2yr Bedtime battles but no NW

[ryates71]

Hello Ladies,

Please help me!  All outta ideas and getting desperate!

Harry turned 2 in April.  I love him to bits but his bed time antics are driving us crazy!  I feel like I'm walking on eggshells for the whole evening - it's like trying to negotiate with a terrorist!  Let me give you some info:

We have a 6yr old girl and 2 yr old boy.  After "muck" (milk   and a bit of a tv time both kids go up for bath together (7pm).  Sometimes he doesn't want to get out of the bath, so I had to make it a bit fun by wrapping him up in his towel and pretending he's my present.  We do this a few times in the bathroom and then a few times in the bedroom.  We then go into negotiation over getting the nappy on.  If we get through this without tantrum we move onto PJ's.  Once that marathon is over we get the baby gro on, give night-night kisses and cuddles to big sister and departing parent, read 4 books (same books every night, same order), then have a cuddle whilst listening to his music, then eventually get into bed.  It takes at least 30 mins after bathtime.  Sometimes Daddy has more luck than I do.  Sometimes we do a tag team.  And other times (recently I have been away with work) so Daddy gets to do the whole thing on his own.  Oh, and sometimes I get forcably ejected ("Night-night Mummy, Daddy [sit]down"  ).

Tonight was a good night, we managed the whole palaver without a single meltdown.  There was some roling around the floor. Between getting the gro bag on and books.  Then after the second book he was fixated on the back cover so I carried on to the next book and read.  Eventually he put the book down and we read the third book together.  The after he lay down in bed (voluntarily  a first for me in about 3 months!) he kissed me good night then moaned and groaned for 10 mins after I left until Daddy came in (then went out with 2 pats).

He is VERY routine fixated.  
On a bad night he wont get out of the bath, rips his nappy off when you put it on, wont put PJ's or baby gro on, and then the whole thing is in meltdown.  There doesn't seem to be any particular trigger to this.  These nights it can take up to an hour to get him down.  And if we try to change or skip any part of the whole sorry routine (e.g. going up to bath before DD, only 3 books, etc.) it just takes twice as long.  Quite often he ends up crying it out because we have another child who also likes a story or two at night.  And on more than one occasion I have had to physically restrain him to get nappy, PJ's and babygro on whilst he crys and wails. My husband has more patience than I do.  It makes me very frustrated.

The rest of the night he sleeps ok (pretty much).  He has done some heavy duty bed wetting recently.  Wakes anytime between 6:30 and 7:30.

During the daytime he won't nap for me at home anymore.  But as he's in Nursery 5 days a week where he sleeps fine so it's just the weekends we have to worry about.  Sometimes at the weekend we skip the nap due to circumstances (e.g. Hubby's birthday BBQ last weekend).  If I can, I try to go out for a walk or drive at the appropriate hour so that he has at least 45 mins.  At nursery I have asked them to wake him at 1hr 15m because I found if he slept really long then he wouldn't go down well.  Now though it's pretty much every night we have some sort of bed time meltdown.  He did drop his morning nap really young though too (about 1 yr).

Other than that he is a bright, active, healthy toddler.  He eats well.  Is very sociable.  Loves cuddles (and especially his sister). Has the normal 2 year old tantrums (lots of wailing and moaning but generally all over in 20 mins)

I can't think of what else might be of relevance so let me know if any questions.

How do I stop letting my toddler dictate the whole sorry routine?  
How do I make it less stressful?  
How do I reduce it to a sensible length?  
Oh yes, and he's still in a cot - so should I try a bed?

We are going on holiday with the extended family in a weeks time (8 adults, 6 kids) and I am really worried that the whole night time drama's are going to make it even more stressful for me.  Please give me back some control! (and self-esteem).  

Rachel
x

[~inbalance~]

Hi Rachel!  He sounds like he might be a bit of a spirited little guy, no? 

Can you post his routine so that we can see what is going on?

I do remember that at 2yrs we had to revamp DS1's bedtime routine a bit because he was resisting bedtime.  We started making it more toddler like and less 'baby-like', so after bath he would come downstairs.  We would let him watch a short show while getting him dressed, and give him a small bedtime snack.  Then it was toothbrushing, books, and up to bed.  That seemed to help a lot.  It's just like he needed a new way to wind down.

[ryates71]

Hi Martina,

I don't know if he's spirited or just two!  Although this bedtime saga has been going on since before he started the tantrum phase.  He is very very stubborn though.  This morning he had a meltdown because I refused to carry him downstairs (I've got a bad back).  But then I discovered that Daddy has been carrying him downstairs every day so I told Daddy off instead!  Also he is a bit Obsessive Compulsive though.

His routine isn't very fixed but usually goes on these lines:

Week Days:

6:30 to 7:30am - Wakes, moans and cries out a little but we don't go in for a while and if it's an early wake he will sometimes go back to sleep.  If he has leaked through the night nappy he usually wakes early.
7:30 - Milk infront of the TV
8:00 - to DH takes him to nursery
8:15 - breakfast
10:30 - Snack
12:00 - Lunch
12:30 - Sleep (1hr 15m max)
2:00 - Milk and snack
3:45 - "Tea" (light meal)
5:00 - 5:30 - pick up (with DD)
6:00 - Dinner for DD - depending what it is Harry will usually have some too, but some days hungrier than others so I don't push it.
6:30 - milk infront of TV, although quite often if he's been out of sorts this seems to be a bit of a pick me up for him and he ends up with more energy rather than winding down.
7:00 - Upstairs, brush teeth, bath with DD
7:30 - In to bedroom, nappy on, PJ's on, 4 books, a cuddle, line down, exit parent

This last part tends to not get completed until 8:15/8:30 depending on number of meltdowns that occur along the way.

Weekends tend to be more fluid.  But along the lines of:

6:30 to 7:30am - Wakes, moans and cries out.
7:30 - Milk infront of the TV
8:30 ish - breakfast
1:00 - Lunch
3:00 - Sleep in Buggy or car or sometimes not at all.
5:00 - 5:30 - Dinner
6:30 - TV and milk
7:00 - Upstairs, brush teeth, bath with DD
7:30 - In to bedroom, nappy on, PJ's on, 4 books, a cuddle, line down, exit parent

When I put it this way it might sound rather easy so what am I complaining about but that last hour or so is completely full on, trying to plot a course to bed time without a meltdown, chasing small child round the bedroom trying to get nappy, pj's and gro bag on, trying to divert at the first sign of a meltdown, and (quite often) trying to get back on track after a meltdown.

I am willing to try a change in the routine as long as DD doesn't end up being left alone.  At the moment they both come up together which is good as it's easier to get 2 children going in the same direction rather than splitting them up so an earlier bath time would have to be for both of them.

Oh, and on occasion he has ended up getting his milk after bath whilst reading which he does seem to like and often he asks for milk at this time even if he's just had some downstairs.

Does this help?

Thanks,
Rachel

[Tweakster]

We have the same kid...literally!  Even the part about 'mommy go and daddy sit down'. That's totally Finn!

I'll be back to the thread but agree with Martina about the routine.  We've had to really revamp it.

[ryates71]

Hi Wendy!  How's Finn? 

I seem to remember our LO's were similar at some of the earlier stages too!  How funny.  It's been so long since I popped in I didn't expect to see any familiar faces :-)

How do you suggest I start to tweak the routine?  What's Finn's routine like now?

Thanks,
Rachel

[Tweakster]

Hi Rachel!  You are right, our boys are just a few weeks apart and seem to have the same temperament.

I'm still here hehe moderating and commiserating about toddler sleep ;-)

No actually year 3 is turning out great for us so far...I have to say.  The biggest thing we found is that the nap was too long and we were continually getting into UT/OT loops.  So we rectified that with a nap cut recently and earlier bedtime and now he does 11 hours at night, something I never thought I would see.

His day looks like:
Awake 6:30/6:45/7
Nap 1ish - 2:30 (no more than 1 hr 30)
Bedtime asleep by 7:30/7:45

So what happens is that he is tired from his nap cut so we do an earlier bedtime and he'll often sleep a longer night.  But then, he gets caught up and his nights start dropping a bit.  Example, he was up by 6:30 this morning, the earliest it has been in ages.  So we'll do a later bedtime again to keep him on track.  It's a lot of shifting things, following him and responding to what we are seeing, which is what Tracy only ever wanted for us all in the first place!

What I found is that we were missing his sleep window.  So just after dinner he was tired, but went into a second wind shortly before bedtime.  So now we do dinner later and then kind of move straight into bedtime routine after dinner.  He gets his 3 bears (vitamins) and milk and a TV show (whatever is on when we are doing bed) and then straight up to bedtime - teeth on the way to room, then pajamas, and the final bedtime spiel.  Sometimes if we are doing a later bedtime we will do what Martina does, PJs and then down to relax on the sofa with us and swing it that way. 

In your day up there (week days) I think he needs an earlier bedtime.  You may be missing his window too.  We get all the shenanigans (I completely understand all the negotiating and my DH also has more patience for it lol) when he's in second wind and it literally takes two of us to wrangle the kid to bed.  If we hit the sleep window, he's mellow, chilled and seems to go to bed easily.