A little bit stuck with STTN!

[Gooders]

Thanks but I am still strugglying with extending the naps! LO has woken at 6.40am so if I can't extend the naps he will be going for his second nap around 11am! It isn't really working out brilliantly! It would be ok if he woke around 7.30am, like yesterday... Perfect all but the short nap in the middle.

I am unsure whether he is OT or UT?

[Shiv52]

Looking at your EASY he's OT.  You need to reduce the A time after a short nap. 

So after that hour nap you still do 2 hour A time.  I would have took 15 minutes off that and then let him sleep a bit more at the CN.  Also 2 hours A time after a short nap and then a short CN is too long to bedtime.  Have you tried an earlier bedtime?

What have you done to extend naps? 

Does he settle independently for sleep? 

[Gooders]

He does settle independantly and always has. Last night when he went to bed for the night he cried loudly for 5/6mins and I knew straight away he was OT. I can't seem to resettle him back to sleep once he wakes from a nap, it actually seems to make him alot worse. I leave him for 10mins max to see if he will self soothe.

Before I put him down before the short nap he was gigglying and sqwealing as I put him in the grobag, he normally grumps a little. So I had a feeling he was UT and then OT because we did a 2hr A time after a short nap. So I have just done 2.10HR A time and yep as though he is stirring at 30mins! He is 21 weeks on Sunday.

[Shiv52]

UGH!  I remember this age well with my DD1.  Nightmare.  But it did get better at 5.5 months.  As if by magic! 

I was going to suggest stretching your second A time after a good 1..5 hour nap by 10 minutes to see if that would help the second nap.  Is  that the one you stretched or the first one? 

I only ever extended naps by ssh-pat for 10 minutes and if she wasn't back over I got her up.  I found more sucess going in before she woke and settling the second she started stirrring.  Maybe that would work?

[Gooders]

His wakings are so unpredictable... on Sunday he slept 2.5hrs, I normally wake him after 2hrs but fell asleep myself and then yesterday 1.10hr, so I wouldn't know when to go in.

I have extended his first A time, after 2hrs he was sqweeling, laughing, kicking etc so I extended it by 10 mins. He has stirred at 30 mins and now at 45/50 mins but is still down.

I am trying to keep his BT at 7.30pm as his father is not home until 6.30/7pm and it is so important to the pair of us that he sees LO as OH works away alot so when he is home he is desperate to see him, I feel wrong for denying this!?

I understand that this is due to a change in his routine. i.e. STTN! An unusual complaint really, but I really do seem to come unstuck when tweeks are needed to our EASY.

I will report back after he has woken, as to how long he has been down for and until then I will sit here totally still, scared to move incase I disturb him!

[Gooders]

Woke after 1hr 10!!! Sqweeling and moaning, what can I do?

OK panic over he went back to sleep... this nap seems very very unsettled.

Woke from his nap at 10.45 so did 1.45hr, he had a poo in his nappy so that may have explained some unsettleness?

How long should I do for the second nap?

[Gooders]

Ok second nap we did 2.10hr again and once again he stirred around 35mins and woke at 1.10hr but cried out loud for around 15 minutes, it was a cry more like a whimper and then peaked and as I went to get him he stopped...he then re-started 5 minutes later...

This is turning into a nightmare and is becoming so difficult, the more things I try the worse it is getting, I give up!

[*Liz*]

How long have you been working on 2hrs A? When did you move to a 4hrly EASY?

Post the whole EASY at the end of the day and then we can get a clearer picture.

[Gooders]

I have been on 2hr A time for about a month now.
We moved to 4hr EASY around the same time I think, but it was a while back!

Todays EASY:

E&A: 6.40-8.50
S: 8.57 - 10.45 (Stirred around 30mins and woke at 1.10hr and then resettled for another 35mins)

E&A: 10.45 - 12.50
S:12.55 - 2.15 (Stirred around 35mins and then woke at 1.10hr, stirred for a good while before actually getting up)

E&A: 2.15 - 4.10
S:4.10 - 4.45
(Everytime I put him down it takes him a few minutes to go to sleep).

His BT is normally 7.30pm, but I can move this tonight to get out of the OT cycle but ideally want to keep it at 7.30. Yesterday was so much better when he woke an hour later, but we did still have the pesky short nap.

I know he is trying his best, he doesn't take prop or even a DF and maybe I am being hard on myself but a couple of weeks ago we were getting AT LEAST 1.5hr naps and now we are down to 1.10.

Any help would be so welcome, I am tweeking things without advise and just making the situation worse..... ooooh got such a headache!

[~Sara~]

but a couple of weeks ago we were getting AT LEAST 1.5hr naps and now we are down to 1.10.

It sounds to me like the shorter naps were initially caused by needing an A time increase, but it wasn't caught and so now you're dealing with OT.  We went through the exact same thing with DS at this age and I didn't even realize it until we were well into OT territory.

The first thing I would suggest is to not worry about DH getting to see LO for the time being.  I don't mean to sound harsh or cruel (I know how much your DH SO wants to spend time with his little buddy, my DH is the same way).  But, things will even out and that's one pressure you don't need on you right now and not let it determine DS's routine...as it should be DS/his day/how he's slept that determines it.  Like I said, let things even out and then there will be time to adjust to see DH, etc.  Again, I really, truly don't want to sound mean by suggesting that.

Also, I completely agree with with what Kiwi_One said on page 1: EWs are not technically early wakings unless it's less than 10h of night sleep.  It took me a long time to realize that my DS was an 11h night sleeper (sometimes a little bit more, sometimes a little bit less).  Once I knew that, it took a LOT of pressure off of me to get those 12h nights.  What you need to do is figure out how long of a night sleep your DS typically does.  THAT will set the standard to compare by and to adjust his days to.  It's true that good daytime sleep begets good nighttime sleep; I just feel that the days are more flexible than the nights, so to let night sleep take the lead.

Another thing that helped me a tremendous amount was exactly what Shiv has already said: if LO short naps, the following A time has to be reduced to prevent the next nap from being OT.  By how much will depend on the your LO and the circumstances surrounding the nap.  This is where you are the expert (and believe it or not, you are always going to be the expert when it comes to your LO because you're there with him all the time...we're just here to offer suggestions and pay it all forward...we're not technically experts).  Most LOs need anywhere from 15-30 minutes less A time (my DS was a monkey and only preferred 15 minutes less ).

So...hopefully Shiv and Liz will chime in here, too, but I think you'll need to start by increasing his first A time slightly to ~2h15.  Try that for 3 days.  No less   That will give his body time to adjust and to see if that's what he really needed.  Then, you can work on all the subsequent A times and bedtime.

Also, I couldn't tell from your posts...is he actually fully waking up during his naps and then going back to sleep on his own and then sleeping until 1h10?  Or, are you having to go in and resettle him?

HTH a bit!  Honestly, we went through the same thing with DS...it was a real learning experience for me, and I came out of the other side so much more confident in my ability to "whisper" and to recognize the signs of needing more A time.  I hope the same for you *hugs*

[Gooders]

Also, I couldn't tell from your posts...is he actually fully waking up during his naps and then going back to sleep on his own and then sleeping until 1h10?  Or, are you having to go in and resettle him?

Hi I think you are right, he was needing more A time. I will increase A time as of tomorrow. He was waking and resettling himself, he moans, cries, sqweels and then gos back to sleep. I never go in because it just makes him so much worse!

I agree about DH, he understands too after the mess I and DS were in when he got home!

Should I expect the increased A time to cause some OT stirring around 30/40 mins?

Our second nap was after another 2.10 A and he woke at 35mins for 10mins and then resettled to wake again 10 mins later, but the whole nap actually lasted a whopping 1.50hr!

[~Sara~]

He was waking and resettling himself, he moans, cries, sqweels and then gos back to sleep. I never go in because it just makes him so much worse!

The fact that he is resettling himself is really amazing at this age.  I know it might not feel like a celebration, but give yourself a high five    And I completely agree about not going in if he's so good at sending himself back to sleep.

I agree about DH, he understands too after the mess I and DS were in when he got home!

I'm sorry that you all were in, what it sounds to be, quite a state; but I'm glad DH is on board, too.  Like I said, let's just see how things go, get DS some slightly longer naps, and then see where that puts his day

Should I expect the increased A time to cause some OT stirring around 30/40 mins?

I don't know, to be honest.  It might, it might not.  If he does wake, just do what you're doing now--hanging back and letting him resettle.  Go in and comfort/resettle yourself if he's inconsolible and crying an "I need you!!" cry.

Our second nap was after another 2.10 A and he woke at 35mins for 10mins and then resettled to wake again 10 mins later, but the whole nap actually lasted a whopping 1.50hr!

That sounds like a good nap!  I know he woke up a couple of times, but that shouldn't affect him too, too much re: the amount of A time he can handle afterwards.  Now, just the catnap and then bedtime!

[Gooders]

Then Gin and Tonic! Thank you x

[~Sara~]

LOL!!  Sounds like you've got a plan!!

[*Liz*]

I agree with Sara that your LO is in a UT/OT loop, and yes, I would increase the first A time and see if that helps.

My DS was always prone to those transition wake ups. Personally I think they are mainly a developmental blip as LOs do grow out of them. So my 1 year old does it from time to time, most commonly at 1.5hrs now, but if my toddler naps he never does it. If he is going back to sleep then that is the main thing.