9 months old, NWs and hard to resettle

[nadja]

Hi,
I was posting quite a bit on the EASY forum while we were moving from 3 naps to 2 about a month ago as DS was waking so early in the morning and it seemed his CN was the problem. So we went through transition hell and thought we'd come back out the other side... not happening tough!
He is now on only 2 naps, and longer A times. He sleeps well through all his naps and I have to wake him up nearly every time as otherwise the days get too long - the days are long enough as it is! He settles to sleep well on his own too, so we really have no issues there. He has a paci but never wakes for it, neither during naps nor at night.
The issue we do have is that anywhere between 3am and 5am he will wake up, start crying and be awake for around 1 hour, no matter what we do. Then he generally only will fall asleep in our bed, as even if we resettle him in his cot he will eventually wake up again. Once he is in with us he then falls asleep (still takes at least 1 hour, usually we try everything else first - patting, PU/PD etc. but nothing works). Weird thing is that I don't think he wakes to be in our bed, I just think he really isn't feeling 'right' and needs comfort...but why is he waking? We do have the occasional night where he nearly manages till 5.30am so I know if he could he would sleep through.

His EASY yesterday was:

w-up at 6.35am
A 6.35-9.47 (3h12m)
S 9.47-11.05 (1h15m)
A 11.05-2.35 (3h30m)
S 2.35-3.55 (1.20m) - had to wake him
A 3.55-7.30 (3.35m)

So bedtime was 7.30, which we never used to have but as his A times are now so long I'm not sure what to do. Last night he was awake for over an hour and was so exhausted he slept till 7.30am (still less than 11h with the awake time). I've tried putting him to bed in the evening after 3h A time or 3h15 A time, makes no difference, he still wakes up crying. He now has usually around 2h40m S time during the day and really long days as we pushed his A times as we thought he might not be tired enough to get through the night. But it's not helping. Nothing is helping!! No technique helps him resettle, and he sobs and sobs, I can't bear it!!
Any tips? I've heard 8/9 months is a difficult time for sleeping so is this maybe just a phase?

Thanks already for your ideas! 

[katyusha]

 Nadja, my boy does the same. Mine is constantly snotty though and is teething. So I blame that. Has yours ever slept through?   
Also do you dream feed? ( I don't as makes no difference to mine)
The reason I think the 8-9 months is difficult is because they try to sit/crawl or pull themselves up to stand at this point making them maybe more tired, plus there maybe a growth spurt. Mine is going through a growth spurt now eating more solids and asking for more breast milk. SO I hope it is a phase. Still many hugs as I know it is hard to stay up like that at night. The other night I totally lost it at my boy who did not want to sleep in his cot and cried 3.30-5.30 am. I felt awful afterwards as not his fault.
I would not swap re-settling techniques not to confuse him. I'd ask for help if possible and I'd try to decide what it is that's bothering him. Teeth? - (Calpol?) Tummy (gripe water?) Hungry - (feed more at day time?). At the moment mine is responding to feeding more solids at daytime and calpol+teeth gels so we at least get to 5 am.
Best of luck!

[nadja]

Yes, my boy has slept through, not loads but he has done it. and he never used to wake for 'no' reason - i.e. only when he was hungry really, and then he'd resettle quickly. But this has now been going on for about 3 weeks, and the 3 weeks before that he would actually wake at around 4am for the day, but that was when we were moving from 3-2 naps, so everything was all over the place.
We've never really had to resettle much before this so not sure what to do, but none of the known techniques work. The more I pick him up the more he cries if I put him down. If I pat him he cries, he just wants up and to be held, whereas usually he's not that kind of a baby. It's as if he really actually needs comfort, and once he is comforted (which takes at least an hour) he then falls back asleep. I don't think it's teeth (although I'm sure he is teething all the time!) because he truly is v happy all day and only cries for that one hour at night. He isn't ill or hungry as he eats loads (yes he has picked up w food in the last week or so but I just feed him until he doesn't want anymore!) and on occasion I have bfed him and it made no difference (although it calmed him down a bit). I also dream feed him at 9.30pm but I don't think he needs it anymore, we just don't want to make another change before we have sorted the waking.
I really have no idea what is going on, for a while I was worried he was UT but pretty sure this isn't the case at this point!! Arghh!
I nearly lose it as well when he wakes, I totally understand, I'm so tired and if at least I knew what it was but am clueless!!!

[*Kara*]

I would try cutting his morning nap to 1 hour and then let him sleep until he wakes for his pm nap   That could help with the EW and the getting him caught up before BT with the PM nap will ensure that he isn't waking from being OT from the continuous nap disruptions.  Honestly, I don't think it's a good idea to wake from both naps at his age

[nadja]

Thanks, I will try that tomorrow as today was a bit of a random day. I let him sleep in the morning and he slept for nearly 2 hours after only 2h50m A time, his second nap was only 45mins (he woke by himself) but we anyway needed to go to swimming lesson. At least now his bedtime will be at a reasonable hour again so unless this turns into an even worse night than usual we might have a decent wake-up tomorrow (today it was 7.30am but he was exhausted from his shenanigans at night!). I just worry that cutting his morning nap to only 1h might be too much as he has such awful nights... but maybe I'll keep his morning A time short as he really seems exhausted after way less than 3 hours at the moment...

[*Kara*]

It's worth a try!

[nadja]

Good morning everyone. He slept from 7pm - 5am, and we really tried to get him back to sleep but he sobbed and sobbed for so long (and he was in my husband's arms!) that we gave up. Well at least he'll have an early bedtime tonight!
I did notice that I think he wants to be fed (but didn't give in and will stick to regular 6.30am bf, although could he legitimately be hungry?)
Weirdly yesterday we didn't fully stick to his regular EASY and he had A times of 3h and slightly under but slept better than the night before. Not saying that it's a good idea to revert back to shorter A times but just that my theory that he might be waking because he is UT is probably wrong!!
It's 6.04am, he's up and he is still sobbing on and off, shouldn't I at least have figured out why?!!!

[katyusha]

This maybe silly idea as my own baby goes to bed late thanks to his bigger sister's routine. However mine can never really last 3.5h of A time unless I overstimulate him, like today I took him to a baby group. So I think keeping him up till 6.30 b-feed was probably a good idea but I'd settle him for naps earlier, just like you are planning too. Tracy did say that they sleep less from overstimulation and the naps are meant to be about 1.5-2 h on 4 hour EASY, or am i behind schedule? My poor boy goes to bed late at 9-9.30 as my DD keeps waking us all up. I am working at addressing that at the mo. So I reckon if you stick to what you are doing and give it at least a week it will work.

[clairebear79]

Hi Nadja

We are in a similar position to you & my DS is having pretty short A times atm, especially in the mornings.  I too feel like we have taken a step backwards, but he has been so OT & this is the only thing that is helping him catch up.  

Maybe give him a few days just following his tired cues rather than pushing his A times too much & allow him to catch up a bit.  It may be that he is handling the A times ok, but the long days are just making him a tad OT.

HTH.xx  

[nadja]

Hi Claire,
Thanks for your thoughts, perhaps he is a bit OT... he does quite long A times and he would just nap forever if we'd let him! Maybe if I cut them down a bit he might not be so knackered... and it would also help shorten his day as with 3h20m - 3h40m A times and 2 1h30m naps his day ends up being 13h and yet I think he wouldn't mind doing 12h at night (especially with the wake-up in between). Which would mean he really needs 25h in a day!!

Last night we decided to just take him into bed with us when he woke at 4am and he fell straight back asleep for the first time in weeks. Ended up sleeping from 6pm-6am, apart from that stupid 4am wake-up he would be the perfect child!!! It's just so knackering as I can never fall asleep again and the days are so long... but maybe it's also because he just learnt to crawl and is standing up and really discovering the world, life might just be too interesting to stay asleep!!

What do you do when your LO wakes up at night? Theo doesn't resettle no matter what we do, he just cries and cries even if we rock him, cradle him, sing to him, cuddle him, nothing helps!! And yet for the rest of the day he doesn't cry at all, is always happy... very strange!!!

[clairebear79]

Oh bless, it does sound like you are having a hard time.  TBH our son doesn't often have NW's but we are having a similar EW plight (its been almost 5 months now) & we can do NOTHING to get him to go back to sleep.  If we feed him he stays awake afterwards, if we take him in our bed he thinks its time to play - he just doesn't go back down.  So we just leave him to it in his cot.  Obviously if he was 'I need you' crying we'd go to him, but usually he is quite happy to lay in his cot & babble to himself for quite a while.

Initially we thought he was UT, so worked on pushing his A times but then he got OT & so we've had to pull them all back again.  And so it goes on.  My DS also does a 13hr day & we've never succeeded in shortening it (even though I suspect that's exactly what he needs) because he rarely adds the extra sleep onto his night.  So he just wakes earlier the next day.  I think the trouble is when they need the longer A times to get the longer naps the day just gets too long.  So the only option is to shorten the A times or start capping naps.  Have you looked at the 2-1 transition info?  I'm not saying your LO is ready for that yet, but he is getting to an age now where it might be a consideration.  We've actually tried capping DS's am nap at 1hr & this has been giving us a 2hr pm nap, but I suspect he might need his nap capping further as we are still caught up in an EW, EBT cycle & his am nap is around 8.15-8.30am which is too early to ever get through to a decent BT.

I hope you get a better night's sleep tonight.xx

[katyusha]

Guys, sorry, to ask but at 8.5 months are the babies meant to be on a 4 hour EASY or does it get to be more activity and less sleep? Mine is still on 2-3 naps and our activities are about 2 hours long not more. Are we meant to switch to less naps?

[Smurfette]

@ Kabanova-check out this link-http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

Hi Nadja-are things any better?

[katyusha]

Thank you, Smurfette. Nadja, how are things with your LO?

[nadja]

Hi you two! Things are a bit better with us, today he woke at 5.50am!
And for the last week or so we just gave in and started taking him into bed with us instead of trying to resettle him (as that would take over an hour and we were knackered), and that way he just falls straight back asleep. At least it gave us some more sleep and now hopefully things are improving. It's not ideal but actually quite nice to have him all cuddled up to us!! And for the last two days he woke up late enough that there was no need for him to go back asleep. His naps are great too, 1 hour in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon. Lets enjoy it while it lasts (and it won't, I'm sure!).
How are things with you Smurfette? Still NWs/EWs?
Kabanova, yes I think your LO should manage longer A times, but would suggest you increase them slowly so that your LO can adjust - with us this helps prevent major problems with NW's - a new routine usually leads to Theo waking up lots, then once he is on the new routine his night sleep improves dramatically. Good luck!