Very OT 2 yo - Now no nap!

[Tweakster]

So he's getting 12 hrs overall?  I wonder if the long nap isn't doing you any favors.  I'd try a slightly later bedtime too, when F was taking that super long nap we had to make bedtime later and deliberately set up a 10 hr night (8 - 6) and then he took a 2 hr nap in the day and everyone was happy.  If he did a shorter nap bedtime was closer to 7:30 but never earlier than that.  His day was manageable and we had no bedtime resistance.  It was basically between 21 - 24 mths.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

everyone was happy

This is the thing that's killing me.  I'm happy to do a later BT (well, generally! ) but he's not happy on 12h total.  He's super sensitive, wakes up crying, etc.  It's not all day that he's unhappy but it's more than I'd like to see.  It bums me out.  Maybe he'll just grow into it, though.    I'll give the slightly later BT a try. 

[sianie]

I agree about trying the later BT Kate...it's a really tricky balancing act at this age between day & night sleep.

[Tweakster]

Balancing act indeed.  Kate, think tightrope while blindfolded :-)

How was the night?

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

How was the night?

Screaming at 5:12.    He did settle himself, though, so that was good I guess. Up for the day at 6, though.  Napped 11:30-1:30.  In bed around 7 but playing around until he went down at 8:05.  Tonight he tried a new thing - shouting '1, 2, 3, Go!' and throwing himself into the side of the travel crib.   

Should we try 7:30 for bed tomorrow?  Seems like an awfully long afternoon but I guess he's not going down anyhow.    Who knew we'd still be juggling at this age! 

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Up screaming bloody murder at 3am and then up around 6.  I hate to think we're just going to have to suffer through this but it's been weeks now and I'm just not sure what we can change to get him more sleep...

[Mashi]

I am sure it has been asked, but how are teeth? When we went through this at 26 months, there were NO sign of teeth...but this nonsense went on for 2 more months until the first molar corner popped out and it really was pre-teething of molars.   

But I would think that at his age 12 hours is REALLY short on sleep, unless he has always been a ridiculously low-sleeper. We are pretty average on sleep here, an DS is just now as he nears 3yo moving into 12h of sleep needs.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I am sure it has been asked, but how are teeth?

Well I checked for the first time in a bit and I do think I can see some bulging in the back there, so that could be at the heart of this.  Meds don't seem to make a difference but that has been the case with him in the past when he's been teething.   So I guess that's the wait-it-out we might have to do to see if it's that.

But I would think that at his age 12 hours is REALLY short on sleep, unless he has always been a ridiculously low-sleeper.

Nope, he's always been spot on average or a touch HSN so I know this is super low for him.  I hate seeing him tired and then he doesn't behave well and we get frustrated and the whole thing is a bummer.    I just wish I had that magic wand I've been waiting for for 2 years now!!

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I'll get DH to come and tell the details but things are rough over here with Mr. A.  No NW last night or the night before but still with the long antics before bed.  Last night was a good night and he was asleep around 8 after I had to WI/WO forever.  He was up right around 6.  Completely and utterly refused nap today.  WTH?  He was down at 11:30 and just yelling and carrying on until we gave it up at 1:15. 

What are we doing in the long run here and for BT tonight???

[Tweakster]

We just ran into this at 24 mths and it was the nap.  Sorry I have no advice on how to get more sleep into a kid because I've failed miserably for 2 years but I feel for you guys.  We found that he would get super rested super quick from a longer nap and it only meant it sent us back into the loop again.

12 hrs isn't low for his age - it's lower on the averages only.  13.x seems to be the most average overall.  There was a big Swiss study done which found this.  But only you can tell if its low for your kid :-)

(((hugs Kate)))

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Thanks, Wendy!  Argh, though.  So I guess we do an early BT, then?  But I can't sort out how early.  In bed at 6:30? Earlier?   He has been getting in around 7 or 7:30 and going down around 8 or 8:15..

[Tweakster]

If he's not had a nap I'd go with 6 pm.  And like always praying that he'll tack.  You'll never know unless you try it.  We've been luckier lately but there are also days where he's had a short CN and then gives us less than 10 hrs.  Low sleep needs is one thing but when it's not much more than I'm getting, I start to worry/panic!

It's really hard to say how much is teeth, how much is Grace disruption and how much is him needing less sleep.  I'd hazard a guess that he's not dropped sleep needs but just isn't getting what he needs despite best efforts.  I know it isn't any consolation but there's nothing you can do really.  Just try to set up a decent length night for him and try offering a nap at a decent time.  

So what have the last few days looked like, naps and nights?  Can you post like EAS format - let's see if anything jumps out or we can detect any kind of pattern...

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I'd hazard a guess that he's not dropped sleep needs but just isn't getting what he needs despite best efforts.  I know it isn't any consolation but there's nothing you can do really.

This is exactly what I'm thinking.    Argh!

The last few days have gone like this...

Mon:

6ish: Up
11:30: in crib
11:40: sleep
12:40: up, yelling 'ready, set. go' and throwing himself at the side of the crib, shouting 'big day austin!' repeatedly (it was his birthday )
6:45: in bed screaming and crying - really OT and sad, we had to keep going back and staying with him
1 or so short NW when he settled himself

Tues:
6:10: up
11:50: in crib, carrying on until
12: sleep
1:30: up
7: in bed, I was in and out of there about 8 times
8: sleep

Today:

6:05: up
11:30: in crib yelling, singing, babbling, DH was in and out when he was screaming
1: I got home, DH went in to lay down in there on the small carpet and A stands up saying "Daddy sleep Taupo bed' Taupo is the dog!  Haha. 
1:15: I said forget it and we got him up, DH says he didn't sleep a wink.

So...

I have to go back to work but I'll tell DH to plop him down at 6.  We'll see.  Hope, hope, hope for us that he tacks. 

[elf]

Hey Kate...  We've also had a few no nap days.  What I'm doing is putting him to bed around 12pm/12.30pm and if he doesn't nap I just get him up and it's bed at around 5.45pm (asleep at 6pm - but he is tacking on to his night sleep and then the next day he does a big catch up nap at 12pm).  We've had a few days where he's taken much longer to fall asleep at nap time - not crying but just chatting, playing etc.  Yesterday it took him 40 mins to fall asleep and then he only napped 1.20 mins.  It is too frustrating for me to tweak him too much with having the 2 children so at the mo I am basically doing nap at 12pm each day (unless we get home late so then it's 12.30pm) and if he naps I leave him, if he doesn't I don't stress and just put him to bed at 6pm at the latest.  I have found that he has only skipped a nap maybe once a week so far so I'm not concerned yet.  HTH!

[Tweakster]

So from a quick glance it looks like he needs more A time.  At least 6 pre-nap to get a 1.5 hr nap and then 6 hrs post nap not to refuse bedtime.  Which means you are running out of day and with a nap in the mix your nights aren't going to be that long.

I'd try putting him down for his nap at 12/12:30 at 6+ hrs A and hopefully get less resistance and a better nap.
Example might be
Awake 6
Nap 12:30 - 2
Bedtime asleep by 7/7:30 (I'm going to guess 7:30 here but you'll have to gauge it)

I don't think an early nap is helping, especially if he's fighting it or shorting it.  Hopefully as he starts to shave some OT and just be genuinely tired instead of overtired, he'll start lengthening his night or nap or both!

How was bedtime?