Going Crazy....

[DSAN]

SO the past few nights have been horrible.... lots of NW in the first part of the night and a fight to go to bed... connection?

Looks like I'm going back to extending naps?

[bongabees]

Hi I have just read through these posts and have a few questions as I can resonate with some of this...

My LO also will only go to sleep with p/sh with a hand on his chest - I have to stay like this til he is in a deep sleep. Didn't think this was a prop - but reading your posts do you think it is and how do I wean him off it?

Also, how do you get more naps in the day? Do you get the LO up after waking, then have A time, then try putting them down again, before E time?

Thanks.

[DSAN]

Hey Bongabees!

How old is your LO? And from what I understand shh/pat isn't a prop (but you could ask at the props board), what my LO does is he has to be holding my hand or my face. BUT this morning he went down without it! Yay! I just lay on my bed (next to his bed) and did abdominal exercises till he fell asleep (multitasking!). Eventually I hope to move out of the room.... one step at a time!

Obviously, I'm the one with the questions too not the answers but I thought I'd tell you what we do for E time. I don't make him wait till after his next S (not that he'd let me! he's a big boob fan), I just feed him towards the end of A time, whenever he gives me hungry cues, but make sure I at least separate it from sleep with a diaper change or some quiet activity. He doesn't usually fall asleep eating now though any way. So thats what we do Hope it helps!

[bongabees]

OK thanks, that's what we had been doing with the A time before eating, but I am still unclear how that gets you more naps? Do you feed more often than 3 hour routine? My LO is 11 weeks.

[Ima shel Alon]

DSAN - I am sorry to hear about NW, they totally suck!
There might be a connection, as LO is OT. Have you tried solids yet?
As you said, our LO are same age and our night also started to be hell like, with a lot of NW, and I am thinking solids! I also read today in BWSAYP that it might be the case. What do you think? Does he look ready?

bongabees - you feed, then have A time, then S and if the nap is short you have some more A time, low key, and then S again. That might not work for everybody, but is worth a try. As DSAN said, you also have the option to make a shorter cycle each time.
I would suggest though that you start your own thread, so you can get enough attention and sufficient help for your specific problem.

[ZacsMumme]

DSAN - mmm are the evening NW long or just for a quick resettle? Is your LO still using the dummy? Around this age their sleep cycles change and they wake more at night (or 1/2 wake) if your LO needs your hand or a dummy to get back to sleep and he cant settle without it or replug on his own this may be the reason for the NW. Can you post what times your NW are? If in the first 2 hours it often means OT, but it could just be your LO needs a slightly longer a after those short naps (if 4 or 5) till BT.

[DSAN]

No we haven't started solids but that might be something to think about! He's almost sitting on his own and is very interested in foods. I plan to start in a few weeks when his dad gets back from his work trip, but maybe I'll start cereal. Although I've heard that it can sometimes cause NW if they aren't ready for it?

The NW's are in the first few hours of sleep, maybe 2 hours after he goes down or so, and the past few nights he's been up for a good 45 mins fussing, and I finally fed him both times and he went down for the night. I know, AP, but he wouldn't settle any other way! I just fed him and then didn't do a dream feed.

The later part of his night has been OK, he's been sleeping till 7 or past. Well, he still has one NW to eat but thats nothing new... it's usually anywhere from 3am to 5am, he takes a full feed, and then sleeps the next few hours fine.

He's down for a nap now and I'm going to try and resettle. We were out to lunch with a good friend who's here visiting from Australia so he was up a bit long.... maybe a 'good' nap will help with the NW tonight (even if I resettle they never end up being more than 1hr 15 or so).

[ZacsMumme]

If your LO gets constipation, gassy tum or reflux maybe try something other than cereal as it can cause flare ups, gas and constipation. I found pumpkin or pear were both very gentle on the gut.

DO you think the NW could be teeth related? We get them when the teeth are moving down and gums white and swollen.
I do agree that when Zac had longer naps (with me helping him) he was happier and slept better at night. At teh same time though, if you feel it is stressing yourself out, just have a day or two off xx

[DSAN]

I was wondering about skipping cereals all together! It seems a bit unnecessary and honestly a bit unnatural... and hearing that it can cause such issues kind of hits that home. Pumpkin and pear sound good! Maybe I'll start there when we are ready.

I keep wondering about his teeth... but there are no signs of a tooth coming any time soon. But maybe I just haven't been able to get a good look! It is about time for teeth. That would be lovely, for him to start teething just as his dad leaves for a 3 week trip.

In other news, I was talking to a friend today who's little guy is a year... she said he did the short naps too, but that she just let him cry and he eventually went back to sleep Made me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I don't think I could ever let DS just CIO!!

[ZacsMumme]

she just let him cry and he eventually went back to sleep

The problem wit hCIO isn't that it doesn't work (for some bubs) but that it breaks the bond of trust between baby and mum/dad. Imagine being totally dependent on someone else for all your needs and suddenly they don't come when you need them Babies don't know consequence so they can't 'play us.' as some people say they can. They stop crying and go to sleep with CIO because they feel abandoned and stop because they are exhausted and/or they need to save their energy (survival instinct.)

You are not doing anything wrong love...so many babies go through the short naps...a lot of it is developmental.

If the gums are white, or swollen, or you can see white dots chances are those teeth are moving

Yeah, cereals aren't the best... though DS loves it now mixed with fruit (berries or apple/pear) and baby yogurt

[Mama_Mia]

Hi DSAN, I am sorry your having short nap issues. BTDT. At about 5 months my LO would stay awake for 2hrs then sleep for 30 minutes. And he did that all day long. I was happy and he was happy. Then I started trying to extend his naps because "all the babies were sleeping longer" It made my baby miserable and it made me miserable. I hated making him cry because I wanted him to stay in bed and sleep and he didnt want to. I never did CIO, just the thought of that brings tears to my eyes now. But with pu/pd or sh/pat it always made him scream more and more so I gave up and kept my happy baby. He eventually started sleeping longer on his own as I gradually increased his awake times. I love what you said in your earlier post...

After all, he'll only be this little once....

That is so VERY true and I sometimes feel like I missed too much of that stage because I spent too much time worrying about his sleep instead of just enjoying him. Now I have a LO that crawls and climbs on everything and I wonder where my tiny little baby went. So my point is, if your baby is happy with 4 short naps a day, go with it and enjoy him. He will outgrow everything. Everytime a new challenge comes up, remember he will outgrow it

[ZacsMumme]

That is so VERY true and I sometimes feel like I missed too much of that stage because I spent too much time worrying about his sleep instead of just enjoying him.

Aww I totally agree Mama_C

[DSAN]

Thank you Mama_C! Its easy to forget the big picture when you're caught in the middle of something difficult. But it is so comforting to know that babes who go through the short napping phase start sleeping more eventually. It's hard for me to let go sometimes but I think this is a situation I need to do just that...

Babies don't know consequence so they can't 'play us.' as some people say they can. They stop crying and go to sleep with CIO because they feel abandoned and stop because they are exhausted and/or they need to save their energy (survival instinct.)

Thank you for the reminder ZacsMumme! I know, I absolutely don't agree with CIO... I have found though that the supporters of it are so many, and those that don't do it are almost shy about it, and don't stand their ground. I even find myself making excuses like 'oh I can't do that because he has reflux, and crying makes it worse,' when really I won't do it because I think its cruel! I guess I don't want to offend. But really, what are we doing to this generation of kids? If the majority of them were left to CIO will they be lacking empathy? Trust? What will that do to our world?! Maybe I'm reading to much into it. I'm glad that all the baby whisperer moms here are against it. There is a lot of pressure to do it... maybe cuz in some ways it's easier...

[ZacsMumme]

Yup, I know what you mean, people are quick to endorse CIO...and I have heard many times 'crying doesn't hurt them' maybe not physically, though in our cases it actually can hurt their throats with reflux. But it does hurt them in other ways. My DH told me about his workmate who did CIO with an 8 week old so it would STTN...8 weeks!  I felt sick, esp because it was probably hungry and scared!:(

[brenda2]

But really, what are we doing to this generation of kids? If the majority of them were left to CIO will they be lacking empathy? Trust? What will that do to our world?!

actually this is exactly what CIO has been shown to cause in some people.  there was a video up on this website somewhere, i will take a look for it - it was a researcher talking about his findings on this.

you are doing right by your lo to stay with them and offer comfort and your presence through the sleep training stage.  you are not doing anything wrong and your lo will learn to sleep just as well with these techniques and will not have the bonds of trust broken as your friend's lo.  he will always know that you will come when he needs you.