Short Naps, Pacifiers and Shsh/Pat

[ccynderella]

Help!  I'm going crazy with my 8 week old.
My 22 month old always slept great and i can't remember having any of these issues with her.  My son is a different story.
We've been swaddling him and he's been sleeping in his crib from day 1.  Early on, we introduced a pacifier and he likes it a lot but now we've come to the following routine and it's driving me crazy. 

7am - wake up, feed (breastfed)
8 ish - he cries, or starts to close his eyes with the pacifier inserted.  put him in his crib - he cries - we use shsh pat to get him to sleep. We try to remove the pacifier once he is in a deep sleep.  He will wake up 5 minutes later and we'll have to do the routine over.  This can happen 3 or 4 times before he actually stays asleep and when he does he only sleeps for 30 or 40 minutes.  When he wakes up, shsh/pat makes him HYSTERICAL so I try for as long as I can but given that we're at the 9:30 mark I feed him.
9:30/10 - feed
10:30/11 - I usually pick this time of day to go out and so he's in his carseat and falls asleep instantly - he will sleep for as long as he is moving otherwise I have to put him in my wrap to complete his nap and so that I can prepare lunch for my toddler
12:30/1 - feed
2pm - same ritual as the morning nap
3:30/4 - feed
4:30/5 - he sleeps in the swing or my wrap while I prepare dinner
6 - feed
6:30 - sometimes falls asleep if i put him in my wrap or hold him but otherwise he doesn't go down until his bedtime
7:15 - bath
7:30 - feed, swaddle, top up with bottle in bed, insert paci - by 8:30 he is completely asleep and we go in to remove the pacifier
2:30/3:30 - wakes and feeds
6am - stirs and i bring him into bed to try to hold him off till 7 and i am almost always successfull ( I know, accidental parenting)

So aside from the obvious accidental parenting that I am doing - swings, wraps, pacis and my bed - what else am i doing wrong??? I'm trying to be as consistent as I can but i still have a toddler to tend to and i cannot spend entire days shsh/patting him in his crib!!

I put my toddler on EASY when she was 2 months old and she adjusted so well - now EASY seems hard and Im at my wits end.  I'm trying to stick to it cuz I know it pays off in the end but am I expecting too much too soon given my situation???

[Tweakster]

Hi there hon, (((hugs))) you've got a lot going on.

I'm no whiz about pacis as my kid wouldn't take one...but I'm not sure I'd call it a prop as he's only 2 mths.  They really need all the help they can get to self-soothe at this age.

It's hard to sleep train with 2 so I'm just bumping this up for you to get some eyes of moms who have BTDT.

I don't think it's wrong to get him to sleep any way you can at this very young age :-)  There is plenty of time for sleep training.  If you can't spend the time shush/pat then you should probably wait until you can because it needs consistency to work well.

[~Sara~]

I don't think it's wrong to get him to sleep any way you can at this very young age :-)  There is plenty of time for sleep training.  If you can't spend the time shush/pat then you should probably wait until you can because it needs consistency to work well.

I agree with what Wendy said.

While I don't have any experience trying to do all of this with 2 youngsters, we actually got rid of the pacifier at 2 months because DS just seemed to settle into sleep better without it (bc it would fall out, etc. and wake him up).  He never took the pacifier after that.  It could be what's happening for your DS.

How long is he actually sleeping for his naps?  I couldn't tell apart from the first nap, for which he slept from 8-8:30am right?  If you could put his day in the EAS format (when, how much/how long), that would really help

[ccynderella]

Ok, so here is the schedule in the format you requested.

E - 7am - breast feed
A - 7:45 (watch me pump - lol, or sister jump around)
S - 8:00 (starts to fuss or fall asleep in bouncer or swing, so I move him to crib) Today he broke out of his swaddle and chewed on his fingers for awhile.  I only went in when he cried to reswaddle and reinsert paci.  He fell asleep on his own (yay) by 8:30 but woke up 45 minutes later (9:15)  He broke out of swaddle and chewed on hands till he cried and I went in to do shsh/pat.  He would start to drift off but eyes would pop open and this repeated till 9:50.
Y - 8:30  I was able to take a shower in between all of this
E - 10am
A - 10:45 There is about 5 minutes of this before he drifts off in his carseat
S - 11am - The length of this nap depends on how long he is moving in the carseat.  Once back at home, I will move him to swing (only if he wakes) and put him in my wrap only if he's really fussy.  This is so that I can prepare lunch for toddler.
E - 1pm
A - 1:45pm
S - 2:00 - This is the point at which I put him in his crib but it takes 30 minutes to get him to fall asleep.  He will wake every 30 minutes and I use shsh/pat to get him back to sleep.  This routine repeats till the next feed.  I should note that if I were to put him in his swing at this point, he would sleep the full 2 hours.
Y - none
E - 4pm
A - 4:30 - watching sister, playmat or outside time.
S - 5pm - either in his swing, bouncer or my wrap while I prepare dinner
Y - none
E - 6pm
A - 6:30 - playmat,
S-  this time is inconsistent, sometimes he sleeps a bit otherwise he stays away until bath and bed
A - 7:15 bath
E - 7:30 - BF followed by bottle top up in the crib
S - 8:30 this is the time he is completely asleep with paci removed
E - 11:00pm DF
E - 2:30/3:30 any time in there wakes and is BF with bottle top up in crib

That is the current routine...at least nights are fairly consistent...it's just the napping in the crib now.  I should also mention that I've recently noticed BF'ing issues.  He cries at the breast after only feeding for 5 minutes.  Obviously some discomfort with my letdown (which is really bad) or gas but readily takes a bottle.  I've tried feeding while lying on my back which helps a bit and then trying to burp him frequently throughout the feed. But sometimes, the only thing that stops the crying is giving him the paci.  It's hard for me to believe that he's that efficient of an eater at this point, however he is easily able to go 3 hours between feeds and is relatively content during that time. 
Sometimes i wonder if he should be going longer between feeds but I'd rather see him go through the night before i start extending the daytime feeds - is this correct to think this way?

[~Sara~]

Hmm...okay...

Some ideas I had:
1) I think him getting out of the swaddle is affecting his sleep.  Maybe not 100% the reason he's short napping, but I think contributing to it.  What kind of swaddle do you use?

2) I think the bfing issue could be causing some discomfort in his tummy.  I can get some bfing eyes over here if you'd like   The fact that he lasts 3h in between feeds is good, though!  Related to eating, I don't think you need to worry about his number of night feeds.  It's very common for LO to have a couple of them at this age.  And daytime feeds should be about every 3h at this point.  As he gets closer to 4mo, he'll probably start going to about 4h in between feeds, so plenty of time for that.  But stay at 3h for now

3) What if you just tried the no paci at nap approach for a couple of days?  Just to see if he would settle better without it?

4) I'm wondering if he might need some more A time...how long has he been doing 1h A times?

[ccynderella]

Thanks for your reply!
So my responses:
1.  I use a muslin blanket for naps and a halo swaddle me for the nights.  He is getting stronger and stronger, so he is able to get out of the swaddle me now.  The muslin blanket, he gets out of very easily but at the same time, when he wakes up from a nap and is chewing on his fingers and not crying - I don't mind because I want him to find his fingers and stop using the paci.  Anyway, short of using duct tape, I'm not sure how much tighter I can pull those swaddles.

2.  I watched him nap today for afternoon nap and he kept waking cuz of gas.  So I know he's a bit gassy and this is something I may just have to ride out.  When he has severe gas, he kicks up his feet, which loosens the swaddle and he breaks out of it and wakes - hence the cycle.  I called a lactation consultant and she seemed to think that my letdown was contributing so I've starting feeding him in an upright position and leaning back and although he refused the breast this morning, he did feed very well at each feeding after that.  So small progress.  Any other comments or ideas on this issue are welcome, however.

3. I've tried waiting for him to be in a deep sleep, then remove the paci (like we do at bedtime) - but he never seems to get there (basically he is dreaming for the entire 45 minutes - a light sleep that is easily disrupted).  I will try putting him to bed without it and see what happens.

4.  He's been doing the 1 hr A time since 6 weeks, roughly.  Before that, I couldn't keep him awake during the day, if my life depended on it.  He had his days and nights mixed up at first so i had to work on that.  Now we're in a pattern that he's actually awake for 1 1/2 hours to 2 by the time he actually falls asleep.  I'll admit that I'm still not sure on his sleep cues.  I usually just watch the clock for when we're coming up on the hour and if he shows signs of fussiness, I'll pick him up, hold him, put the paci in and watch for droopy eyes....then it's off to the crib.

[ccynderella]

Ok, so we're making small progress.....yesterday he actually slept for an hour and a half during his afternoon nap! yay

HOWEVER......

Bedtime and night time have begun to be a problem.  The last two nights, I've put him down as usual at 7:30 but he didn't actually fall asleep until 9.  This is because he fought his way out of the swaddle 4 or 5 times.  In the end, he was crying and slightly hysterical.  I used to believe that the only reason he cried or fought the swaddle was because of OT but I am actually beginning to think that he does not want to be swaddled.  As i said before, I'm using the halo swaddle me and if I pull that thing any tighter I'm going to crack one of his ribs!  After that I was up 3 or 4 times throughout the night to reswaddle!!!  At 5 am he cried so hard I unswaddled him and took him into bed with me and he fell asleep, unswaddled, no paci.  uuughhh!

I need a plan and I need to know if I should just abandon the swaddle since he obviously hates it.

[~Sara~]

Ok, so we're making small progress.....yesterday he actually slept for an hour and a half during his afternoon nap! yay

Wow!  That's fantastic!   Did you change anything up to get that?

I used that same swaddle with DS, and he got out of it very, very often.  We stuck with it until about 5.5 months because he slept worse without it, and it got us through his short napping phase.  Then we weaned that silly thing cold turkey.  Every LO is different...you could try no swaddle if you'd like.  It might mean a couple days of wonky sleep as he gets used to the sensation of having his arms out, but it's up to you.  Or get a different swaddle, lol (which I am contemplating this time around!!).  Have you tried the Aussie swaddle technique?  He's a snug as a bug in a rug, but his hands are by his face, so he could suck on them instead of the paci...
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=1439.0

The reason I asked about the A times is I'm wondering if he could handle a teensy bit more, like only 5-10 minutes more.

How's the new bfing position going?  Have you noticed any changes?

[ccynderella]

As far as the long nap...didn't change anything....maybe he's just finally getting it...lol

I'm gonna give the aussie swaddle a try and see what happens.  I guess I'm just wondering if this is something I'll have to ride out until he gains more control of his hands.  I suppose he's not going to be 15 and needing a pacifier or startling himself in his sleep...

I've also started extending the A time, although this morning, he went down at 8:30 and fought it, so I think he was a bit overtired.  We were back to the 45 minutes too and I used shsh pat for 20 minutes while he drifted (angrily) in and out of sleep.

After reading others' posts tho, I realize he's a bit of an EASASY baby.  Even now, after sleeping 45 minutes, he's up and happily cooing.  He'll need another catnap before feeding time since that's over an hour away.

The BF'ing has been fixed for now.  I make sure he's upright and I'm leaning back for the initial few minutes (where letdown is strong) and then he settles into a nice 20 minute feed...Could be that he's getting the hang of it too, or not as gassy lately....sigh...you never do know.  I keep telling myself to be  patient and give him a chance, knowing that the first 3 months are a learning & developmental curve for us.
I find myself constantly comparing to my daughter, tho, because she was such a great sleeper, adaptable...I have to stop doing that and remember all babies are different.

[~Sara~]

I've also started extending the A time, although this morning, he went down at 8:30 and fought it, so I think he was a bit overtired.  We were back to the 45 minutes too and I used shsh pat for 20 minutes while he drifted (angrily) in and out of sleep.

It could be that he was a bit OT with the longer A time...I'd give it a shot for another couple of days to give his body time to adjust and to really see if that's what he needs.

It could also be that he's a short napper...if he's still eating well, is happy, and sleeps well at night, I think it's okay.  It's not easy, but it does happen.

I'm glad the new bfing position is working so well!!  What a relief, I'm sure!

I'm actually going to be moving this weekend and won't have internet for an uncertain amount of time.  Feel free to keep posting here as I've asked for additional eyes while I'm away.

[sjh0908]

I am new to this forum but your situation is EXACTLY what I am going through right now (down to the older toddler who was an easier baby and having fast letdown). Since it has been a year since your post, how did you get everything resolved? Any tips, help, recommendations are welcome.