Advice please 14 week old NW

[Vally]

DD 14 weeks. She sleeps well as she goes to bed at 630am and finally wakes at 730am. I am not sure if I am creating a problem at night. A few weeks ago she did some nights of just one feed at 3am. She has since gone back to two wakings 12 and 4. Last night she woke at 1130, 130 and 5. I don't think she was really hungry at 130am but feeding her sends her straight back to sleep. She is quite s small girl and only weighs 12.4 pounds so I expect to have at least one night waking. So my main questions: she does not like ssh pat, in fact makes her worse so what else could I do? Is it a problem if I feed her for all NW? I am worried that she will only be able to fall back to sleep by feeding and also she ends up drinking lots at night and not particularly hungry during the day. Any advice appreciated.

[annette.xx]

hey there

offering support cos DS is 17 wks and still 2 NF - I too had 3 - 4 NF at 14 wks - he seemed to be constantly waking and I was never sure if hunger so I always just fed!

one thing I have come to realise is that it was also a sign that DS needed more A time but tread very carefully cos I got in an OT loop...UT causes OT cos they have too long day sleep then they wake at night to make up for it then wake in the morning tired still from all the interruptions from night so you do short A again and so the cycle continues!! then I got caught in the trap of him taking so much at night that he wouldnt take alot in day so he became genuinely hungry at night!!

what A time are you currently using? how long are naps and how many?

3 - 4 months is transition from 4 - 3 naps and sleep needs drop down to around 15 hrs per day...

Annette.xx

[Vally]

Thanks for the reply. I am doing A time of 1.5 but this morning tried 1h45 and she is still asleep after an hour so I think that is a better A time for her. She generally has 3 naps with short catnap at 5. Maybe I need to extend A to 1 h 45. Does this sound right? So should she have two long naps and 1 CN?

[annette.xx]

yeah thats what you will work towards - tho please tread very carefully cos I am just getting out of OT and still on 4 naps most days!!! I rushed and it crashed and burned!!

yeah I say if you get a long decent am nap of at least 1 hr 45/2 hrs (wake at 2 hrs to keep on track) then I would shoot for 1 hr 45 A again and let the nap last upto 2 hrs - could look like this:

wake 7.30
nap 9.15 - 11.15
nap 1 - 3
nap 2.45 - 3.30
nap 4.45/5 (no later) 30 min catnap till 5.30
bed - 7

ive put an extra catnap in as you wouldnt be able to get to bedtime without it or you could do 3 long naps but then you run the risk of UT at bedtime from the long last nap...

stick with 1 hr 45 for at least a few days if not more cos I stupidly pushed to 2 hrs after just 3 days and got in a mess!! keep me updated with progress so I can help you avoid the same situation im in!! Ive been there done that so I know how I could have rectified along the way (isnt hindsight such a great thing!!!!! )

Annette.xx

[Vally]

Thanks will give it a go. Ok so 1st nap 1.5 hours which was great. She woke at 1115 so was aiming for1pm nap. She was getting really upset at 1230 so eventually put her down at 145 so only 1.5 A time. She went off without crying. Should I have tried to stretch her out even though she was getting really upset?

[annette.xx]

no i would defo get her down if she is needing sleep or you will end up in the mess i did!!!

actually you could do it as in the book as that has just one A time increasing per 3 days - I would think she might need at least 3 days per A time increase as she is used to sleeping well - I did both am and pm increases and this is probably why I got in a mess!!!

clever mummy for listening to your LO!!

So just keep the rest of the day similar to your usual routine and adjust as needed...

Annette.xx

[Vally]

Thanks Annette. Had another good 2 hour nap this arvo. CN didn't really happen as out in car collecting DS. She didn't really sleep much after her last nap so putting her to bed now at 6pm as she is extremely tired. So thanks for your help today, dedinitley made progress. Will see whst the night holds!! X

[Vally]

I am at a loss. After such a good day with naps hadvthe most distrastrous night. She went to bed at 630pm as usual. She woke at 11,1,3,5 and up at 630am. I dd her each time as so tired and couldn't get her back to sleep otherwise. She seems to feed each time. Whst is going on? I am so tired and really worried that she is going to start doing this everyday. She was doing really well at night with just 2 sometimes even 1 feed. Did she have too much day sleep? Although she did go back to sleep after each feed in the night? Please help!!!

[annette.xx]

the switch to 3 naps is soooo tough isnt it!

Im so sorry you had such a disaster last night - I too had the exact same thing after i thought id finally cracked it!! I had wakings at 10pm/1am/3am/5.30am up for day at 6.30!! I also fed cos so tired!! How spooky that we both ended up in the same boat!!

sarah on the easy board had warned me that by keeping short As and long naps I would end up in an UT causing OT loop again and she was soooo right!!

I reckon thats what happened with you too...at 14 wks when they are transitioning they cant quite make the 2 hours A time so we need to slowly transition them so that means extending A time and keeping 4 naps for maybe another 3 - 6 days then going to 3 ...the nap lengths need to be shorter if you are doing 4 naps...

lets look at the whole day - if she woke at 7.30 yesterday and then had 3.5 hrs of naps then in bed by 6 pm that was only a 10.5 hr day leaving 13.5 hrs remaining in a 24 hr day cycle - do you understand what I mean!!

so 13.5 hrs night sleep wasnt ever going to happen thats what caused the UT night wakings - cos 13.5 hrs plus 3.5 naps = 17 hrs sleep total but at 3 - 4 months bubs transition to needing just 15 hrs sleep so if you want an 11 hr night sleep then you need 4 hrs of naps in day - if you want a 12 hr nightsleep you need 3 hr of naps in day...

so with 1 hr 45 A time it may need to look like this for a few days...

wake 7
nap - 8.45 - 10.15 = 1.5hrs- dont allow more than 1.5 hrs to keep on track
nap - 12 - 1.30 = 1.5 hrs
nap - 3.15 - 4 = 45 mins
nap - 5.30 - 6.15 = 45 mins
bed - 8pm

thats 4.5 total day sleep so you would then be expecting a 10.5 hr nightsleep but bear in mind she will still wake for maybe 1 - 2 feeds so you will have maybe 30 mins to an hour here so that makes wake up time hopefully 11 - 11.5 hrs after bedtime - make sense?!!

I wish I had stuck with this yesterday - instead I tried stretching him again and he took some good naps but cos I wanted to just do 3 naps but 2 of my A times were only 1 hr 45 that made my bedtime too early so too much naps into too short a day!! I should have either stretched to the full 2 hrs or done 4 naps!!

if you find she wakes early from naps then just cut 20 mins off the next A time - that should ward off any OT - then you can let her sleep the extra 20 mins ontop of that nap to keep on track...

the only problem with doing it this way is that feeds are a bit random as day progresses but im finding its actually not a feeding issue its a total sleep issue!!

how is today going?

Annette.xx

[Vally]

Today so far
Awake 630
E 715
S 815 - 945
E 1015
S 1115 - 115
E 115
S 3pm
She is on this nap now but have to wake at 45 min to get Ds.
Don't know what to do for rest of day. It is really hard to make bed later than 630 as she is just so tired by then and goes into her main sleep. Should I be waking her to make her bed later, not overly keen to do that? Should I stick with 1h45 a for few days? I have fed every three hours today as she has seemed hungry and worried that she was getting more at night than day. Do you think I should wake her at the  same time every morning? You said that you too fed at night when LO woke, did this cause major probs?

[Vally]

Annette.
Just to update you. I had to wake her at 345pm and she hasn't slept since. She really won't sleep anywhere other than cot or in peace and quiet, very sensitive girl! So as you can imagine she is an overtired mess and I am just feeding her now for bed at 630pm.

[annette.xx]

Hi there

I reckon your day actually looked quite good - may be a bit of OT from end of the day but you shouldnt get that UT problem too much tonight cos it was a nice 12 hr day with 4 hrs 15 naps so you should get a 11 hr night and a couple of night feeds im sure you will have will make that a 12 hour night so she should wake up at 6.30 or later if your lucky!! I think a little OT is going to have to happen along the way or you will get the same UT mess as ive had for ages...well done you seem to be doing really well...

the night feeds I try and keep as short as possible i.e as soon as I see he is slowly sucking like grazing more then I take him off and put him in cot...

Annette.xx

[Vally]

Thanks. Can you believe she has just woken so have just fed her. She never wakes this early in the night. She had 5 min feed and back to sleep. What is this all about? Do you think this could be a growth spurt? I don't know why else she would be waking so frequently. I think I am in for a bad night!!!

[annette.xx]

I thought you may have a problem with the early part of the night cos of the OT from end of day!

it could be a growth spurt tho...was she born early at all?

Annette.xx

[Vally]

The OT at the end of the day never normally causes any problems. She was only 5 days early. I just don't get it as she was doing so well. Could it be a supply problem although I don't think so. Should I just give up breastfeeding?!!