Nws + EWs + short nights are back.What do I do with this kid????

[Tweakster]

What happens on a no nap day?  Have you tried it ever?  Has the testing shown anything?  Sorry haven't read it all but I recall something about NAET.  What does his day look like now and how many times is he waking at night?  He has all his teeth now?

[babybarr]

((((((hugs))))) hun.  I get it

At around 18mths we completely cut O's nap as a trial and he slept better for about a week but would fall asleep in his dinner!!  We ended up doing about a 30min nap for a while and it actually made no difference in the end hence we stuck with the nap.  I hate to say but we are still not getting consistently STTN either   I would say we get it maybe 3 or 4 times a week which is an improvement.

What is your routine? 

[Grants]

Thank you for replying girls!  

quote author=*Wendy* link=topic=211545.msg2300132#msg2300132 date=1314067414]What happens on a no nap day?  Have you tried it ever?[/quote]

I haven’t tried no nap days yet. As you can see I have been a wimp regards no nap You know what I mean having a spirited yourself Wendy.  I’m always scared of cutting his sleep because of his personality. Plus in case the nights get any worse as well He still takes his nap when offered. He is not refusing it yet, which makes it harder. But I have always had to push him for sleep from day 1. He went through 2-1 at around 10.5 months. I had to push him then as he never transitions by himself he always need my help through it. 

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Has the testing shown anything?  Sorry haven't read it all but I recall something about NAET.

We have been doing a NAET treatment with him for his eczema end his sleep issues. He has been tested and treated for most of foods. We still need to test him for food phenomes, which I reckon we will do this Thursday. On the sleep front he tested weak/imbalance for Serotonin, Dopamine and Melatonin. He was treated for all of them and is testing strong on those now. Last Friday he needed a booster for Dopamine and Melatonin but now he should be fine for those.The only thing I can think of now is to ask my practitioner to test him for Cortisol and Cortisone. He can’t relax and he wiggles all night long so perhaps he has an imbalance on his cortisol and Cortisone production. But after this I’m at a loss.

I had amazing results with NAET myself and I know it works. I even have a thread about it on the great news board but it hasn’t helped M on the sleep front yet. His eczema is looking 85% better but the sleep is awful. As I’m writing this I realize  that he got a booster for Dopamine and Serotonin last Friday he body could be still working through that treatment.He also got treated for Histamine. For example. I got discharged from my treatment last Friday and had my last allergen treated (Dust) but since treating for dust I’m having hayfever symptoms every night as soon as I get in bed, which means my body is still working through the dust treatment. Perhaps that is what is happening with M after his Dopamine and Serotonin booster last Friday? This week his sleep is even worse. It doesn’t help the fact that he is in the middle of a growth spurt.

So main reasons  I’m not sure about cutting his nap 1) spirited personality, 2) Growth spurt, 3) still having the NAET treatment, 4) moving to the big boys room at nursery in 2 weeks(more structured activities, bigger playground etc.. so he will def be more tired there)

What does his day look like now and how many times is he waking at night?

What is your routine?

-Awake at 5:30am
-Nap at 12pm for 1.5 hour(have to wake him up and sometimes he wakes up by himself). Sometimes I let him sleep a bit earlier when he is with me at home in case he needs an extra 15 or 30 mins rest, in that case the extra rest doesn't interfere with BT.
-BT at 7:30pm

He has all his teeth now?

Only molars left now. He has just had his 4 canines (1 month ago). He is a *very* slow teether so that’s why I don’t think he is having his molar yet considering that he has just had all his canines.

[Grants]

Sorry Wendy, I forgot to answer about how many times he wakes during the night. It varies really. Like last night he had 2 NWs and on the second NW he was wide awake from around 2am to 3:30 am and of course he was still up at 5:30am as usual. Other days he wakes only once or twice but brief NWs. The main thing is that we hardly have full nights in our house and it is killing DH and I. DH is not being productive at work and I’m catching colds, having cold sores etc Plus I’m back to my studies in September and I really need to get this sleep sorted. I will have to write my thesis and I need sleep! Argh!!

[babybarr]

Does he fall straight asleep at bedtime?  I know at around 2yrs our nap was no longer than an hour.  I wonder about you trying the 1hr nap and crucially keep bedtime the same.

[Grants]

Yes he does fall asleep fairly quickly no longer than 15 mins most evenings, some evenings takes a bit longer (15 mins is not great as we have to stay in his room with him but I recall from Tracy's book that 15 or 20 mins is the average. Plus he does find it hard to switch off. So 15 mins is not too bad for him.

What about these reasons here? 

So main reasons  I’m not sure about cutting his nap 1) spirited personality, 2) Growth spurt, 3) still having the NAET treatment, 4) moving to the big boys room at nursery in 2 weeks(more structured activities, bigger playground etc.. so he will def be more tired there)

Do you think it is wise to cut it now because of the reasons above?

He used to have 1 hour naps. Remember? Nights got better for a while but then the total sleep in 24 hours wasn't great ??

[babybarr]

Perhaps give it a week for the naet and see what happens.  WRT nursery I think they'll *always* be something

Growth spurt never made any difference here

[Tweakster]

I'd ride out the NAET just now too.  If you can have those kind of reactions, who is to say that's not bothering him.  I also do think teeth are a factor, if they aren't all in yet then technically he's teething.  They are always teething as those teeth are shifting, moving, etc. long before they break through.  Slow or not.

15 or 20 mins seems to be a lot to me for falling asleep.  F falls asleep in under 5 mins these days.  But he's that tired.  You may find a difference when he's in nursery anyway.  His sleep may totally change up.

[koe2moe]

Growth spurt is always a big issue for us but we dont have a spirited.  Does he nap longer at nursery?  I do remember that when DS was having his transition to the big kids room, he was playing there whenever possible for the month before, he got more tired and slept got a bit better.  That's when we got out of the EW/NW hell.  He was suddenly doing 2h nap and then 12h night if I got his total A time right. 

[Grants]

WRT nursery I think they'll *always* be something

I couldn’t agree more! Plus the lack of sleep doesn’t seem to bother him at all!!! He is always in a good mood and full of energy ?? I wish I could be like this lol Instead I'm here struggling with normal daily tasks. It's a good thing that God make them so cute! lol I can't be cross with him when I see him in the morning in such a good mood

Growth spurt never made any difference here

The same here . Plus his behaviour seems to be better now that his 5 day course AB has finished. But the sleep is still rubbish though. He woke up 4 times last night and was moaning most of the night

After  he got treated for Dopamine and Serotonin( the week before last)  we had 2 AMAZING nights. He slept the whole night without a single noise and stayed in the same position I left him at  BT(he never stays in the same position. He moves around the cot all night, often ending up at the other end) but then he had 1 bad night after the 2 good ones. I knew he was having discomfort and took him to the GP the next day. The doc said that there was a very mild ear infection and it would be better to start with a short course of AB straight away. So we did it and we also gave him pain meds . He is done with the course but the sleep is still rubbish and I don’t know if it’s because of the AB or if it’s because of his last NAET treatment. Either way I will ask the practitioner to test him for his AB tomorrow just to make sure he is alright with it.

Does he nap longer at nursery?  I do remember that when DS was having his transition to the big kids room, he was playing there whenever possible for the month before, he got more tired and slept got a bit better.

He does not sleep longer at nursery. They know to wake him up after 1.5 hours otherwise I struggle to put him down at BT. I only allow him to sleep a bit longer sometimes at home(only an extra 15/ 30 mins) when he happens to go down for the nap a bit earlier then 12pm.

He is spending quite a lot of time in the new room for over a month now and he has been doing “stretch and grow classes” in there for about 4 months. They have a massive outside playground area in the new room with loads of more challenging/developmentally advanced outdoors equipment and this doesn’t seem to make a difference to him? He is not more tired because of the new activities ?
Wendy, do you think that this extra energy is due to his spiritedness?  I think I know that the answer is a Yes! 

I also do think teeth are a factor, if they aren't all in yet then technically he's teething.  They are always teething as those teeth are shifting, moving, etc. long before they break through.  Slow or not.

Agree Wendy!! M is a very 'slow teether' but the teeth seem to bother him way before they come through.

15 or 20 mins seems to be a lot to me for falling asleep.  F falls asleep in under 5 mins these days.  But he's that tired.

Hummmm he never really fall asleep that quick and on nursery days he seems to take longer as he is so wound up! 

You may find a difference when he's in nursery anyway.  His sleep may totally change up.

What do you mean by that? You mean when he moves to the new room?

[Grants]

Where are you girls ? Lol it took him 30 mins to fall asleep this evening. A nap cut it's looking like the answer here. Especially after Wendy tells me that F only take 5 mins to fall asleep. What do you think ladies?

[koe2moe]

Hugs!  Wanna try  cutting 15 mins and the same bt?

[Tweakster]

If it was taking F 30 mins, I'd be crapping myself.  I would know something is up.  But that's F.  He's always gone to bed without issue, he's always had an early sleep phase too.  When we get bedtime 'just right' it's a walk in the park on a beautiful sunny day.  When we miss that window or muck it up, it's like a walk in the park on a -30 degree day trudging through snow in a swimsuit...well you get the idea.

Sorry I meant yes when he changes rooms.  The shift in rooms had a huge impact on F because he's Spirited and likes things 'just so' and when his world changes up he gets upset.

[Grants]

M always takes long to fall asleep. I think he finds it hard to switch off, but I also think that he might be too rested to fall asleep straight away ??

So did Finn sleep better after the room change? I must admit that I'm a bit nervous about the change. He is very attached to his carer. Plus I wonder if the nights are going to get worsr

Koe, I think I'm leaning more towards the 30 mins cut. 1 hour nap instead of 1.5.

[babybarr]

If it was taking F 30 mins, I'd be crapping myself.  I would know something is up.

Same here.  O now falls asleep within minutes.  When he was smaller it would be 10mins tops and anything over that I knew it'd take *ages* I'd definitely be cutting that nap.