Author Topic: 9 months NW  (Read 1998 times)

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Offline busybee1980

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9 months NW
« on: June 08, 2011, 09:46:55 am »
I have never posted before but we are having loads of problems with night wakings. DD slept through from about 15 weeks but suddenly started waking again at our bedtime at 7.5 months. She used to have a dreamfeed but we dropped it at 6.5 months because she didn't want it anymore. Initially we thought the wakings might be due to wind (she has 3 solid meals a day) but she wouldn't be comforted in her cot and wanted to be picked up. Then of course we couldn't get her down again. Eventually we realised that picking her up wasn't helping, so I stayed with her one night and held her in the cot and patted and sshed her but refused to pick her up. She cried for 1.5 hrs but the next two nights were better. Then it got worse again. Some nights she waks all through the night, virtually every sleep cycle, others she wakes every 2-3 hours. However it often takes up to an hr to get her back to sleep. Because every night is different and nothing seems to stay the same we don't know what the problem is. For a while it might have been separation anxiety, so I tried sleeping on a mattress next to the cot but that didn't really change anything. However she still won't settle well for my DH. We have tried pain meds but that doesn't seem to help, she wakes up when being given the calpol and thinks it's a game. She has had lots of colds, which give her a cough which contributes to the NW but during the day she's fine. We have raised the head end of the cot and the mattress under her head, used a vapor light and a vapour rub. I don't think she's hungry, she eats very well during the day and has a BF first thing and last thing, although this started when she still had 4 BF a day. She used to fall asleep well on her own, doing a sort of peaceful noise, maybe a bit like a mantra cry but she really wasn't distressed. She has stopped making that noise to fall asleep since this started and needs me to ssh / pat, calm with words or hold her in the cot to fall asleep, every night can be different, e.g one night she's happy for me to stay by the cot but not touch her and say "time to go to sleep" and she does but the next night she cries and wants to be held in the cot until asleep. We have on occasion tried pu/pd but she gets hysterical. Her daytime naps are CNs and always have been, even when she slept through the night, although in a bid to fix this I have been working on napping and trying to improve this, with some success. Our EASY before it all went wrong was:
 6.00 - 6.30 WU
 6.30 - 7.00 BF
 7.30 - 8.00 breakfast
 8.00 - 9.00 A (and getting dressed etc)
 9.15 - 9.45 / 10.00 nap (trying to extend this, some days it's an hour)
 10.00 - 12.00 A
 12.00 - 13.00 lunch
 13.00 - 13.30 / 13.45 A
 13.45 - 14.30 ish nap (we usually go out for this one as she fights it)
 14.30 - 17.00 A
 17.00 - 17.40 supper
 17.40 - 18.10 bathtime
 18.10 BF
 18.30 - bedtime routine, lullabyes, book, cuddle

She's now over 9 months, I'm going back to work next month and we're getting desperate. Does anyone have any idea why she's waking and what we can do to help improve things given the variable nature of the NW? I have been trying gradual withdrawal (v slow) with success at naptime and BT but for the NW is doesn't always work and they are still happening. I don't want to just leave her to CIO / CC but equally I know she used to be able to self settle and now frequently doesn't. Help!

Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 18:15:33 pm »
bumping up the list
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline Mama_Mia

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 02:41:13 am »
Hi busybee1980,

From looking at your EASY I can only think of 1 possibility. It looks like she may be UT for her first nap, since she is only having a 3.15 awake time. Then because she is UT she takes a short nap but has a long awake till the next nap, which could be causing OT. Which is why she fights it. Then here she has a short nap and an even longer awake till bed. SO my suggestion would be to try and increase her first A time so that she is sleeping for an 1.5hr her first nap. Then it would be much easier for her to make it to her pm nap without getting OT.

HTH.. Let us know what you think/how it goes.. Hugs hun, I know its difficult dealing with all the NW's

Offline *Kara*

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 04:01:27 am »
I completely agree with NanaC.  I would push her to 3 hr 30 or 3 hr 45 before the first nap :)



Offline busybee1980

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 08:54:28 am »
Thanks for your ideas. The naps are getting much better, particularly as I've taken to putting her down on her front, she nearly always sleeps for longer on her front as she's more comfortable. I have a Dr app for her next week to discuss possible silent reflux and tried infant gaviscon last night, seemed to help a bit but she woke at 22.40 screaming in pain with wind, which is how this all started really. We brought her in with us as she was very very distressed and in pain, I tried to massage her tummy and bicycle her legs but that brought on the reflux and everything pooled in her mouth before she swallowed it again:( Am beginning to think that I don't have a sleep problem after all but a digestive problem, however after a bit of internet research I'm not sure that anyone's got a remedy for trapped wind....

Offline *Kara*

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 20:49:00 pm »
Tummy sleeping can actually aggravate reflux... Where do you live??  In Canada, we have Ovol drops for toots that are stuck!



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 21:12:41 pm »
Agree with NanaC that the A time between AM & PM nap is probably too long so she is getting OT & therefore fighting the PM nap. 
The problem you have ATM is that with 2 short naps & a long A time to BT she will be OT at BT & this will increase the NW's.  Over time, the result will be that she will be tired in the morning from all the NW's & may want to take her AM nap earlier.  Try not to let her do this if at all possible!
 
So another option would be to keep the am nap short at 45mins but to bring the pm nap slightly earlier, say around 2.75-3hrs from WU from her AM nap.  Follow her cues as to when to put her down.  You might find she goes down more easily & gives you a better nap & would then be able to handle the longer A time to BT.

Also if you think there are pain issues, maybe speak to her GP?

HTH.xx

Offline busybee1980

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 13:08:28 pm »
Kara, I'm in the UK. Have a GP app next week to discuss the pain issues, it just seems to be one thing after another. First what appears to be reflux (am giving infant gaviscon), then painful trapped wind, then yet another cold.

I have looked at what you said about nap times and A times and am trying to keep her up for 3.5 - 4 hours after she wakes in the morning (currently 5.30 ish) and then she naps for about an hour (although needs help as the cough wakes her up) and then put her down when she's tired in the afternoon (today that was 3.5 hours after am nap) and she's going down much more easily for all sleeps. Will probably have to help her to extend the pm nap though, how long should I have as A time before BT then? She starts her supper at 5pm, then it's bath, BF (during which she's very nearly asleep, it takes around 30-40 mins), book and bed. Presumably she should nap from say 13.30 - 15.00 and then go through to BT? and then have a shorter am nap (although 45 mins is a long nap for her, she always used to do 30 mins and slept through without a problem...) Thanks in advance for the ideas.

Offline Mama_Mia

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 16:02:49 pm »
So glad sleeps are getting easier for you.

If she does a full 1.5hr nap then she should be able to handle a full awake time of 3.5hrs so if she wakes at 15:00. BT should be around 18:30. But keep in mind that some LO's dont like to have a full awake before bed. So I would watch for her cues to see if she likes a shorter awake before bed.

Offline *Kara*

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 21:59:10 pm »
Or you could have a weird LO like me who has a monster 4 hr A time before bed... anything less and we get a huge hour long battle!



Offline busybee1980

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2011, 13:06:34 pm »
Thanks again for all your ideas. We have restructured the day so that we have a shorter am nap and a longer pm nap, for which she's going down much more easily, once I can persuade her to stop crawling around. Nights have got better, although still not perfect. the biggest factor here has been a humidifier, it stopped the cough and she has had 3 nights of sleeping through out of 7 since we bought it. However wind and snuffles still an issue, don't know if it's colds, teeth or hayfever. GP was not very helpful.... What do others do when child wakes in discomfort and calpol etc doesn't work? We've been bringing her in with us but even then she writhes around when she's not comfortable and then wakes at 5amish and thinks it's time to play. This morning she work before 5 and we battled for over an hour to try to get her to go back to sleep but we gave up at 6 - she was then up 'til 9.30 - nearly 5 hours, I didn't want to put her down earlier as I don't want to encourage the early starts...
 

Offline *Kara*

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 22:32:18 pm »
I can tell you from my experience with 3 months of 5am starts that keeping baby up until a set nap time does nothing to change the EW. 

Calphol is acetaminophen, right?  If you suspect teething, I would actually use ibuprofen.  Acetaminophen takes almost an hour to take effect and is less effective with teething pain as it doesn't contain an anti-inflammatory.  Ibuprofen takes less than 20 minutes to work and does have anti-inflammatory properties as well.  MUCH BETTER :)

I think you need to get her on a good routine, regardless of the clock, and then work on shifting the entire day.  So, if she wakes at 5am, get her up and let her have that first nap around 830/9am.  Go from there with usual A times... if she has a nap less than 90 minutes, she will need a shorter than normal A time.  I would also suggest an early bedtime to get rid of OT buildup that she very likely has (responsible for the NW).

Good luck and let us know what happens!



Offline Smurfette

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Re: 9 months NW
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2011, 22:00:47 pm »
Hi there

Just popping on to say that if this new plan doesn't work, you might want to try shortening the A times. I've been having early NWs and late NWs and EWs for several months (see my thread on the EASY board-9 month old and mommy need help) and it has only just improved b/c instead of increasing A times, I finally went the other direction on someone's advice and it's worked! I kept following the typical A times listed on here but I guess they just weren't for my DD! Its still a work in progess as I'm not really sure what her A times are, but the NWs and EWs have improved in just a few days!

Also, just as a FYI- I was getting 1.5 hr naps too in the am and now I'm not, but I now suspect it was only b/c DD was catching up from her bad nights. I'm not saying that's what's happening for you, but rather just as a heads up to keep that in mind IF what you're trying now doesn't help. :)
Good luck!