Author Topic: 15 week old cries and won't nap longer then 40 minutes, extremely overtired!  (Read 22697 times)

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Offline Lena marie

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Please Help!  
My beautiful 15 week old baby boy is having a very difficult time sleeping during the day.  He is lucky to get a total of 2 hours sleep.  His sleep problems started about a month and half ago and they have progressively gotten worse.  Just this past week he has started screaming crying whenever I start to get ready to put him to sleep.  I follow his cues for when he is ready for a sleep, it used to be every 90 minutes, but now he seems to go longer.  Although sometimes he seems tired right after he wakes and often cries, but won't go back to sleep.  I am going nuts trying to help him sleep, he is constantly tired and spends a lot of the day grumpy.  He also seems to be teething in a lot of discomfort which is not helping the situation.  I am not sure I understand the whole Easy process.  I started making a log of his sleep patterns a couple of days ago, they are very inconsistent.  He also seems to be feeding a lot, every hour and half and now sometimes the only thing that will calm him to sleep is the breast.  However he either wakes up 30 minutes into his nap or like clock work 40 minutes into his nap.  I often stay in the room with him and wait for him to stir when I start shushing him.  Gosh I am at my wits end, I am trying everything, co sleeper, crib, nap nanny, our bed, rocking, sound machine, shushing, swaddle, no swaddle, I spend most of my day trying to get him to sleep.  I have been trying to be consistent and have a routine, but at this point I have to do whatever it takes to get him to sleep.  He has suffered from digestive issues in the past, but now seems to be doing well besides the sleep issue which I believe he is suffering from sleep deprivation.  He is so tired all the time, he needs to sleep, but he fights it so hard during the day, wailing inconsolably. He  goes to bed usually around 8 pm and will sleep til around 12.30 or 1 am, then back to sleep by 2 am and sleep til about 5:30 am.  I could go on forever, and I know this post sounds scattered, I just really need to know what to do, I have done a lot research to no avail and now I am dreading nap time because I don't want him to start crying because it takes a long time to calm him down.  I do not believe in the cry it out method, but I am open to any other nurturing, supportive ways to help him sleep.

Thursday June 30
Nap 1 - 10:20 am - 12:45 pm Nap Nanny
Nap 2 - attempted from 2:45 - 5:00 pm, crying
Nap 3 - 5:00 pm - 5:20 pm in stroller
Bed - 8:00 pm - 1:00 am
feed
        2:00 am - 5:15 am
feed
        5:30 am - 7:30 am

Friday July 1st
Nap 1 - 9:45 am - 11:35 am - nap nanny
Nap 2 - 1:30 - 2:00 pm - nap nanny
Nap 3 - 2:45 - 3:15 pm stroller
Nap 4 - 6:00 - 6:30 pm co sleeper (thought this might be bedtime, so I did the whole bed routine) inconsolable crying when he woke for a long time, had to take him for a walk to calm him down.
Bed - 9:40 pm - 12.30 am on tummy after breast on our bed
feed
        1:00 am - 4:00 am
feed
        4:30 am - 6:15 am



Saturday July 2nd
Nap 1 7:30 am - 8:15 on breast in our bed
Nap 2 9:30 am - 9:50 am stroller
Nap 3 12:15 pm - 12.45 pm Nap Nanny, crying when woke up continued for an hour
Nap 4 3:45pm to 7:15pm
Bed 9:30 pm


* AS YOU CAN SEE IT IS GETTING WORSE

PS A NAP NANNY IS A SLEEPING DEVICE THAT KEEPS THE BABY AT MORE OF AN INCLINE.


Blessings
Lena

Offline ZacsMumme

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Just want to pop by and offer some (HUGS) Unfortunately at this age we were not really on EASY at all as DS was so unsettled with reflux.

I just wanted to ask if you have ruled out anything else that could be disrupting his sleep ie reflux? (You just mentioned he had digestive issues and takes small feeds to settle, and this had been going on about 6 weeks which puts you around the right age [6-8 weeks] for reflux to develop)

I am sure some of the ladies here will be able to help you out. :-*
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline deb

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I was also wondering about reflux; it sounds like he has a hard time getting comfortable and when he does wake between sleep cycles he might be hurting. Small feeds could be comfort feeds to soothe the burn. It took meds to get Josie past this stage. Once she was on them, she began to sleep again and was a much happier baby overall.

Offline Lena marie

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We have ruled out reflux, here is the full story.  Auggie ha suffered severe gas pains that cause him to cry during feedings since he was born.  The pediatrician wrote 3 month colic down on his file.  We tried gas drops, colic calm to no avail.  I have a fast let down and I believe this caused a lot of discomfort for him, so we worked diligently with a lactation consultant, I would pump my breasts before feedings to slow down the flow and often feed him with me laying on my back.  Auggie seemed to get progressively worse, now spitting up wheneve you laid him down or bent his tummy on anyway, I would keep him upright for 40 minutes after feeding, however during this time we had him on a 90 minute sleep schedule, he would show tired signs at exactly 90 minutes and we would put him down.  We have always had to stay with him rocking his co sleeper, shushing and putting our hand on his chest, sometimes for 20-30 minutes.  Anyway, so along came 3 months and Auggie was in no better shape, so I went back to the doctor, with a huge list of symptoms in hand, he basically said that he would outgrow it, and prescribed Zantac suggesting it may help with his gas.  My husband and were so sad to have to give our little man a drug, but if it meant he would feel better, we would do whatever it takes.  Although my husband I hoped we had found the culprit, reflux (although the doctor never suggested reflux) and possibly the solution, Zantac, we felt within ourselves that this wasn't really the problem, so after a week with no change at all, we stopped the medication and concluded that Auggie was getting too much foremilk causing the terrible gas, so I decided to pump my breasts and feed him the milk from the bottle for a 24 hour period, and his gas seemed to be less and less painful, he didnt spit up at all and seemed happier all round. My breasts seemed to reset themselves and now he is back in the breast.  He still has gas, but it doesn't seem to bother him as much and he doesn't spit up very often.  We took Auggie to a chiropractor and kineasiologist, she said his illio Secal valve was not working properly and he want digesting properly, she taught us how to lightly massage his tummy and so far it has been working and he has been a much happier baby.  Except for him not being able to nap, a these new screaming attacks.  I'm not sure what to do, I don't want my little bubba to be in so much discomfort and so tired.  I also feel so frustrated and tired, I spend everyday at home trying to soothe him and put him to sleep.  He has now started screaming everytime we go in the car, so I spend everyday at home, I'm trying to do everything in my power to give him what he needs.  He is a wonderful boy and spends a lot of time smiling as we play and learn together, he just won't nap during the day and gets very crabby.  Another reason I don't believe it is reflux is because he sleeps very well at night.
Thank you so much for your replies, it is nice to know I am not alone and people care and want to help.
Blessings
Blessings
Lena

Offline Lena marie

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Sorry for typos, typing one handing while trying to put bubba to sleep of course, lol
Blessings
Lena

Offline ZacsMumme

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(HUGS) hun,

I just want to mention a few things about you discounting the reflux.

The first is that Zantac takes up to 2 weeks to have an effect on the infant. If you stopped the medication after 1 week your LO won't have been taking it long enough for you to have seen any improvement. The other thing is Zantac is prescribed by weight, and often Drs start with a low dose. Usually this dose is too low and it needs to be increased. SOme infants don't respond to it at all and require a PPI.

Another reason I don't believe it is reflux is because he sleeps very well at night.
I hate to say this...but this is classic reflux :( A lot (not all) of reflux babies crash at night from sheer exhaustion and often will also feed well as they are more relaxed. My LO never had pain at night, even for night feeds which seemed odd at the time, but is actually quite common.

The screaming from naps, esp if it is happening 20 mins into a nap and up to 1 hour after feeds really screams acid pain from silent reflux to me, but I totally understand why you have your doubts. Babies do outgrow reflux, but usually by 1 year. My DS has moderate to severe reflux and only after 7 months and sill on PPIs did I see a completely new baby emerge.

It sounds like you have had a pretty rough road with him hun :-* I really hope you are okay and getting some support from family so you can have a break x
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Lena marie

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Thanks for the reply, he doesn't cry when he is napping, he only cries during the day when we try to put him down for a nap, he gas now started to whine as soon as I walk into the darkened room were his co sleeper is and stops as soon as I walk out with him.  We just to put him to sleep and he had a melt down, so I picked him up and put him on the breast and he fell asleep.  I'm sure he will stir at 40 minutes and I will try and get him back to sleep.  Sometimes when he wakes at 40 minutes, he is so happy
But gets grumpy sometimes a short time after cause he is tired.  Other times after he wakes from one of these short naps he is super happy for hours and only gets mad when we try to put him to sleep.  My husband thinks he is manipulating us a little and doesn't want to sleep unless in mummies arms, he is willing to let him cry it out, but I can't do it, cause what if he is crying cause he is in some kind of pain, plus he gets so worked up it's terrible.  Also wanted to mention he sweats a lot when sleeping and feeding and aggressively pulls at the back of his scalp and hair sometimes when feeding or when I am trying to put him to sleep.
Thank u so much for your advise, I am so distraught and confused
Blessings
Lena

Offline ZacsMumme

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he gas now started to whine as soon as I walk into the darkened room were his co sleeper is and stops as soon as I walk out with him.
Some babies always cry when going down for naps, it is their way of shutting out the stimulation. That said my DS cries when I take him into his room if he isn't tired enought. How long is your first A time usually?
Have you done the baby personality quiz?

y husband thinks he is manipulating us a little and doesn't want to sleep unless in mummies arms, he is willing to let him cry it out, but I can't do it, cause what if he is crying cause he is in some kind of pain, plus he gets so worked up it's terrible.
Babies don't know consequence honey, they cant play us, as much as sometimes we feel they are. The only things they cry for is comfort, security, food, sleep and if you are in pain/uncomfortable. I know it is hard, but CIO has been proven in recent studies to break the bond of trust between parent and baby. It may work, but for all the wrong reasons. Imagine being totally helpless and calling for your mum and being ignored...the only reason they stop crying is survival instinct to save their energy. :(

I know it is really hard, and you are doing a wonderful wonderful job. Just a question re the sweating, do you put him in natural fibres - cotton and wool rather than polyester and fleece? These unnatural fibres don't breathe and can cause babies to sweat a lot. The aggressive behaviour could be OT or uncomfortable related?

(HUGS) we are all here to help you get through this - It wont last forever, I can promise you that :-*
***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Lena marie

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You made me feel so good and a little teary, it has been a bit of a rough run with my beautiful baby.  I will do anything to make him happy and healthy, I am so happy to hear that you share my thoughts in regards to CIO, I don't agree with it for my son, but of course it is what so many people suggest and they look down upon me for not doing so, like I am a fool and spoiling my child, which is ridiculous and impossible at this age.  I am not sure what his easy should be, or how the proccess works, I am very new to this sight.  After he feeds he is usually up fo between 1.5 hours to 2 hours, he likes to face outwards in his Bjorn and do things with me like water the garden and other stuff around the house, he loves it!  Until I start the nap proccess.  Right now he is still asleep, he fell asleep on the breast and I was able to transfer to the bed next to me, he is on his tummy and everytime he stirs, I pat his little back.  I don't get anytime to do anything these days, but I will do anything for my little man.  I will have to check what his clothes are made of, I think mostly cotton, he's just a sweaty little monkey, mainly on his head when feeding or fighting sleep. What is the personality quiz?  Where do I find it?  Have you heard of the no cry it out sleep solution?  I just started reading it.
Thank you once again, this is my first baby and I want the world for him and it really hurts to see him in any discomfort.
Lena xo
Blessings
Lena

Offline deb

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I LOVED the No-Cry Sleep Solution - there are some similarities between Pantley's methods and Tracy's, and some of the techniques are also posted in Companion Books and Methods, I think.

Agree with PP that baby is FAR FAR too young to understand any kind of consequence or manipulation. That is a much higher-order mental thing than your LO can do at this young age. Maybe when he's 2 or 3 he might start, but really, he's as mentally and intellectually ready to drive a car as he is to manipulate you. :)

Even Ferber, the Controlled Crying guy, didn't recommend CC for babies under 6 months of age.

Offline ZacsMumme

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I don't agree with it for my son, but of course it is what so many people suggest and they look down upon me for not doing so, like I am a fool and spoiling my child, which is ridiculous and impossible at this age.
(HUGS) I know how you feel, people are very quick to advocate CIO, and I always feel bad when I say I don't believe in it...which is silly as it is the most natural thing to want to nurture and love your child when they cry!!!

I agree, I have read the NCSS book Deb mentioned and it is great. A lot of the things didn't relate to us ie co-sleeping and BF to sleep. But there are some great ideas and concepts in there.
Thank you once again, this is my first baby and I want the world for him and it really hurts to see him in any discomfort.
  :-* Of course you do hun, and you are being a wonderful mum to him remember that. It is hard work, especially when they are so unsettled. I used to say to myself 'its not meant to be like this!'...but it is totally rewarding too. :) We are all here to help you through this x

This is the FAQ board in the EASY forum, there are some great posts here that you can read through :) Near the bottom is the 'know your BABY personality quiz' It is not about putting your baby in a box,but understanding that babies are all different, but some have similar traits and there are ways to be help your baby with given traits to sleep, feed, settle, play etc. There are also support threads for spiritd and touchy babies. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=82.0
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Lena marie

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Sara, how did your doctor know that your bubba had reflux?  Did you go to a specialist?
Blessings
Lena

Offline ZacsMumme

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TBH I am a bit of a research freak so when DS turned 5 weeks and it all turned belly up and he was doing all these odd things (like choking on milk 1/2 hour after a feed, crying on the boob :( , screaming into naps) I did some research and discovered he was developing all the signs of silent reflux. I went armed with all this (and my mum as back up to my story - she is a nurse too) to the Dr at 6 weeks. I had already started doing everything non-med related to help him with not much progress. I was very lucky in that my Dr had been through it with her LO and was very very supportive and co-operative. In NZ peads are often not interested unless the LO is losing weight. DS was gaining weight fine (in fact he is tubby) so we didn't go to the pead. I was prescribed ranitidine for him, which in hind sight never controlled it, but did help. It was only at about 4 months when we were on the max does of ranitidine for his weight that my Dr said - lets try losec....it was a lifesaver. :)

For me - I knew in my heart something was wrong, and that it was reflux, so the Dr really just confirmed it for me. In saying that he was an easy case to diagnose really...he was classic reflux symptom wise.
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Lena marie

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I am not sure what is wrong with Auggie, today he is whimpering at the breast and arching his back a little, spat up a few times and is quiite grumpy.  It's so hard because I would hate to put him on drugs and it isn't reflux and the tests to confirm reflux are far too invasive for me.  I will take him to the doctor again this week and discuss his options. I recently ordered a hazelwood and amber necklace for him, awaiting it's arrival.  I'm definitely at the end of my rope, I'm so worried, frustrated and stressed, it would be so much easier if I just knew what it was, I've been trying to work it out for 16 weeks now.  His extreme gas and pains is still his biggest issue, Plus he is dribbling bucket loads, biting Everything he can and grunting and has mucus in his stools ( can be from teething and extra saliva). He is also often has explosive, body contorting poops.  I have to solve this!!!!
Blessings
Lena

Offline ZacsMumme

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If it makes you feel better the medication the Drs prescribe are thoroughly tested and proven to safe for babies. They would never prescribe a dose that was over and above what a babies system could cope with. Untreated reflux can cause damage to the esophagus if that makes you feel any better about talking to a Dr about trailing reflux medication.

I do not know about MSPI but if your LO has mucus stools he may be intolerant or have allergies. A high percentage of reflux babies also have dairy intolerances. I really do think if your LO is in this much pain and this unsettled this late in the piece it is unlikely just that he is 'colicky' andthat a trip to the Drs may really help him (and you) out :-*

(HUGS)

***Sara***
https://www.facebook.com/tomiandroo


DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.