Confused re A times/naps/2-1 etc. Help needed please

[AliG]

Hi there,
I'm wondering if anyone can help shed any light on my A time/nap confusion. Well, not really confusion, just not sure what to do.

My boy is 8mths now and seems very able to handle 3.5hrs A time, if not more sometimes. I know many people do a shorter A time before the first morning nap. But I know for a fact that a short A time would result in a short nap. In order to do a long nap, he has to be really very tired. A good example is even if he short naps in the morning, I don't reduce A times and then he'll do a decent nap later of 1.5hrs ish.

BUT, at what point of A times does it mean they are nearing transition to one nap?? i.e. with an A time of 3.5hrs or more the day isn't long enough to do two long naps - well, unless you want a 14hr day that is! So, when does it become key to do one short nap, one long one? 3.5hrs? 3.75? 4? I know that to do a one-nap day, 5hrs A time has to be ok for an LO.

Am I making any sense? Very baffled here! I'd say he's on the lower end of sleep needs and often is fine with 2hrs daytime sleep total.
Any advice gratefully received. Thank you!

[~Karen~]

Hi, you might want to keep one of the naps a bit shorter in order for the other one to be longer.  So maybe limit first nap to 45 mins and second nap will hopefully be 2 hours.  He's a bit younger than this thread suggested but if you think he handles longer than usual A times at his age then it will probably apply.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

Here's a thread for lo's heading towards the 2-1 if you want to check it out as well and know where it is for when you need it

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=186919.165

[clairebear79]

AliG - I'd like to follow along if thats ok? 

DS is also 8 months & I am also finding that he has to be shattered in order to do a long nap. He does his 1st yawn at 3.5hrs A time in the morning.  I'm in the process of stretching his 1st A time to try & eliminate EW at 5am.  He is currently doing around 3.75hrs followed by a 1.5hr nap but then with a 3.5hr A time after that the day is just ending up too long.  We are averaging 13-14hrs a day & I know this is too much & will be contributing to him becoming OT.  He is sleeping around 2.5hrs a day and between 10-11 at night.

I am also baffled at what to do to move the day later & give age appropriate A times, decent length naps & keep the day at a suitable length. I'm interested to hear what advice you get.

Karen - if AliG needs to limit the am nap to 45mins, should she be doing this after a full 3.5hr A time?  If so should the 2nd A time be reduced?  Or should she put him down for his 1st nap earlier than 3.5hrs in order to create a naturally UT nap?

[AliG]

Clairebear, no worries at all. In fact, you just asked Karen the exact same question I was going to!

As, even if you cap first nap at 45mins after a 3.5hr A time (or 3.75), and then do another 3.5hrs (which my LO would need in order to do a decent nap), the day is still too long! So I'd imagine maybe you put down early in the am so you get an UT nap. Then do same A time you know they can manage - e.g. 3.5/3.75 and then you hopefully get a decent nap. See what I mean?? I'm still baffled though.

At what point do you really start transiton to one nap - 4.5hrs??

Hope the EWs are better too Clairebear...

Argh!

[clairebear79]

AliG - that was my thinking too!  Its just knowing what is the right A time to get a 45min nap!  & then what they can manage afterwards in order to get a 2hr nap.  I've tried this & can't find the right 2nd A time & DS does a 1hr 15min pm nap then has a really long A time to bed meaning he goes down OT. 

We woke this morning at 5.20am.  His 8th tooth is cutting through today so hopefully teething will be over for us for a while now.

[AliG]

I know, it's really confusing. I'm thinking you either go for shorter am nap and longer pm OR two naps of around 1hr 15 each. That way the day is broken up quite evenly. part of me wonders what would happen if you stretched them and dropped to one nap.....!

8th tooth, wow. we have two already and I think the next two are on their way definitely.

[AliG]

p.s. think I might also post on the 2-1 thread as it looks like some other mums over there had babies who started transitioning early - around 6.5mths some of them

[AliG]

p.p.s just realised I haven't thanked Karen! So sorry! Thanks for the tips Karen

[~Karen~]

You'd have to cut the second A time if you were only going to do a 45 min nap.  I'd say 3 hours max, if not less.  I'd keep first A the same, limit nap, cut next A time and then long nap which should (hopefully!) set you up nicely for bedtime!

[AliG]

Problem is, cutting A times doesn't work. Even if he short naps, I then do the same A time (i.e. that I know he can handle) and I get a decent nap.

Is it not feasible that I could do long am nap (so I know he's had one decent one) and then the avo one is more of a CN to get him through to bedtime? Given that as his A time increases that am nap will get pushed further and further back anyway and therefore the later shorter nap will naturally be dropped?

[~Karen~]

That's what I've always done with ds2.  With ds1 the short am/long pm nap worked better so it depends on the baby.  The only thing I've found with doing long am nap and short pm nap is that we started getting pm nap refusal long before he was ready to go to one nap.  Lots of very early bedtimes!

[AliG]

Ah, I'll watch out for that then! Though I guess we've already had that too with the CN. There was that period where it would be too late for a CN but a v long A time until bed. So imagine it will be the same again. Seems the easier way of doing it though with a long am nap that just gets pushed back as A time increases - if LO is able to do long am A times that is.
Thanks for your replies

[AliG]

ok, so, he did a 2hr 25min nap this morning after a 3.5hr A time and a v disrupted night of maybe 10.5hrs max. Put him down for a power CN at 5.10pm (3hrs 25mins after waking) and he took 10mins to fall asleep. Going to cap it at 25mins max and that still means he'll be waking up 2hrs before last bottle is due to make it a 12hr day. I'm just hoping that doesn't mean he'll be UT. This is really difficult...

If the CN is refused after a long am nap and you bring BT forward, does it not matter/affect sleep that it isn't a 12hr day?

[~Karen~]

I've done 10 hour days before!  We may get an earlier wake the next morning but at least he's not as OT as he would be if I kept him up till normal bedtime.  Then there's enough time to fit two naps in easily the next day.

This is really difficult...

Oh yes!  We're still going through the 2-1 switch and one nap isn't quite enough but two is too many.  Will be so glad when he's properly on one nap!

[clairebear79]

AliG - how long is your day normally?  Does your LO usually sleep 12hr nights from 8pm-8am?  Boy you are lucky if that is the case! 

I'm giving up on pushing the am nap out as DS is utterly exhausted & severely OT & generally only getting 10-10.5hrs sleep.  He's not really able to handle the super long A times like your LO can and is only doing them because I am making him, in an attempt to break the EW cycle. I'm going to give short am/long pm nap a try instead.

It sounds like your LO's day may have worked out well today.  I hope you get a decent night!