 8.30
  S. 8.30 - 9.15/30
  E. 10 BF (solids 11)
  A. 9.15/30 - 12
  S. 12-2
  E. 2 BF (Solids 3.30)
  A. 2-6
  S. 6 after a bottle of 7oz

 We were getting horrendous NW though. OT I think but the days were going ok. OT built up though and from about 4pm the days were getting pretty gnarly. Lots and lots of crying.

 I have reverted back to trying long naps and its just not working. She will take a long nap in the AM and I wake after 1.5 hours but WILL NOT go down for an afternoon nap. She's so, so tired. Rubbing eyes, crying, yawning after 2 hours 40 but wont settle no matter I do. She would settle fine for afternoon nap before when the AM was short.

 I dont know what to do here. I need to find a middle ground but I'm not quite sure what it is.

[~Emma~]

Anyone? 

[trimbler]

Hugs! I can empathise to some extent as we've struggled with naps from week 1 and our DS is a similar age. Ok I'm no expert at all but I guess what I would try would be to go back to the short morning nap as you were doing before, so she takes the afternoon nap. Then try for an early bedtime? I've always been amazed at the difference an earlier bedtime can make, although I know the first couple of nights I try it he'll spend a long time crying rather than sleeping, but then he'll go down ok by the 3rd night or so. At the moment I'm doing BF when DS wakes after his afternoon nap, then solids an hour later, followed by bedtime feed an hour after that - although this is quite soon (ie only 2h after the last BF), he still takes a decent feed then, and so we go straight to bath and bed. Do you think that might work for you? Also just wondering - when you're doing the longer morning nap, is that after a longer A time? And how long have you dropped the catnap for? We've only recently dropped it, mainly because the other naps weren't long enough. When we still had it, his 3rd A time would only be about 2h as he was quite tired by then - he'd have a short catnap and then only 1.5h A time with the last BF and bath etc. But if you've been down to 2 naps for ages already then maybe it wouldn't make much sense to try introducing it again - it's just another thing I guess you could try if the earlier bedtime doesn't work, although I'm not convinced by that one myself! HTH...

[hjrmom01]

Emma, you know I'm here for you going through the SAME thing!    What is it with these girls?! Apparently D and C have decided to do a little teleconferencing and go crazy monkey on us 

When you were doing the 45/1hr am nap, you were doing 2.5 hrs and then her pm nap?  Do you think maybe she needs a wee bit more time after that am nap before her pm nap?  I'm thinking that may be C's issue. Instead of doing that I was cutting her am nap more to keep her pm nap at the same time as H's (for my sanity!!!) but that was just leading her to be OT....I THINK. Honestly, I have no idea what my crazy child needs for sleep.

Are you trying to keep her pm nap at the same time as B's? What time are you shooting for. Hopefully we can work this out together. (((Hugs))) in the meantime 

[scucci1979]

I guess you can try a short am nap again, but it is a matter of figuring out what A she needs after that. I would try a one hour nap.  sorry sweetie.

I am having my own issues with naps. Sigh.

[~Emma~]

Erin - I am always too scared to extend that A although I know that would make more sense to do that to try and lessen the A to bed as I tihnk thats the culprit for the OT( and yep, part of the reason for that was B's nap!). I'll try that tomorrow though and see what gives as it cant get any worse.

 Today I did short am nap (an hour) then she was hard to get down for her pm nap despite being super tired. SHe only slept for an hour 1h20 (I hate those! ) and had a 5 hour A to bed! She fell asleep on the bottle and was carried to bed passed out....this girl never falls asleep on the bottle/boo...NEVER!  She was tired.

 She has only ever done a CN about 3 times in her life. 

[hjrmom01]

Emma, your day sounds pretty much like mine!!  C did a 1hr a nap that I woke her from but her pm was only 1hr and 10 mins That left about 4 hrs to bed (with a day that was only 11.5hrs).  I try to overlap C and H's nap, too.  For a while C was going down before H (H goes down at 2) but I think I'm going to see if i can get C going down at 2:30...maybe that little bit of time before nap when H isn't around will be calmer?! 

What did her day look like today?  How long did she do between her am nap and pm nap? 

I'm still trying to figure out if C is OT or UT for her pm nap. 

had to wake at 8 (really REALLY bad nap day yesterday)
nap 10:30-11:30 (had to wake)
nap 2:30-3:40
bedtime 7:40 (I tried for 7:30 and had her down at 7:20 but I am sure she was OT)
She tried to fall asleep on the bottle and she just BOUNCED awake and took ages to get calmed down and fall asleep.

I hope D does ok tonight and you get some sleep    I had to take C to bed passed out last night after just 1 hr of day sleep.....hopefully D makes up for the long A to bed with a great night sleep 

[~Emma~]

So you think these naps (1h20) are UT? I think OT here but not sure if thats because with B they were/are always OT!

 I think you might be on to something with putting bub down AFTER toddler as surely OS is a factor most days. I'm giving that a go. How are you nights?

 Last night D went from 6 thru 'til 4am where we offered water for the 1st time. Not happy about it and only really slept for about an hour afterwards then up for ther day at 6. Part of me thinks maybe I should have just fed her. Going to give the water thing 3 nights though and see if something 'clicks' with her. We are also weaning from the breast, only one feed a week. i'll be done in a month. 

 So today going for am nap about 8.15. Seems early I know but she'll be knackered from this mornings shenaningans!

 I think you should presume UT and extend that A. Thats what I'd do in your situation. Things cant get any worse right?

[scucci1979]

Emma, we get 1hr and 20min naps all the time. I don't know if they are UT or OT.    for some it is OT and for others it is UT.  I went through those older posts on the nap boards and didn't find the answer. 

We are night two of no nf and she too has been waking up at 4am. I told myself not to feed. I haven't tried water, maybe I should. We too were up at 6am but I rocked her back to sleep. My arm went numb from her body weight.

[hjrmom01]

Emma, 1hr20 were always OT with H...or OS.  Kinda hard to avoid, though, when you have a toddler    I don't feel C at night anymore either. I tried at the 4am NW and she just wouldn't take it...and she won't take water from a bottle!  So, I refuse to feed at night now!  Lately she's been waking between 3 and 4 and she's moaning and crying so I give her the paci and if needed some Motrin and she'll go back to sleep until 7:30 or 8. 

(((hugs))) for the weaning. That was the hardest thing for me to give up  But C seems none the different so I guess it was more just me than her. And her poor gut is so much happier!  I just couldn't cut my diet down to water and lettuce!

Do you think I should extend the A between the am and pm nap or cut the am to 45 mins?

[scucci1979]

Emma, 1hr20 were always OT with H...or OS.  Kinda hard to avoid, though, when you have a toddler   

true!

[annette.xx]

Emma - when you did 1 hr am nap what A time did you do after...

I remember mashi helping me ages back with DD when she was 8/9 months and id capped the am nap to 30/45 mins - she helped me master it - once I realised that she was still so tired after a short am nap and I reduced the second A time it kind of fell into place - if I remember rightly it was 30 min am nap = 2hr 30 A time, 45 min nap was 2hr 45/3 hrs (had to play around with it) then 1 hour am nap was much more rested so A time went right up to 3 hr 30 - if I put her down any sooner than 5 mins before these times UT caused OT cos she would take longer to fall asleep and then it would tip her into OT and I would get a 1 hr 20 min nap!!...mashi said it took her a loooooonnnngggg time to figure out that 1 hr 10/20 mins were always OT...I had always thought UT but now I think for sure it was UT causing OT before the nap iykwim??!!

maybe try

wake 6
nap - 8.30 - 9.15
nap - 12.15 - 2.15/2.30
then bed - 6pm

Annette.xx

[~Emma~]

Do you think I should extend the A between the am and pm nap or cut the am to 45 mins?

 I would extend the A Erin, although I am ver ynew to this short AM long PM! How'd today go?

 

wake 6
nap - 8.30 - 9.15
nap - 12.15 - 2.15/2.30
then bed - 6pm

 This is pretty much what I was doing and then OT built up really bad. 2 nights and 2 days were then HORRENDOUS with her. Up all night, whining all day. She was so OT so I let her sleep in the AM and then she lo and and behold also went down for the PM. Had an awesome night after that, pretty much sttn. I started to question if she was truly low sleep needs ( which I still think she is...) and maybe needed both naps long. It only lasted that one day and night and once she was caught up on OT she wouldn't go down for her PM nap the next day after letting her sleep long in the AM. Phew...what a saga....Anyways my gut is telling me the A to bed is whats bugging her and it perhaps takes a few days of that long A to bed for the OT to build up?

 Today went a bit like so....

 NW 4am - didn't settle again easily.Slept on and off until 6

 Wake and eat - 6
 nap - 8.20 - 9.20
 nap - 12.20 - 3.00
 bed - 6.30

 Totally unintentional that it ended up this way but she wasn't too bad before bed. Do you think I am playing with fire having such a long A after such a short nap in the morning?
 

 

[hjrmom01]

Emma, I don't think that A is too long after a 1hr nap.  1hr is pretty restorative, in my book. I think that looks pretty good.  We'll see how the night goes!

I was shooting for 3.25-3.5 after our 1hr am nap but as she took her bottle she was almost asleep! I quickly threw her in her bed and now she's crying and I hope she calms herself down and goes to sleep.

You'd think after doing the short am/long pm with H I'd have some what of a handle on this   I never know if I should push the am nap, cut it, or extend the A between naps!  

Oooh, she's sounding VERY upset...I probably should go check on her  

well, that's not good!  She was just so upset and I tried and tried to get her to sleep but she just screamed harder and harder. Wouldn't take her paci. Anytime I'd get her to calm down she'd be quiet for a second and then start up again! It's now 3:20 and she's laying with me in my bed NOT going to sleep.....way too OT and just staring around under the blanket I have on her head. So....maybe 3 hrs is too much? Or it's her teeth???

[annette.xx]

oh so sorry I just realised your LO is only 6 months...this was what I was doing at 8/9 months!! oops!!!

yeah I reckon 3 hrs after a 1 hour nap is just perfect and you know at 6 months babies naturally if left to their own devices fall into 2, 3, 4 hour sleep pattern so 2 hrs then nap then 3 hrs then nap then 4 hrs then bed and apparantly the first nap shortens to an hour so your 3 hrs A time after an hour nap fits in well with this!...

there is a bit about this type of schedule on the website blogginaboutbabies and the lady on the site shows examples of what she did with her son and her twins - I find the example routines really useful - she also used BW and started with a 3 hr then 4 hr routine then developed into a 2,3,4 pattern but hers was actually more like yours I think...

I think you are so right about that last A before bed so I think given your bubs age if it was me I would try to do at least an hour in am maybe more - have you ever done this;

wake 6
nap 8.30 - 10
nap 1.30 - 3
bed - 6.30pm

this is 2.5,3.5,3.5 and allows for the am nap to shorten as and when needed - so if you start getting pm refusal for more than 3 days then you cut 15 mins off am nap and keep pm nap after the 3hrs 30 A time then the 15 mins lost from am nap gets added to the last A - just thinking maybe if you could get back to something like this you could really know when am nap actually needs cutting and do it slowly?...probably already been tried - sorry if you have!!

I just wish I could get to 3 naps let alone 2! Im stuck with a 16 wk old baby that just wont drop the last nap and its getting sooooo tricky now!! oh the joy - and my word do I feel your pain cos its just not possible to see clearly when you have 2 is it!!

Annette.xx