Nws + EWs + short nights are back.What do I do with this kid????

[Grants]

Hi ladies,

Some of you already know that M has trouble with his sleep. Nws + Ews. We seemed to have 'almost' fixed his Nws (we still have a few bad nights but not as bad as it used to be).
I never thought I would write a post about this ( my posts used to be more about M’s Nws) but I can’t take M’s EWs any longer!! I used to say “ as long as M sttn I’m fine with the Ews” I was so wrong. I thought I was really tired because of the  NWs+EWs combo. But the Ews don’t help with the tiredness. I mean, I def  feel  better having uninterrupted sleep but the Ews are driving us insane!! Dh is even thinking about taking a day off , on a day that M is at nursery ,just to sleep.
 
Current routine:
Wake up: between 4:45-5:05am
Nap: between 11:30-12:00 (1 hour only)
BT: 7:30pm

We try rub his back to help him go back to sleep every single morning but he won’t have it. Sometimes it looks like he goes back to sleep, I leave the room and then 5 mins later he is awake again.  

I have tried everything!!!

-We have blackout curtains.
-Groclock is set for 5:30am atm. He is not allowed out of the cot before 5:30am.
-Long nap (longer than 1 hour)=Nws and Ews( even when M has bad nights he still wakes up between 4:45-5am)
-Long nap and late BT= the same wake up time
-BT earlier than 7pm=even earlier wake up
-Early nap and allowed to nap for as long as he like= even earlier wake up time.
I have tried so many things. I have even tried leaving some Shreddies, with no milk, for him in the cot for breakfast but he just ignored it and wanted out of the cot    

This kid just doesn’t like sleeping! He is only 20 months and has been on 1 hour nap for the last month. I don’t even think he has enough overall sleep for his age TBH. He only has an average of 9.5 hours night + 1 hour nap. Is it 10.5 hours overall enough for a kid M’s age?
I don’t know if anybody will be able to help. Maybe someone has a novel idea?

Many thanks for reading  

[sianie]

{{Hugs}}....sorry things aren't too much better!

Is there anything developmental/teeth etc going on?

When you were getting NW's, was his WU time later or were you still getting EW's?

Have you thought about trying W2S? If it's more that the EW has become a habit rather than something making him wake at that time (the light mornings/noise etc) then it could be worth a shot?

[babybarr]

It's neverending isn't it?!

I wonder about doing something like not giving him a nap and doing an early bedtime and see what happens OR giving him a super late night to see what happens and hope he sleeps later to shift the whole day?

The only other thing I though is it may just be his body adjusting to STTN. Remember he isn't used to sleeping 9hrs straight and he may just sort himself out?

[huby]

My lo woke at that time for her first 15 months, got so much better whenshe was on one nap at 11 months and has started waking at four again so am gonna nap cut again as I knowits exhausting all round. But she n other kids I know do tend to wake early when getting used to sttn xx

[Grants]

Siane, No teething etc … He has always had EWs since birth. He never ever woke up after 5:50am even when he was having all the Nws. I haven’t tried W2S. I always thought that W2S should be used with much younger children???

Laura, I like the idea of a ‘super late BT’. I should try that on the weekend. What is a ‘super late BT’ for you? I have tried 8:40pm and it didn’t work. I mean, I couldn’t try long enough( like 5 days or so)  without having to fix it with a longer nap the next day as he still wakes up early with a super late BT and then can’t cope with only 1 hour nap.  How much later BT should I try with 1 hour nap? The ‘no nap’ scenario is not for us atm. He is really tired by 11:30am most days as he wakes up too early. I don’t think he can cope without a nap.

Huby, I’m not so sure if I can cut M’s nap for now. He is so young and is only having 1 hour nap. How old is your lo? 

[babybarr]

I meant like go out in the evening for dinner and put him down maybe at 9.30pm - I probably would let him have a longer nap that day - it just may get you on a better footing to start the next day later with perhaps a later nap?  IDK - thinking out loud here!

[Tweakster]

Does he have ALL his teeth then Grants? 

I personally don't believe that EW is set in stone.  I have seen it for several months in our house whereby there were days I had to wake up my kid after 7!  And this was a kid who was the same, anywhere between 5-5:30 for over 2 years of his life.  Now he's back to EW.  So for us it's partially routine, partially developmental. There's no magic answer, but there are things you can do to stay sane.

My two cents is to let him have a long nap and do a late bedtime.  And yes, by late I mean when he is tired enough to go to sleep.  I do believe he will sort himself out soon but I also think you guys need to be happy in the family and EWs is not happy making.  I totally understand.  I always felt EW were far worse than NW because your whole day shifts to an unreasonable point.

I know you say you have tried a long nap but when was that and how long did you do it for?

[Grants]

Wendy, M only has 16 teeth. He is a very slow teether. I don’t think the EWs are related to teeth at all. I know it can happen with a lot of los but M has always had Ews even when he was too young to be teething. M has had Ews since birth really.

Yeah, I know what you mean about F. I have read some of your posts in the hope I could use some tips. Miguel is a bit different from Finn in the sense that F has been a great napper M is not such a good napper. He normally sleeps for 1.5 hours if left to it. He will do  2 hours if he is really tired after long Nws and busy days. But he won’t do 2 hours nap for a few days in a row, iykwim.

I kind of like your idea if M was a bit younger but I don’t want him to have long naps for the sake of a late BT.I would love him to learn to sleep longer during the night, really. I love the only few hours I have with DH in the evenings plus I don’t want him to start having long naps when I have to cut it in a few months anyway. I have tried the long naps a few weeks ago(for +-7 days)  before starting him on the 1 hour nap( I was reluctant to try him on only 1 hour nap as he is so young, so I tried everything I could before doing the 1 hour nap) . Then I tried it last week for only 1 day and it was a disaster! He had 3 NWs, one of which was for 1.5 hours .

[huby]

Hi
LO is 21 months, and didn't nap at all today. I tried, she wouldn't, so I left it and asleep by 7pm. Tonight will probably be hellish.
She was doing 2 hrs, but we were getting EW to start with then really EW and now NW and EW, so tomorrow i will do one hour or 1.5 hrs and 7.30 bedtime.
If she has a 2 hr nap now, she's awake til about 8.40 / 9pm and then EW and NW whereas before I was getting 8-8am for a bit with a 2 hr nap. We are teething here, but it's impossible to get her back to sleep again as she so well rested from her nap, while before it was possible after an hour or so with meds.
Hmmm, it's all fun and games.
If it's any concilation our NW can be around 2 hrs right now. x

[Kay Dee]

Hiya, have you tried sticking with the 1hr nap but having it much later in the day, like 1-2pm? I think that would help. My DD has her nap at 1pm at the moment. I've noticed that if I put her down earlier her wakings creep earlier and earlier. And then she needs the nap early and we get into a vicious circle of early naps and EW. The timing of her nap really seems to matter and she just won't sleep to 7am if her nap is earlier than 1. So at the moment we have a longer A in the mornings and a slightly shorter A to bed.

I think the previous suggestion was good, if you can do a later bed as a once off to try and get a later morning and then move the nap later.

Hope this helps...

[huby]

I'm trying the above suggestion with some success, but cut to 1.5 from 2 hrs...seems to be helping her sttn.

[Grants]

Gosh Ruby, your lo is the same age as M and she is already refusing her nap!?! M still needs his nap though, mainly because he wakes up so blooming early!

I knew I had to post here   I have been avoiding posting as I’m tired of complaining about the same thing over and over again. It sounds like a plan ladies. So I will first try the ‘super late BT’ then if it doesn’t work I will start shifting his nap to 1pm. I have tried it twice( once before 1 hour nap and once when he was on 1 hour nap but it only lasted for 2 days both times and on the third day he crashed at 10:40/11am). I guarantee if/when I shift M’s day I will have to cut his nap again as he really needs his A time before BT otherwise he is so UT, jumping, playing in the cot etc….

Laura with the’ super late BT’ I don’t think M will sleep much later than 6am. Do you think this will be enough to shift his day?

[huby]

She didn't nap yday n slept from seven til 6.30am. No idea whats going on but ur little seems low sleep needs to me....like mine!

[koe2moe]

Grants, I'm also thinking about super late bt.  It might take a good few days to see the effects but the immediate effects might be perhaps more NWs.  Be sure to do it with some fun acitivities for you and your DH as well.  AND perhaps try to go to bed as soon as you put M down.  Hopefully after a week or so, he will be tired enough to at least sleep 9.5h from the late bt, say, at 9:30.  Write down a plan like so and discuss with DH about the plausibility and stick with it at least for a week (or specific time) before evaluating.  (If you keep tweaking everyday, you will 1- go insane and 2- NOT be able to see if it might help). 

Just make sure you and DH don't expect this late bt to magically shift it in a blink.  But if it can get M to fall back to sleep after waking up at 5, that alone will be worth it because you can then start at shifting bt earlier!  But the downside is that your evenings will be very short.   xx

[babybarr]

Grants I actually meant a one off super late bedtime like 10pm, if he wakes before 7am then you treat it as an EW and I'm sure he'll go back to sleep!