Nws + EWs + short nights are back.What do I do with this kid????

[sianie]

Yes, she moved up from the baby room where she had been in a cot & went straight to the toddler room & sleeping on mats. I did find she used to settle pretty easily at nursery as there was so much going on that by nap time she was really tired.

[Tweakster]

Same as Finn.  He was in infant room in cots in a dark quiet room and then he moved to sleeping on a mat with 20 other kids in the bright room he played in.  The only time he struggled to sleep is because the other kids woke him up.  Otherwise he followed routine and went straight to sleep.  He might surprise you Grants.

[Grants]

In the infant room DS  slept in vintage silver cross prams, then at the toddler's room was in cots , now this new room it is in mats.

He might surprise you Grants.

I'm hoping this transition will sort his sleep out! Wishful thinking LOL

[Grants]

DS napped for 1 hour and 20 mins today. I wanted to try something different tonight, so I played loads of wrestling in the afternoon and evening (needless to say I'm his favourite person ATM lol), DS helped DH with a bit of DIY and we had a very quick quiet time (3 mins) sang 3 songs and time to go to bed. DH entered his room at 7:30pm let's see if burning loads of energy just before BT plus a bit later BT can make a difference ?

BTW I have been thinking if the NWs don't get any better after his GS I will def go to the GP. This is not normal. I'm struggling to survive. Perhaps he does have a kind of sleep Apnea. Who knows ?
 

[Grants]

DS STTN! and……slept through the Groclock!  It was only 15 mins past the light but still.... What a nice feeling  I just left DS in there as he was happy and chatting to himself. After 10 mins he started to moan, then I went in .

To those of you who have the Groclock what do you normally do when your LO’s sleep past the light? 

[Tweakster]

Celebrate . It's only happened a handful here.  If it became habitual you might think about adjusting the sunshine time.

Way to go Miguel!

[Grants]

Thanks Wendy
 I'm not sure about habitual though. I will only believe it if he does it for at least 7 days. He is so blooming irregular for everything ( sleep, food, bowel moviments ) so its hard to believe until it happens a few times in a row. Do you think it's OK to leave him in the room for a while if he is happy and chatty even though he woke up after the time set?

[EloysH]

Yay!  So glad to hear about sttn  

I admire your persistence with this and trying everything to help your little one, and not giving up     and I know how this can bring you to your knees, my DH and I were at eachothers throats not long ago due to Kais sleep as we were just so darn tired and cuold not function in any normal way. We were in pure survival mode.  


I just read back about 7 pages. What I hear is this.  He is consistently NW'ing - not every night, but enough times a week and for a few weeks to be able to rule out sickness, NAET reaction, teeth.    Is that right? That's what I think.  I think that he has a food sensitivity, I really do.     Now feel absolutely free to discount things I have said and also correct me, as I am basing this on what little I know if him just from what I have read, and I know words can distort things a bit  

It just seems so similar to Kai's story. Kai had 6 weeks of Nw'ing every 2nd or 3rd night coupled with EW/s of 5am or so at about the age of 12-14 months. Because it went on for so long it was kind of a blessing in disguise because we were able to say that no, we have ruled out any prop issues, no, you can't be teething for that long. No, sicknesses are finished.   We finally cracked it when we eliminated troublesome foods.  He was always a bad sleeper, but we got to place where he was sleep trained so many times that we knew he could do it if he wanted but he continued to wake at night and EW.

This is based on the assumption that you can rule out 2 year molars, the reason I am ruling out the molars is that he seems rather happy during the day?

These are my other reasons that  think he has a food sensivity. He has eczema. We know skin is an indication of the gut health. This is the first major indicator to me.  I know eczema can be related to environmental factors,  but we are building a case here. I heard the other day eczema is linked to egg intolerances - this was from a paeds personal experience just heard this a few weeks ago.

Anyway, these are my other reasons: - You said he has always been alert  as a baby and finds it hard to get to  sleep  taking a long time, this is a food intolerance symptopm. I know he is not ADHD, but you have said he can be quite restless and spirited, this  links to   the hyperactivity and irritability trait which can be a food intolerance symptom.  Bascially the foods upset their nervous ssytem and they are a frayed, alert, more highly strung version of their true selves. When you take out the foods they come down a notch and calm down a bit and sleep gets alot better.  

 You said he finds it hard to wind down (I am asssuming that is a norm as opposed to OT?). Babies and children don't have to have ADHD or completely hyper for a food sensitivity symptom.  Kai isn't hyper as such but if he is having troubles with food he is certainly restless in the day a little wired and distractable and grouchy.  I can see the difference. He is also more demanding, and cranky as if he is OT, but it goes on and on for weeks.. and is linked to the NWing.  You could say of course he would be like that - he NW's. Well that could be true too.    But we have evidence because by taking the foods out, the NW's disappeared.

  And lastly your little one has the regular Nw'ings. Big clue there.  Again, if the NW's are food intolerance related, the nervous system is set off, wired, frayed. The detoxifcation chains involved in digesting food don't work properly, the hormonal chain reactions that need to take place dont operate as well so you get broken low quality sleep.    If hormones and detoxifcation are off, normal food chemicals build up to toxic levels thus irritating and causing food intolerance reactions.
  
Anyway, this is my rant, and you know I really into this stuff at the moment and coming from a very different angle, but some food for thought!  

I can provide links to websites discussing food intolerances, food sensitivities, symptoms and diagnosis for further info.....

take care and hope the sttn's continue so you can all get some rest xxxxx

[Grants]

Thank you for posting Eloise! I really appreciate all your thoughts 

It just seems so similar to Kai's story. Kai had 6 weeks of Nw'ing every 2nd or 3rd night coupled with EW/s of 5am or so at about the age of 12-14 months. Because it went on for so long it was kind of a blessing in disguise because we were able to say that no, we have ruled out any prop issues, no, you can't be teething for that long. No, sicknesses are finished.   We finally cracked it when we eliminated troublesome foods.  He was always a bad sleeper, but we got to place where he was sleep trained so many times that we knew he could do it if he wanted but he continued to wake at night and EW.

Did Kai have a good stretch of sleeping through the night consistently like M? DS slept through the night from around 5.5 months to around 9 months. Almost 4 months of good STTN every single night but still EWs. But I’m not too concerned with his EWs. DH and I are early risers and this is very much DH and mine body clock. I’m more concerned with the NWs. Can he have food intolerance even though he managed to STTN for all those months in the past? Did Kai sleep through the night consistently for a few months before his NWs started?

This is based on the assumption that you can rule out 2 year molars, the reason I am ruling out the molars is that he seems rather happy during the day?

M has never been affected by teething during the day. He is always happy during the days. He was like this for all 16 teeth. Teething only seems to bother him during the night. I never gave him meds during the day for teething.

You said he finds it hard to wind down (I am asssuming that is a norm as opposed to OT?).

Yes. It’s more like a norm, even when I’m 100% certain he is not OT due to good naps and good nights he still takes a while to switch off at BT. I think this is more a trait thing. I used to be like this myself. Not as a baby/toddler but when I was a teenager and young adult. I have learned how to relax now, so I don’t have that problem very often anymore.

Kai isn't hyper as such but if he is having troubles with food he is certainly restless in the day a little wired and distractable and grouchy.  I can see the difference. He is also more demanding, and cranky as if he is OT, but it goes on and on for weeks.. and is linked to the NWing.  You could say of course he would be like that - he NW's. Well that could be true too.    But we have evidence because by taking the foods out, the NW's disappeared.

This is a difficult one to put my finger on as he is very, very happy even though he has NWs. Some days, not always, when he has bad nights he will be a bit grumpy in the mornings. But still energetic and happy, if this makes any sense?!  And his mood will get better after he has his nap. I think this would happen even to us, adults, if/when we had a bad night, iykwim?! Plus this in only on rare occasions he is not grouchy every day after bad nights.  He is very energetic but he is spirited so it’s hard to draw the line between temperament and food intolerances. Like for example, distractibility or perceptiveness, a more positive way of calling it. It’s very much a spirited trait. So he will stop at every corner to watch a flower, a stone, a cat, a bicycle, a truck…etc… but this is part of his spiritedness, yk?!  But he can concentrate very well. He can sit for at least 30 mins to work on puzzles if he feels like it, so although he is very energetic he has no problem concentrating.

Phew! There was a lot of food for thought on your post.  I think I have managed to ask you all the questions I wanted. I hope I’m not missing anything

[koe2moe]

Interesting analysis, Eloise. 

Grants, did M get re tested on things that he was strong on at the start?  Remember I keep getting new allergies that were ok before.  Worth considering.

[Mom to M&M]

Was away for a few days and only catching up now... HUGS Grants. As Eloise has said too, as you know I've always strongly suspected food intolerance(s) with M.... Have you tried eliminating anything for at least two weeks?

[Grants]

Thanks for that Koe. I think I will contact my practitioner about this. If it needs be she can get prepared with all the vials before we arrive on Friday. The only thing is that it might be charged as a first consultation as we will be re-testing him on loads of things. I don’t care about the price if it solves the problem.  

We are going to end up  bankrupt just now

[Tweakster]

We have just started leaving F when the sun turns on, we have told him that he can call us when it turns on.  So he has that option.  He likes his private time in the morning so we never rush in (unless he's overslept for some rare occasion and we have to wake him).  He now immediately yells when the sun is on BUT that's because he's EW again and he's already been in there an hour or more on his own.  

So what happens when you leave Miguel if he wakes BEFORE the sunshine?  You mentioned he's good for 30 mins, what do you do for the rest of the time?  Do you call through his door to remind him?  Or just ignore it? Also, what does he do when the sun comes on - does he call for you?

I'm more a believer these days of food having adverse effects.  I don't think a trial or ED can hurt anything at this point.  It's not like you would be depriving him of anything, he can still eat well and healthily while doing a food trial.

(((hugs))). Hope things continue on the upward trend of STTN!

[Grants]

I have just seen your post Karen. Thank you for posting again No I haven't . I have only eliminated dairy for a month or so. I have read that you need to eliminate for 4 to 6 weeks to be sure Do you think if M had food intolerances would he be able to have 4 months of STTN every night from 5.5 to 9 months of age?

Either way I'm secretly hoping it is not food intolerances as I don't even know where to start plus I won't have time and energy to do an elimination diet with him. I'm back on my studies in a week and I will be super busy  and stressed working on my thesis

[Mom to M&M]

Very possible with the STTN/food. Did he start new solids around 9 months? Possibly wheat or the like? Or it could have built up more in his system?