Please help me figure out the reasons for the NWs

[lesliemarie]

Well for the second nap she had an A time of 3 hours and was harder to get to sleep but still it took less than 10 minutes.  She then only slept for an hour, well probably more like an hour and 10 minutes.  She had 3 hours before bed but I took her up to bed at the 3 hour mark and it took 20 minutes for her to get to sleep.  She was eating her last bottle though because we couldn't fit it in before.  She was almost asleep after that but just kind of played with her blanket for about 10 minutes.  I tried to put her down but she wouldn't settle so had to hold her until good and asleep.  It's now been 20 minutes since bed so fingers crossed.  

I'm having a hard time getting her to drink all her milk during the day so sometimes have to feed just before bed in her room.  Although I did that last night and she was up a ton so maybe that is part of the early evening wakings.  Who knows    I guess I'll find out.  Does anyone know or remember how much their LO was drinking a day at 8 months?  And if there were any night feeds?  I really don't think she needs them but the past few days I'm finding that a bottle does seem to help her settle and sleep longer sometimes but it isn't consistent.

[Bex09]

So yesterday went well hun, hope your night was as good? I think C was still on 4 7oz bottles a day at 9 months but pretty soon after she dropped to 3. She was doing 7am, 11am, 4pm and 7pm (or whatever time BT was) then she dropped the 11am one first. So then we moved to 7am, 2.30pm and 7pm, she is about to drop the 2.30 bottle now though as shows little interest in it anymore. Are you bottle or breast feeding? I know that we were warned about feeding a bottle right before BT by our reflux pediatrician as it can cause reflux probs lying straight down after the bottle, but TBH it made no difference to us and it was a really nice and important part of our BT wind down so we still do this. But you could be right, it could be causing your NW just after BT.

Do you think your DD increases her A time as the day goes on? C always did, I used to have to increase the A times after each nap and her shortest A time was always the morning one. When C's first A time was 2.5h her next A time would be 3h. So if your DD's first A is 2h 45 and she has a good nap have you tried 3h 15 A time before the next nap? Just a thought. Also I have learnt that the time it takes C to go to sleep is a huge clue about how tired she was, if I have got her window right she falls asleep instantly. If she is UT it takes much longer for her to fall asleep. What do you think?

[lesliemarie]

Well she went to bed at 6:30 and slept for almost an hour before waking up.  Usually its only 30 minutes if OT.  She then woke up a bunch of times between 7:30 and probably 9:30.  So when she woke at 7:30 I just had to give her the soother.  Then she woke again really quickly but more of a whimpery kind of waking.  She really didn't want to be awake.  So I gave her some tylenol but she woke again a couple more times and would suck on the soother and then cry then suck and then cry so I tried the numbing gel.  The poor thing was just whimpering and still mostly asleep.  Then she still woke another couple of times so I tried Advil.  I really hate to do that.  I know that you can alternate between the two pain killers to provide relief if necessary but it is a lot of meds for a little baby but after that she slept right through until 1am.  Then I fed her and she slept till 3:30.  I have a feeling that the pain meds had worn off by then so I just tried some of the numbing gel and she slept until 5:40.  She seemed to want to get up then so I APed with a bottle and she slept until 6:45.

So I know that the teeth are really messing everything up and I really wish I could do something more for the poor thing.  She is just rubbing her mouth constantly but only seems upset by it when sleeping.  Still no teeth though.

So for today I'm going to try to put her down at the 2:45 minute mark for the first nap and see how it goes.  Then maybe I'll try 3:05 or 3:10 for the next nap as long as the first is good.  It's funny DD1 was the same with needing a much shorter A time before the first nap.  That carried on until she dropped it completely.  I think she was 2.5 hours from the time she was about 6 months until she dropped it at just about a year.

She is bottle fed.  She is on Neocate and a thickener.  Her milk has a gel like consistency but it seems to help with the reflux   Whenever it flares I thicken it even more and it seems to help. 

She used to drink 7oz at a time but now i'm lucky to get 5 in.  4 is more likely.  So what I've been doing is offering 5oz at approx 7-7:30 unless she has had a 5 or 6am bottle, then 11am, this is where it gets tricky.  If I offer another bottle at about 3 or 3:30 then she will take less and then she has dinner at 4 and then I'm trying for another bedtime bottle and she just plain isn't hungry for it.  That means that if I'm lucky her daytime milk intake is 17-18oz.  This is from the girl who used to drink 45oz a day    Oh well, just not that hungry for milk anymore.

[Bex09]

Well less interest in milk is a sign to drop a bottle isn't it? Does she do well on solids and eat a lot? Did you say you were feeding in the night? If so that is probably why she isn't as interested during the day. I would say by 8 months she really doesn't 'need' the NF. But I know we all do whatever we can to get some sleep.

[lesliemarie]

I thought so as well.  I don't think she needs any at night but at the moment while I'm trying to get rid of the CN I am feeding at 5 or so if I can't get her back to sleep.  I also try to just get her back to sleep at night without a bottle but if she keeps waking every 30 minutes then I feed assuming she is hungry.  I really wish she could tell me what she wants

As for the naps today I went with 3 hours for this afternoon's nap and again got an hour.  The difference this time is I went up at 2 hours and 50 minutes so that she could be asleep by 3 hours and she was just over.  3 hours and 5 minutes but still the 1 hour.  It doesn't seem to matter what A time I do I still get an hour in the afternoon.  So she was up by 3:05 so I guess that means a 6pm bedtime and likely another 5am wakeup    This morning's nap was 1.40 and I had to wake her for the school run again.  I think she would do 2 hours in the morning and an hour in the afternoon easily if I could just stop it with the stupid school run.  grrrrrrr

[lesliemarie]

OK.  So the last few days haven't really been any better.  She doesn't seem to be teething as badly though.  Friday night was horrible.  She was just so unsettled she was up almost hourly.  She was up early on Saturday and only slept for just probably only 45 minutes but I kept her in her room for another 15 trying to get her back to sleep.  Then was so tired and miserable that I put her down again after only an hour and a half and she slept for nearly two hours.  Go figure.  Anyway I don't remember the exactly times but I was working on her tired cues and she had a lot of NWs in the early evening but once I medicated her with teething gel she slept from 11 to 1am then I fed and gave her reflux meds, antibiotics (for a minor infection of a bug bite) and more advil.  Then she slept until 6:15 when the power surged and her white noise turned off and her music came on  

Then yesterday we had just about an hour for the first nap and I APd like crazy for the second nap and managed to get her 2.5 hours (I was sure she needed it).  She went to bed well and woke much less during the first few hours of the night and then it all turned and she started waking more often.  She was whimpering in her sleep and so I gave advil again at 12:45 with a bottle and she was up at 2:30 for a cuddle and then at 5:45 where I fed her and she went off to sleep until 7:15.

So I've got a couple of questions.

1. Since she is having her antibiotics for the next 3 days and needs a dose at about midnight I was thinking I would continue the bottle because I can put it in the bottle along with her reflux meds and advil if needed.  Then I was thinking of cutting it out and seeing if just reflux meds and advil will keep her asleep.  What do you think?

2. If she continues to wake early am I right in thinking that she is waking from hunger because she will go back to sleep for at least an hour afterwards?  Although, the other day I managed to get her back to sleep by bouncing her on the yoga ball and she slept for another hour.

I'm going to try extending her A times again today to see what I get.  Last night she was about 3 hours and 15 minutes before getting into her room for her wind down and she was crying and being miserable.  I'm thinking that I have to start at 3 hours and go from there.  It is so frustrating though because every day is different and I'm not sure what to do.  She used to be so predictable with the amount of time she was able to stay up.  This school run really has messed everything up.  When she was only doing 2 hours of A time it was no problem.  Even 2.5 hours of A time would work but now that she should be able to stay up more she can't or else she won't be able to nap.  At least it is only another two weeks but then we have a ton going on.  We are going on vacation on July 16th (just DH and I) for a week and the girls will be with Grandma who seems incapable of keeping track of time (ex. when she got up so she has no idea when she should be ready to go down, etc).  Then a week after that we move to our new house.  Then I go back to work on September 8th and DD1 goes to full day school (yay!!!) and DD2 will be in case with a daycare provider and her little girl who is just a week younger than DD2.  That should start a whole new problem with naps.  grrrrrr

[Bex09]

Hi hun sorry I haven't been around the past couple of days. Not sure I can be of any help but will try! How are the NWs going now? Any changes since you increased your DD's A times?

I would def try to drop that bottle once she has finished her antibiotics hun yes. Think we said before she really doesn't 'need' it does she? But if she is used to having it now I am sure she will kick up a fuss to get fed, so be ready for that one!

As for her EW being out of hunger it could be if she goes straight back down after a feed. How much does she take? This is usually a good indicator. If she has a full feed and then sleeps it was probably hunger but if she only takes a few oz it is probably not.

[lesliemarie]

I think a lot is habit.  I know now that when she is waking hourly it is pain from something.  But over the past few days I've realized that when she wakes frequently in the early evening it is probably just habit.  Then she consistently wakes at 1 and between 5 and 6.  So at 1 (the other night it was actually 2:30) she will drain a 4, 5, or 6oz bottle (I put more or less in depending on how much she has had in the day) and then right back to sleep.  Sometimes will sleep straight to 5 and other times will be up in an hour or so.  So I'm thinking that sometimes it is hunger and other times it isn't.  Not that that really helps    I would say it would be time to drop a bottle but one day I tried only giving her three bottles during the day to see if she would drink more than 4 or 5oz but she still wouldn't.  I think it just made her more hungry at night.  She just doesn't seem that interested in the bottle during the day or it could be that more than that will cause her to reflux more so she just won't take it.  Who knows.  At this point I'm OK with one feed at night.  I'm pretty sure she doesn't need it so if I can get her sleeping independently and she stops waking then I'll know for sure.  I've now got a thread going about the next steps for gradual withdrawal on the props board so if you would like to follow along there that might help.  I really don't think its related to her EASY now.  It is just so hard to know for sure.

Tonight I actually climbed into the crib with her and just lied there to get her to fall asleep without me holding her.  It worked but only after an hour and 15 minutes.  Today was really messed up sleep wise though so she may not have been tired enough to go to sleep.  It probably only took 10 minutes for her to fall asleep once I climbed in though.  Who knows if it will ever work again.