HV has me confused...

[~Emma~]

 So I had a visit from the HV the other day. She gave me the usual guilt inducing lecture about quitting BF...another story.

 Anyways she told me that by now (7months) baby D sould be on 3 solid meals a day and that I should be well cutting back on my BF to perhaps as little as 2 a day.  Now she is on 3 x solid meals a day but still has 4 milk feeds (3 BF, 1 x FF).

 Is it just me or is this ludicrous?

[~inbalance~]

I think that YOU are the expert with YOUR baby and not her!  Smile and nod at her advice, but use your instinct.  I would think that's ludacris as well.      I'd definitely stick with the 4 milk feeds a day. 

[Shiv52]

God she sounds like an all round nightmare.  I think 2 milk feeds a day is too little for 7 months.  I know with Maeve we did 4 until she 8/9 months and then moved to 3 some days, 4 others. 

But like Martina says, you know what will suit D best. 

(Are you sure you won't report that HV?  Dodgy milk intake advice, CC recommendations, critical parenting advice....she sure covered a lot in such a short visit considering she doesn't really know you!)

[Texomamama]

Like the ladies said above, the advise she is giving you sounds way off base to me.  7 mo and 2 milk feeds?  No way.

[~Emma~]

 Yep, she was a veritable bloody nightmare. I cannot stop thinking about all the 'advice' she gave me. I feel like I am doing nothing right with D and wondering how the hell I managed to get B to aged 2.5!! 

 We did the same with B, he had 4 milk feeds a day until 8 months.

 She said on order for her to sttn I need to intro more and more protein and fill her up with that before bed NOT milk.  She is not waking in the night out of hunger this is the thing. anyways, who gives their baby a feed of meat and then puts them to bed!! I can jsut see baby D tucking into a rack of ribs at 7pm!

 I am just only now intro'ing meat and her purees are more on the chunky side as its always what she's liked. Its the exact same way I did it with B.

[~inbalance~]

Emma, DO NOT let her feel like you are doing things wrong with D or have with B!!  Mummy knows best!

Honestly, you can't do it wrong.  Ok, we all want them to sttn, but if protein were the magic answer then all of us would be trying to stuff meat down their throats as soon as they could have it!  It is NOT that easy, and it doesn't work that way.

Not to mention that meat is not the easiest thing for little tummies to digest.  And this is all assuming that you have a baby that will eat anything (I know D is good with solids, but F was not so if I had been given that advice she would have gotten a right slap upside the head for assuming she knows best for MY baby!).

Does this woman even have children?!?!

Hugs hugs hugs!!  You are doing fantastic reading your own baby!! 

[Shiv52]

Hence the reason I don't bother with my HV!!  Since she tried to tell me at 2 months that Rosa was underweight and I should consider formula I haven't bothered with her.  Before she left though I did point out that the charts were for FF babies and that Rosa wasn't underweight, just on a lower centile and wasn't breast milk not better for babies in the longterm?  And she got all flustered and said 'well yes you are right, i just dont' come across a lot of mummies who BF for very long'.  Grrrr!  This is the same one who told me to give M skips when she was 7-8 months so she could practice eating on her own!  

You have to remember Emma that they are not paid to give advice based on research and/or what is best for babies.  They are given all the advice. sometimes not, and then it is upto them what they pass on.  Alot of it, actually all of it is opinion.   Their opinion.  I got the CC recommendation not so long ago from her too and I did ask her what she thought of current research into CIO/CC and sleep training and she said she hadn't read it.   That to me says it all.  Am sure they are expected to keep upto date with current advice but I do find mine doesn't even know the latest WHO recommendations let alone additional advice.  SO remember she gave you her opinion.  

And wow to you starting meats with D.  She loves her grub!!  R is not overly fussed.  I am starting to think she is intolerant to dairy.  I gave her fromage frais and a puree made with milk and a hipp organic cereal that is milk based and you make it with water and each time we're getting awful mucousy nappies and a wee patch of dry skin on her cheek flares up.   UGH!

[~Emma~]

 Well I gave lentils this week. I dont know I just think its a more gentle way of approaching protein...just my opinion though, not based on ANYTHING! 

 I have tried and tried getting the intolerance thing through to my GP and HV. They will not listen. We had a frank discussion where she said she thinks I am being a fractious mother and I disagreed. My thoughts are based on her skin and her nappies NOT the fact that my DH is away and I am finding things tough! She said I would be irresponsible to dicontinue BF given that its when she has the least issues. True to a certain extent BUT should I continue even if I feel resentful of it?

 ((((hugs)))) Shiv, I hope its not an intolerance I really do.

 My head is up my backside with all of this. 

[Shiv52]

D aleady has a formula feed a day doesn't she? Would the GP agree to a trial of hypoallergenic formula?  THat way you cuold stop BFIng and see does no milk proteins make a difference all in one go?   Or are you on an ED? 

[*Amy*]

Sorry Emma about the hv read your other thread open mouthed? The cheek of her! Unbelievable really!!
DD is a little over 8 months and has 4-5 bottles a day (I weaned at 6 months) she is doing blw and she gets protein and she wakes in the night, just for a cuddle or a reposition or I think to make sure I am still here lol! I know she is getting more milk than she should be but honestly she seems to have an insatiable appetite lol! Had no hv here thankfully, I had ds in Ireland and the hv there was zero help, told me to give solids at 4 months and formula when he was an infant cause he was hungry......he wasn't he was just tired!!

[cuckoochick]

Your HV sounds like my MIL! But at least my MIL is not a health professional. I too am shocked at her outrageous comments.

I know this HV has really knocked you, but everyone is right. You know D best and what is right for her. I'm sure when D wants a rack of ribs, you'll know!! Keep smiling

[~Emma~]

I'm sure when D wants a rack of ribs, you'll know!!

 

Would the GP agree to a trial of hypoallergenic formula?

 Long story short he didn't. He said he would and then when I went to pick up it wasn't there. He left it to his receptionist to tell me that he didn't think I should be putting her on it. Complaint has been made about that one. Wasn't too happy about being fobbed off or the fact that I was discussing medical stuff with a receptionist.

 They wont trial it as her symptoms aren't severe enough. They wont trial without 'definitive diagnosis.' That and money.  I did try to explain that the more formula I give her if she does have an intolerance the worse her symptoms will get. All another story entirely. I have given up on it. I dont have the fight in me right now. I have started adding dairy to her diet and more to mine (hadn't done an ED but cut out the biggies). I'll just have to see what happens with her. Its all quite sad really so I am hoping, hoping, hoping that she doesn't have an intolerance as the guilt will be on me if she does.

 

[Lemonthyme]

My son went from 4 feeds at 10 months to 2 feeds at 11 months (with some encouragement, he didn't drop them himself) and now he's had his first day without a morning BF and he's 1 year old.  2 feeds for a 7 month old is kinda daft.  I don't know a single BF mother who has got to that stage (at least not without introducing combination feeding.)

I don't know much about this kind of stuff but my gut feel is that generally BF is better tolerated than anything else so I would continue to breastfeed if I could but it has to be something you both want to do.  I'm stopping earlier than my LO would ideally want to because I want my OH to be able to put him to bed occasionally!  We all have to do what's right for the whole family.

My LO has his tea at 4:15pm!  Milk at 6:45pm so what on earth she'd think of me?!  There is some research somewhere which suggests that breastfed babies tolerate new foods with fewer allergenic responses so if you can stand to carry on a bit longer, it might help as you introduce the protein foods?

Anyway, it is up to you and you've done brilliantly for getting this far.  Bear in mind that even 10 years ago, women who breastfed routinely gave up at 6 months anyway as that was the done thing!

[Mama2C]

DS is 14 months and he still has 4 BF a day...as well as 5 solids - breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner... and he is doing great! At 7 months he easily had 5-6 BFs a day...plus solids every few hours... goodness gracious I mean BF/FF should still be the priority at this age!!

[Mashi]

Pees me off so much when doctors have attitudes against HA formula.  The only way to get this 'diagnosis' that he wants is to TRY it!!  Any chance you are able to pay for it on your own Emma...it is expensive (about 14 quid per tin, and one tin got me about 3 to 3.5 days at that age) but if you could do it for a week then you pretty much have your diagnosis and can insist on a paed referral - and a paed will give you that script!

[~Emma~]

 I've given up. I am now combo feeding. I know I probably should keep BF'ing exclusively for longer but I am done. I have been taking fenugreek for 3 months now and it really messes with my guts and I've had enough of worrying about my supply. She's not interested either and I cant make her.

 I am intro'ing solids as I would normally. Not holding back. Not to prove a point you understand if something should come about that she does have an allergy but more a case of me feeling defeated. If 2 health professionals in as many days can tell me they dont think its the case then I have to take their word for it I suppose.

 FWIW - She had 2 x btl formula yesterday and yoghurt after main meal. I was up all night last night with her. I dont know if its a coincidence or what. Apparently, according to the HV I am encouraging her to wake by dealing with her wrong when she does wake. I did laugh at that and so did my friend when I told her....clearly doesn't have a clue about me esp when it comes to sleep. 

 Been thinking about paying for the formula myself....

[Lemonthyme]

Btw - and don't feel pressured at all, my LO went through a stage of being really a pain in the bum on BF and would only BF when he was sleepy but then would BF really well.  It's worth a try if you do want to keep going.  My SIL is a medical herbalist and she suggested for supply just to either have nettle tea (disgusting) or calmomile tea (probably to chill me out).  TBH though generally people just think they have a supply issue rather than really having one just coz it's so difficult to see what they're getting.  I'd drop the fenugreek anyway but carry on the BF if you want.

[Fiver]

Oh, don't get me started on HVs!!!

Up to 12 months, solid food is experimentation and explorations.  Most calories should still be coming from milk feeds, be that formula or breastmilk.  Seems some HVs are obsessed with babies STTN and think solids are the answer.  Yes, sometimes they are, but equally sometimes they cause more problems than they solve.  Argh and grr in equal measure on your behalf, Emma!!

I'm sure there was something else I wanted to say, but it escapes me for now.... *mutter mutter*

[Shiv52]

Hugs Em. Just thinking it might be a good idea to keep a food diary of what D eats and how she sleeps just to see can you notice any patterns. Prob keep a track of Nappies too. Just in case things do get worse with more solids and formula, least you have something more concrete to go to the GP with if you feel you need to push it.

((((hugs)))))

[Mama2C]

I was thinking of your post this afternoon... I encourage you to contact her supervisor. Her advise is wrong - lessen BFing at 7months? What? And she is clearly upsetting you. This isn't okay. Thank goodness you have your strength and know you go with your own "plan" for your child. But she could be causing a ton of distress (already is evidently) and she could really demean a lot of moms.

Keep doing what you know is best for your child. For what it's worth, my son was really big and I was told to up solids at 6 months but that just made him wake up MORE! Sigh! Some babies just aren't ready to STTN or aren't ready for the same steps as others at certain ages. As long as your child is gaining weight steadily and is happy and healthy then you are on the right track! And if your child does have intolerances, then introducing MORE solids earlier is just going to cause more problems. In my opinion, there is no rush to introduce solids. Go at your child's pace and know that you are an awesome mom.

[Lemonthyme]

I was thinking today how sometimes when I introduced something new, his nappies changed.  Sometimes his poo (sorry) went really sticky for a bit then settled down.  I've been such a worry wort about allergies as well because of my job (I work in food) and he's so far shown no signs of any but I thought he might have an egg allergy (it was just his eczema playing up) or tomatoes (nope, second time there was no reaction). 

[~Emma~]

Just taking it slowly really. Her eczema is playing up but who knows if its to do with food or not. The GP didn't seem to think so...

[*Amy*]

One of the mums on the birth club 7-9 months got her lo allergy tested cause of eczema. Turns out she is allergic to a whole range of foods from eggs to wheat! Is is possible for you to do?she is in Europe somewhere (Italy I think) xx hugs

[Lemonthyme]

I'd be wary of it.  I have no scientific basis for thinking this but I'd be shocked if babies didn't have some mild reactions to things to lose them later.  It would be sad if a child was labelled with multiple allergies which they never needed to be, especially as it could become self fulfilling; ie you don't give the food because the test said they were allergic and then they become allergic or the reaction gets worse because they were never exposed to it?  I might be talking rubbish of course.

[~inbalance~]

Emma, I do think eczema is almost always caused and/or aggrevated by something that's been eaten.  I would keep an eye on it when it flares and try to figure out what might be causing it. 

[Lemonthyme]

My LO has eczema and I don't find that tbh.

[Shiv52]

{{{hugs Emma}}}

Hows she been?  My GP told me that unless R has diahorrea there is no way there is any evidence she has a dairy intolerance.  I know from all my reading that is just not true.  As with everything, GPs and HVs aren't always as upto date with things as they should be and rather than saying 'i need to do some reading into that, could you come back tomorrow?' they just go with the little info they have.

I had elimated R's cereal (cows milk in it) and yogurt for two weeks until yesterday and then gave her a fromage frais at lunch (obviously she was still getting dairy through my milk though) and an hour later she was screaming in pain and obviously in discomfort and would not settle for a nap and then she had a few big farts then did a poo and it was a horrible mucousy nappy. THe rest of the day her little patch of exzema on her face was really red.  So i am convinced she does have a dairy intolerance and am going back to the doctors this week.  Not sure what i think he's going to say but I am not taking his 'without diahorrea its not an intolerance' excuse any more. 

You know D best and if you think dairy is annoying her then do go back.  I'm almost not wanting to pursue it because the thought of giving up dairy does not appeal to me at all but if you are willing to give the HPA formula a try and give up BFIng (which I know you have been considering) you probably could trial dairy free with D for a few weeks easier than if you were having to do it yourself too. 

{{{hugs}}}}     

[~inbalance~]

Eczema is a catchall term really for a lot of different things.  But the skin the biggest organ in the body, and it makes sense that what is going on on the outside is a reflection of what is happening on the inside.  I have read many times that what you eat can be linked to how your skin looks, be it eczema or acne or another kind of rash.  So it stands to reason that if there is no obvious external reason for a skin condition to be flaring up, that you need to look on what is going on internally, and that includes taking a good look at what is being eaten.  Just to give some ideas.

[~Emma~]

 I feel its what getting to her. I really do. I can cut it out of her diet, I can cut it out mine but I cant cut it out of formula ( so then I feel whats the point kwim?) and the GP wont listen, neither will the HV. The GP agreed that it was bad but said that hydrocortisone will make it better. (treating the symptom NOT the cause  ) She does have crazy BM's ranging from mucous poop to constipation. Although no mucous for over a week now.

 The HV egged me to keep BF'ing when I was ready to stop about 2 months ago but have kept going.  I understand what she is saying about the BF'ing I really do but i'm more than ready to stop. She's taking a good feed from me in the morning and thats it, the rest of the time I have a fight on my hands. I want to keep the AM feed as we both enjoy it and thats how it should be.


 I have been offered a referral to a dietician as a GP cant prescribe without 'definitive diagnosis.' Hoewever the HV slipped and actually told me its to with money. Grrrrrrr. I said thats ridiculous because the amount of money it would cost for a dietician to advise what i can do myself (dairy free diet!) will cost MORE than what it would for the GP just to give me the bloody formula. PLus the dietician would have to get me the formula anyways as part of trialling dairy free. Again grrrrrrrrr....

 As some of you know this HV has given my parenting a good knock. She's made me doubt myself and my instincts which is why I have not chased it up again and slapped some steroid on her skin. I then have lucid moments like now when I want to pursue it for D's sake.

 She's actually been ok the past few days. Skin crap as usual and a bit constipated. Up with gas at night but this is all the norm.

 Sorry about the rant there. Thread gone a wee bit off topic.

 Shiv honey you go for it. Let me know the outcome. PLease, please keep me posted.

 

[Shiv52]

{{{hugs Em}}

I would ring and get that referral.  Least you can talk to someone who knows what they are talking about. Even if its just to tell you dairy is not as issue.  And you are right, unless you can eliminate all dairy there is no point. 


Just watch that cream.  My HV gave it to me for Rosa and it made her skin so so much worse. 

I'll keep you posted on things here xx

So it stands to reason that if there is no obvious external reason for a skin condition to be flaring up, that you need to look on what is going on internally, and that includes taking a good look at what is being eaten.

Funny I went for a facial a while back and the girl was talking alot about this.  Was able to show me that different areas on the body represented different internal organs and showed me the area that was related to renal organs and said it was clear I wasn't drinking nearly enough water which was totally true!     

[~inbalance~]

So many ((hugs)) Emma, I can hear the exasperation in your posts and it breaks my heart.     It's not fair that you are being given the run around when all you want is what's best for your precious baby girl.

No worries about getting off topic hon, but if you think you'd just like somewhere to vent and some hugs, I would be happy to move this where needed, maybe the couch.  Or if you'd like some more advice re food allergies I can move it there also.  Just give me the word.  Otherwise, if you'd like to talk solids we can certainly keep it here and keep supporting you.