Anyone doing short am/long pm? LO c.9mths?

[AliG]

Hi there,
Would be interested to see anyone's EASY who is currently doing short am/long pm, with LOs around the 9mth mark...

Thanks!

[clairebear79]

Hiya

We are doing short am/long pm atm though we are STILL plagued by EW's so ours may not be the best EASY to look at but this is roughly what we are doing:

Wake: 6am
Nap:   8.30/9 - 9.30/10 (I wake him up here)
Nap:   12.30/1 - 2.30/3 (hopefully!!! - I let him sleep as long as he wants here)
BT:     6.30/7 (depending on how long he slept at pm nap)

I'm keeping 1st A time very short as DS is very sensitive to OT (touchy) & this seems to work best for him so that he can make it to his pm nap without getting OT. I'm letting him sleep as long as he wants for his pm nap.  Some days I get 2hrs & then others I get 1hr 15 & I think he may be in a bit of an UT/OT loop.  I'm actually thinking of cutting the am nap to 45minutes so we can try & get the 2hr pm nap consistently, but to do this he will need to do at least 3hrs 1st A time & get that AM nap nearer to 9am.  If I cap the am nap further then I will also shorten the 2nd A time to around 2h 45-3h max to avoid him becoming OT.

Am I right in thinking your LO likes a full 1st A time?  As you might be able to do that, cap the am nap & then do a shorter 2nd A time to make sure he doesn't go down for his pm nap OT.  Another point worth mentioning is that with short am/long pm, they say that naps between 9-10 and 12-2.30 fall when babies experience a natural dip in alertness - i.e. its their biological sleepy time.  If you can get your naps at those times of day your baby is likely to sleep better.  I'm certainly finding that to be the case with DS's afternoon nap.

HTH.xx

[AliG]

Hiya,
Do youi mean going down for a nap anywhere between 9-10 and 12-2.30 (when you talk about the sleepy time)? Or naps in those exact time slots?

So you're doing 2hrs 45 day sleep at the moment right? I'm currently capping at 2.5hrs. Though we keep getting 10 or 10.25 or 10.5hr nights, so maybe I should increase to 2.75 again. Hmm.

Thanks for posting the EASY. I reckon you should stretch to 3hrs first A. That's what I did today. It was first day trying, but I woke him after 1hr. Though actually I think he was about to wake. Then I've just npw put him down at about 3hrs 10.

[clairebear79]

Do youi mean going down for a nap anywhere between 9-10 and 12-2.30 (when you talk about the sleepy time)? Or naps in those exact time slots?

I believe its if they go down anywhere between those times.  I guess if the nap is entirely between those times that will be the best option, but its not always going to work for everyone.

He actually did 3hrs 1st A time today - I do suspect this is around what he likes/needs to do, its just up to now I've been keeping it shorter in order to make sure he doesn't start the day OT.  We recently tried set naps with a 3.5hr 1st A time & it totally sent him over the edge.  He can handle much longer A times in the afternoon than in the morning.

Our easy today went like this:

Wake: 5.20
Nap: 8.15 - 9.15 A = 2h 55 (I woke him)
Nap: 12.30 - 2.40 A = 3h 15 (he woke briefly at 45mins & resettled)
BT: 6.30, asleep 6.40   A = 4hrs

He's still very, very tired atm so we've not set a limit on total day sleep as such.  He's doing a 1hr am nap & hopefully a 2hr pm nap.  If he wants to sleep longer than 2hrs atm I am letting him (up to 2.5hrs max) as he has been OT for so, so long.  I think if we get another EW tomorrow then I will cap the am nap at 45mins & see where that gets us.  If he continues to EW then I guess I will have to cap the pm nap at 2hrs max.

Did your LO go down easily at 3hrs this morning?  I know you have said before he usually likes longer?  How did your pm nap go?

[AliG]

That is so weird, we've had exactly the same day as you in terms of A times, just with a 1.5hr pm nap not 2hr (I woke him). AND, I even had to re-settle at 30mins. Weird.

Your plan sounds like a good idea. I think you have to have a starting point don't you and then can tweak from there. At least that way you start knowing what's going on and can identify where the tweak are needed, if you see what I mean.

He actually went down v easy. But that was after a 10.5hr night, with a 1.5hr NW in the middle. So he must have been exhausted. I think before I was assuming he wanted full A time. But he has always yawned, rubbed eyes, looked tired way before full age appropriate A time.

Let's now see how tonight goes. Even if it's bad, I'm going to repeat same day tomorrow, as you have to give it a chance to work I guess...

[clairebear79]

How did your night go?    It sounds like your LO was a little OT yesterday if he woke 30mins into his nap & that will most likely be due to his short night.

DS woke briefly at 4am but went back to sleep until 5am (at least I did so I assume he did too!   That was 10hrs 20mins sleep.  He can & does often do 11hr nights so I'm actually thinking 3hrs 10mins day sleep may have been a tad too much.  I have actually been suspecting this for a while but have left things as they are so I can be sure that its nothing else causing the EW before I start nap capping.  I've allowed 1hr am nap today due to the EW but will be waking him from his pm nap at 2hrs for sure.

[AliG]

Sounds like you're getting somewhere, which is great.
I think one of the hardest things, as you mention, is that there are so many variables that could cause NWs or EWs. And it's pretty impossible to try and eliminate them all. You know what I mean?

Yes, I think maybe OT too, so rather than 3.25 A for second one, I've done 3 again. Dreading him doing an UT nap though. Just put him down, so we'll see.

Last night was shocking, again.
We had a 1.5hr NW. 3.30 woke up and for 30mins cried out intermittently, and then tried to put himself back to sleep. At 4am I decided to see if he needed my help (he wasn't crying, more crying out). I could tell he wanted to go to sleep, he wasn't sitting up etc. but his nose sounded a bit blocked, so I'm not sure if that was what was bothering him.
By 4.30 and him still not asleep, I gave him a small feed. Had to read a couple of stories etc. And then he fell asleep again around 5.10am. WOke briefly at 6.50 chatting, but fell asleep again and I then had to wake him at 7.30. I know I shouldn't have lety him sleep so long, but when I heard him at 6.50, I was so tired I could barely open my eyes (have been up for min 2hrs every night for the past three nights). Doesn't seem like an OT wake though does it? OT usually causes a few random ones and usually easy to settle. You also might expect an EW like 4.30 or 5 with OT, but this seemed a bit weird for OT. Then again, I know he can do 11hrs/11.5hr nights, as he was previously, so something is going on.
SO I don't want to have a knee jerk reaction, but I'm wondering if he needs a cut in day sleep again (we were getting long NWs a few weeks back and cut sleep from 2.75 to 2.5 and it helped. for a while that is). Put him down this morn 3hrs after wake up and woke him after 45 mins. Just now put him down after 3hrs A and hope for 1.5hrs straight with no re-settles. And then BT 4hrs after waking from that nap again. Well, that's the aim of today. What will happen, who knows.

What advice have you been given previously about OT?

[~Emma~]

 We are jut over 8 months and give or take our day looks a bit like this

Awake - 6
Nap 1 - 9/9.15-10/10.15 (woken)
Nap 2 - 1 - 3
Bedtime - 6.30

 Sometimes we get EW, sometimes we get a shorter PM nap (1h20). Lots of OT/UT loop malarkey going on and something needs cutting/tweaking somewhere. Jusr cant figure where...

 When its good its good though! 

 

[*Amy*]

I too do the short am long pm!
Wake anywhere from 4.15am to 5.15am
Sleep 9
Wake 9.45 I always wake her
Sleep 12.30
Wake normally about 2.30 but today she fought the nap and woke after only an hour!
Bedtime 6.30
I also have ut/OT stuff going on! She woke at 4.20 am after a feed went back asleep until 6.40am and then fought the pm nap?? Why oh why oh why!

[clairebear79]

Oh it does sound like you had a rough night Ali.

Do you think he has a cold?  Or is he teething at the moment?  DS had 6 teeth come through in the space of a week & he had a LOT of 3.30am ish wakings with lots of crying/screaming - he seemed like he wanted to go back to sleep but couldn't.  He was in a lot of pain I think.

Our OT wakings have always been stirrings in the early part of the night or EW's.  Sometimes at the EW he will try hard to go back to sleep & cry - other times he is wide awake & I think he's just so wired he can't put himself back to sleep.  

Your plan for the day looks ok, it sounds like you are thinking he may be UT is that right?  I guess you can only try it & if he starts to have more OT wakings then you would need to add some more day sleep back in.  The only advice I've had re: OT in the past is to let them sleep as much as they need whenever they need it, to help them get over it.  The only tricky bit is spotting once they are caught up - as if you don't spot it you can end up getting caught in an Ut/OT loop.  I think this is where we are atm!!!

Our day went like this:

Wake: 5.00am
Nap:   7.50 - 8.50  A = 2h 50  S = 1hr (I woke him)
Nap:  12.10 - 2.00 A = 3h 20  S = 1hr 50 (he woke at 1hr & 1hr 15 but went back to sleep - not sure if OT or due to poo)
BTPD: 6.20, asleep 6.40

After yesterday, I decided to see if a longer A time after a 2hr pm nap might help the EW situation so we stuck with a 6.30 BT.  I hope that wasn't a bad idea!!!

Emma - looks like our routines are pretty similar except we are doing a longer final A time.

Amy - nice to see you on board!!  Do you think she is getting OT with this pm nap fighting?  Could it be the long 1st A time?  I know people say to get the 1st nap at 9am so that's great - but a long 1st A time totally sends DS into a huge OT spiral.  We've cu it right back atm & this seems to be giving us better results.  Keeping the nap short still so he doesn't use it as an extension of his night sleep.

[AliG]

So he had 2hr 50 of DT sleep yesterday - and? how was your night after that?

Yes, our gut feeling was that he's UT and that's why the NWs. So, I cut DT sleep by 15mins (to 2.25hrs) and yesterday worked AMAZINGLY.

Wake 7.30
Sleep 10.30-11.15
Sleep 2.15-3.45
Asleep at 7.50 pm
Slept through to 7.25am!

So his day was also cut down to 12.25 hours, which is the shortest day he has had for weeks.

Now, I have no idea if this was pure exhaustion due to a few nights of 10hrs ish, but think we will try and replicate it for a few days and see what happens. Trouble is, no can do today, as hub is taking him to his parents for the weekend this afternoon. So, that involves a 2hr car journey (and I think his days of sleeping longer than 45mins in the car are over). So today I'm having to do long am, short pm. But we'll keep his total day sleep the same if possible (well, at least not more, but might end up less).

[clairebear79]

wow Ali thats great news!!  I think sometimes its just a case of finding the right combination of day sleep & day length in order to guarantee a decent night.  If only I could be so lucky as to work it out too!  we have tried a shorter day of 12.5hrs but he still only slept 11hrs at night so he woke 30mins earlier the next day.  But maybe if he had a little less day sleep he'd do the longer night. 

DS woke at 5.15 today so did 10h 35 night sleep.  OK but I am used to him doing 11hrs (when he's not super Ot anyhow).  I don't like this 10.5hrs or less malarkey!!!  So today my plan was much like your day yesterday with 3hr 1st A time, 45min nap, 3hr 2nd A time, 2hr nap, 4.5hrs A time to BT to make a 13hr day.  Except he was already showing tired signs after being up just 1.5hrs this morning.  Took him ages to settle for nap so 1st A time was 3hrs 10.  Got an OT nap - woke at 30mins (luckily self settled) & then he's been utterly shattered since.  PD for PM nap so he'd be asleep at 2hrs 45 A time & he didn't settle for ages.  I'm expecting another OT nap - I just hope upon hope he resettles & has the 2hrs he needs.  Then I will see how that affects tomorrow.

Keep us posted on how you are getting on!.xx