need help deciding which sleep training method to choose

[babyrose]

hi, A sleeps has been awaful he accpets naps but when it comes to b/time he screams the house down. at naps he is great i can lie beside him and he falls asleep no problem but b/time is a different story.
kiusmum you are doing great! stay strong and consistant, everything will fall into place.
bexo9, i was reading ire other post, things look like they have calmed down.thats good.

speak to you soon.

[Bex09]

Hi, yes things have settled right back down here thank goodness and I am back to being able to WO and C falls asleep. No idea what I will do when the next bad teething bout hits though, I can't cave again but it is so hard. I guess A's sleep is bound to be off as you are staying away from home at the minute aren't you? Plus he will probably pick up on the upset and all that is going on. Do you think he is UT or OT at BT? Is he on one nap now and how does your routine look? I will have a look if you want hun? How did today go, it was the funeral wasn't it? Hope you are doing ok?

Angela if you are having trouble getting K to sleep then it could be a routine issue, again if you want to post his day I will try to have a look. Or you could always start your own thread for a few more experienced eyes on things, if you do this then post the link I will follow you there to help if I can.

[KiusMum]

babyrose..K did that @ bedtime 2 days back..even though he was so sleepy he threw quite a tantrum @ bedtime becos he wanted to play and not sleep..i hope thinngs r getting back to normal for u..slowly hows A sleeping at night?? r there any NWs?? let us know if we can help any way.

bex09, his routine v similar to urs except for the bedtime....last night and today hve not been good thugh..nothing acc. to routine..
8.45 pm - asleep
11.10 - 11.30 - NW, had milk and went back to sleep immed.
5.40 - 6.30 - EW..did not go back to sleep, tried hard, milk , rocking , patting etc.
6.35 - up for the day
9.10 - 11.10- nap (slept in car, cos i had to be out)
3.30 - 4.30 - nap ( put him down for a short nap..fearing he might fall asleep around 5ish)

now i m not sure..what time is bedtime going to be today..lets see as the routine is totally messed up.his normal routine is as follows

6.45 - 7.00 am - up for the day
7.30 - breakfast
9.30 - vitamins, snack
11/11.30 - lunch
12/12.15 - 2.30 - Nap( this is between 2 - 3 hrs when at home, at day care its aroudn 2 hrs or 2.15 hrs, but in the same time range)
3.30 - afternoon tea
6.00 pm - dinner
7.30 - bath , get ready for bed
8 pm - milk , stories
8.30 - 9 pm - asleep

i know the time he falls asleep is v v late..and i m tryign to bring it closer..do u ladies have any other suggestions??

i think i will wait for a while before i start a new thread..today i m going to go for step 3, becos i seemed to have success with it for the afternoon nap. plan is to succeed in step 3 hopefully within a week and see how things improve..if not i will start a new thread..esp. will need night weaning help i think.

[Bex09]

I have not fed C in the night since she was 6 months old Angela so I can't really offer any advice on weaning the NF, sorry. I am pretty sure that you just need to pick a time and then decide that you are not feeding in the night from that point and use PD, GW or WI/WO for NW. If you are making good progress with step 2 then I would move on to step 3 now though yes. The advice I got was to move through the steps as quickly as possible so that one thing doesn't become a prop, it worked for us.

As for your routine the one thing that jumps out is that you could do with bringing BT forward like you said. K is doing a really long A time to BT and I would think that he is OT and that is causing your issues. Some days he is doing 6 or 6.5 hours which is a long time for his age. I would try for a BT of 7.30-7.45 after a nap that ends at 2.30, so around 5h of A time. How does that sound?

[KiusMum]

yes i m tryign to get his bedtime closer to 8 pm or so..last time when i did GW and i tried to rush with the steps i felt like he had not completely adjusted ot the difference and ended up with him being upset , cranky and not achieveing any results out of it. so thts why i m taking my time this time..i think we r making slow and steady progress..

with the night weaning, u can either go cold turkey or reduce the amount of milk u give each night or substitue it for water..as i said..once i hve had success with step 3..i m definitely looking into the milk issue..thnks for ur suggestions bex09 hope C is doing good with her teeth.

[babyrose]

thats us back in our own house last night, A now has a sore throat and a little tooth just about to break through any day. after his milk he fell asleep on me just crashed. he woke up twice after being put to bed, then not til later on in the night. we took him in beside us its been happeining quite alot recently.

[Bex09]

Hi hun hope you are ok and settled back in at home now? I feel like it is just one thing after another in terms of coughs, colds, teething, developmental leaps, etc so know where you are coming from. C is just getting over a cold, which didn't effect sleep too much, but she now has a cough and it is just awful. She coughs on and off all night so... yes we bring her in with us! I am so crap in the middle of the night! On a good note (touch wood) she is still falling asleep on her own but I am sure that the coming in our bed is not going to help things. I just can't help myself when I am sleepy and tired. How is A doing with his falling asleep?

Angela - how are you getting on with K? Any luck bringing his BT forward?

[babyrose]

getting more settled now, cant believe the difference in A's sleeping already. we pretty much put him in the cot he is already to fall asleep by himself then he just stands up wanting PU, i keep putting him down though and just rub his back for a wee bit. he doesnt even want rocked or cuddled. i thought maybe WO at his nap times as he is easier to get to sleep then but i think he would have a melt down!

i know how u feel about bringing A in beside us i cant face settling him during the night. im sure things will pass soon enough with C's ilnesses, teething etc.

[babyrose]

got a great nap from A today 2.5hrs he hasnt slept that well for ages yipee! he doesnt seem to like getting his back rubbed when going to sleep now but likes getting his hair stroked i think thats ok?

[KiusMum]

hi bex09, babyrose..

omg cant believe that we all are in the same boat..K is down with cold n cough since 3 days as well and we had horrible NWs..last night was much better though..i tried to keep up the sleep training
during the cold n cough..but it didnt work..he was v v restless..i think hes also breaking a tooth..i dnt know which one though..cos i think hes mouth is ready to erupt with teeth all the time..i keep seeing white bumps here n there..some r half way through..some r just at the surface and some gums r swollen..so hes got a lot going on i guess. 2 nights back...when he woke up arund midnight becos of the bad cough/cold..i patted him in his cot and he went back to sleep in 10 -12 mins..then i did the huge mistake of putting a small cushion underneath to help in his breathing..gosh what a huge mistake..he got so disturbed,,not only did he wake up he couldnt fall asleep for the next 3 hrs..i tried everything..neways lesson learnt..i guess he was uncomfortable as well becos of the pain.

hes doing better now..for the cold/cough i would suggest putting a humidifer in their room, we have one with a small container to add oil and i use few drops of eucalyptus..its a lil strong though..u might want to try rosemary..but it works wonders..it does make the room very steamy but it helps him to sleep better..i also elevated his mattress and during the day i massage his chest with a lil mustard oil , u could also use eucalyptus. it just increases the internal body heat so that the cold melts and is easier to get out of the system.

bex09, its v difficult for me to bring the bedtime forward,  cos by the time i pick him up from day care and come home frm work..its already 6 pm..and then i cook, feed him , bathe him and then put him to bed. but i m trying..i think today i can succeed in getting his bedtime a little forward..fingers crossed. i had little success with step 3 and then the cold/cough hit..i m hoping i can get back on track by friday.

i hope A and C are doing much better now.. 

[babyrose]

i need to stop bringing in A beside us, im not even getting a sleep now he cries in his sleep b/cos there isnt enough room, he's like a karate kid really early in the morning im so tired to do anything about it. i can put A straight in the cot and settle him that way.

kiusmum how are you doing now?have things calmed down?
bex09, hows C getting on?

[babyrose]

ive just put A down for a nap about an hr ago and decided that im going to make another GW plan to get him to go to sleep on his own in the cot now that i can place him in it.

[KiusMum]

hi babyrose..

things r better..or hmmn r they?? i hve progress in GW, but new issues hve popped up. so now I m on step 3 of GW..putting K down sleepy but awake..he has this mantra song sort of which he sings before drifting off to sleep like a pitched 'aaaa...'..so i put him down mid way thru his song..his eyes might b open at times they r closed but i know hes not asleep..and then i just thump the mattress or pat the mattres..he will roll all over the cot and try and come and lie down on my hand ..this takes aroudn 15-20 mins before he falls alseep ..so i think going good. durign the night..he will either sleep straight through for 9 hrs..so either from 8.15 - 5 am or 9.20 - 6 am and then he just refuses to sleep after that..but he willthen have a cat nap a taroudn 8.30 or 9.30 am depending on his wake up time..so obviously he has not had enough night time sleep. sometimes when he has a NW..he will not sleep for 2 -3 hrs straight or he might sleep within 30 or 45 mins and then wake up 30/45 mins later in the morning for the day..i am now also weaning him off night feeds, so no feeds before 5 am. he is doing good on those.as he doesnt wake up in the night or i succeed in settleing him w/o a night feed.

i think the issue is still that he is not falling asleep completely independently and when he does succeed in that..all the other issues will go away..hopefully..fingers crossed

i m happy u r coming up with a good GW plan..let me know if u need any help..i guess we justneed to b persistent and determined abt it

bex09 hows C doing ??

[babyrose]

thats great you are oing really well is there a chance he is OT? i know that when A is OT he wakes up at the crack of dawn and wont go back to sleep does he sleep well during the day?

i might ask you both to look at our routine we didnt get  home til late last night and got A asleep by 9:15, he was up every 10mins after that til i decided to go to bed at 10:30 i took him inbeside he slept soundly til 7:50 this morning. he didnt even budge! but the two nights before he was so unsettled i cant figure it out...

6:35 awake
8:10 b/fast
11:35 lunch
12:05 sleep (1hr40 dad woke A up 
14:15 snack
17:30 dinner
21:15  b/feed and bed

on nights we have a great sleep during the day say 2.5 to 3hrs he wakes up 4 or 5 hrs after b/time.

[Bex09]

Hi ladies I haven't forgotten about you! Back in work tomorrow so I am mad busy ATM. Will pop back when I have more time to reply though. will post soon.