9 month old 1.5hr am nap 30 min pm nap...what am i doing wrong?!

[lily528]

ok some of you know me from my post in p.u./p.d. which is becoming the wrong place for me to post lol we are having all sorts of sleep problems I hardly know what to tackle first.  My DD is completely capable of self soothing.  Though she will try to fight me on it it usually does not last more than a minute or two before she is quiet and snuggling her bunny after I walk out of the room for naps and BT.  Not ALWAYS but most of the time.  BT I have been having my husband put her down after I give her her last feeding..she seems to not protest as much when he puts her down like she does with me.  The nw-ings are all me...and they have been every 2 hrs or so lately.  I nurse her back. I know that is the wrong thing to do but she just SCREAMS if I do ANYTHING else.  Clearly I KNOW she doesn't need to be eating that often at night...IF at all..but I guess that is a post for the nightwakings board lol  back to naps...

first I will post our typical kind of day...

6:15 wakes and BF's
7:30 Breakfast
9:15 nap (3 hr A time) 1-1 1/2 hr nap
10:15 BF's
11:30-12 Lunch
1:15 nap (3 hr A time) 30 min nap :/
2:15 BF's
4:30 Dinner/Dessert
5;30 Bath
6:00 BF's
6:30 Asleep (wakes several times a night...first waking usually 3-4 after BT)


of course this varies but it's pretty close to what we are doing now...she often fights the afternoon nap and I end up nursing out of desperation to get her to fall asleep...I dunno if it's too much A time or not enough?  she WAS doing 2 hr A time but I slowly moved it to 3 thinking that wasn't enough A time for her age...this helped the am nap but not the pm nap...any help is appreciated...thanks guys...

[*Kara*]

How old is she Melissa?

The NW's could very well be the result of OT... she has a really long A time before bed, given the 30 minute nap.

[Shiv52]

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652

At 9 months A time would normally br at least 3.5 hours.  I think 3 hours is too short after a good 1.5 hour nao so she is UT and then ending up OT by bedtime.

Something more like:
6.15 Wake up (3.5 A time)
9.45 Nap  (1.5 hours)
11.15  Wake up
2.45 Nap   (3.5 hours A time)
4.15 Wake up
7/7.15 Bedtime

This would be more typical at this age.  It is a tricky age as A time needs to be long enough for them to take 2 naps but there are hardly enough hours in the day.  So it is fine for the day to be 12.5/13 hours at this stage and for us it moved back to 12 hour day and night when we moved to one nap.

{{{{hugs}}} on the NWs.  Does she still stay awake for a long time even if you do feed?  Often NWs at this age is a sign they are needing longer A times in the day so hopefuly an increase in A time to a routine similar to above will help with the NWs too xx

[lily528]

Awesome thanks for putting it in black and white for me that is exactly how I operate   so now two questions ...1. I assume I stretch her A time slowly like how 15 mins later for two days then the other 15 mins? Or slower?  2. What do I do if her nap is still short?  You said that is too long of an A time before bed. How long SHOULD it be?  3.5 hrs?  Do I need to somehow get her to take that catnap if I only get 30 mins? If so 30 mins would bring me to 3:15 when would u squeeze in a catnap? Or would I maybe just do an earlier BT?  Thank  you for your reply. I hope this works. In essence you think this can help with the night wakings?

[ZacsMumme]

We always stretched our A time very slowly, but DS is touchy...maybe try 10 mins every few days and see how she goes? Personally if you have dropped the CN I wouldn't go back but try early BT to see if she makes up the hours overnight. Or you could try APing back to sleep for that 30 min one, you may be able to get another 30 mins?

(HUGS) getting those A times is hard aye! as soon as we get a good routine it gets thrown out with teething and then I have to start all over x

[lily528]

What is APing?  I have never been able to get her back to sleep once awake.  I tried p.u.p.d. a few times and she just SCREAMS. When she was younger a few times the shh/pat worked but now that she stands up she freaks out.

[Shiv52]

What is APing?

AP=Accidental parenting
APOP= accidental parenting on purpose...so this is what you would use to get a longer nap or CN because you KNOW you are using a prop to serve a purpose

1. I assume I stretch her A time slowly like how 15 mins later for two days then the other 15 mins? Or slower?

I would add 10-15 minutes for 3-4 days and then add the next.  While you are changing them it is important to be consistent to let her body get used to the extra time.

 

2. What do I do if her nap is still short?  You said that is too long of an A time before bed. How long SHOULD it be?  3.5 hrs?

After a half hour nap you're probably looking at 2.45/3 hours A time depending on what your LO can handle. 

Do I need to somehow get her to take that catnap if I only get 30 mins? If so 30 mins would bring me to 3:15 when would u squeeze in a catnap? Or would I maybe just do an earlier BT?

It really does depend on your LO.  Hopefully the longer A times will mean she'll nap longer so it won't be an issue but I tended to AP a CN to get us to normal bedtime.  Early bedtimes did not work for us as she never tacked on the lost day sleep.  She still just woke 11.5 hours after bedtime and I didn't want to get into EWs and all the rest so we stuck to normal bedtime so often I would AP a very quick CN in the car or buggy just to get us through.  But if early bedtimes work then that is also the way to go but can be difficult to do with two LOs IYKWIM? 

In essence you think this can help with the night wakings?

Well that is always the hope!!!  But yes, LOs do tend to sleep better at night if they are getting adequate day sleep and enough A time.  That being said it is often harder to elimate NWs if there is a prop involved.  Are you feeding when she first wakes or trying to settle and then feeding after a while? 

[Shiv52]

Forgot to ask....any teething ot developmental milestones causing havoc? Standing?  Crawling etc?

[lily528]

How do I nap her every 3.5 HRS if she is nurses every 4 HRS?

She stands...travels ....and crawls. Has been for over a month now and dr says she has 4 teeth coming in on top. Nothing cutting yet and that was several weeks ago. She already has 2 bottom teeth. I def think gum pain could have something to do with her nw-ings and wanting to nurse.

[lily528]

Mostly feeding when she first wakes. That first waking sometimes a back rub gets her back to sleep. After that I usually nurse for any other waking s

[Shiv52]

At this age feeding times adjust.  It is not as important to feed on a 4 hourly schedule but more important that they are getting enough throughout the day. 

So our routine was something like:

8am Wake up and BF
9am Breakfast
11am Snack
11.30 Nap
1pm Wake up and BF
1.30pm Lunch
3.30pm Snack
4.30pm Nap
5.30pm Wake up and BF
6pm Dinner
8pm BF
8.30pm Bed time


Make sense?

[lily528]

I think so. Guess we'll see if she sleeps thru her usual feeding time. This day is going to be whacky lol I have to work too so I will prob have to come feed her because I wasn't prepared for two feedings while I was gone. I usually feed her before I go in. Any suggestions on snacks?  She gags on most everything.  Wont even eat 3rd foods. I give her puffs and pieces of soft bread. Tried small pieces of soft fruit but she wanted nothing to do with it. Will let u know how today goes.

[lily528]

well first nap after 3hrs and 15 min A time was 1 hr long...not horrible

2nd nap after 3 hrs and 15 min A time was 20 mins (worse ever) sigh i don't get it...

[Shiv52]

At this age it will take 3-4 days of consistency to see if the A time change is going to help.  Were you able to resettle either of those naps?   I would definately be trying to extend the naps for 10-15 minutes to see if you can get her back to sleep. 

did you do a CN or early bedtime then?

{{{{hugs}}}}

[lily528]

extend the am nap too?  how long SHOULD the naps be?  2hrs each?  how do I extend?  There really is no AP I can use.  once she is up she is up...i tried nursing a few times but it never worked.  I haven't the slightest clue on how to get her to go back to sleep.  the plan is to first try for a cn but I am not sure how that will go or when to even do it cause she woke at 3pm...when would you try for a cn at that point?  she is with my mom so she takes a bottle at 4:15..told my mom to try giving it to her in a dark room and rock her and see if she falls asleep...if she does should she just hold her?  or try putting her in the crib?  if she doesnt I guess the next thing would be an early bt?  what time?  i get out at 5...prob wont get home til 6