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Offline anna*

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How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« on: July 16, 2011, 17:49:02 pm »
I'm perfectly happy to send him to bed without, but he WILL NOT STOP whining about wanting dessert! I am going to throttle him! And now bedtime will be a MESS and I will lose my sh!t because I am already on my last shred of patience, and then right when I'm about to turn his lights out he'll say 'I want to eat my supper now'. And I will say no and cue another half hour tantrum.

Ugh.
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lilac83

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2011, 18:01:20 pm »
For me, it depends how often you have dessert. We only have it on a rare occasion, so if DD knows it's coming chances are good that she won't eat much dinner (or any dinner) and then want dessert, so I just give it to her. However, after she eats dessert she will usually eat more of her dinner. :P
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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2011, 18:07:22 pm »
We are the same, dessert is very rare, so if we do have it I let them get away with not eating much supper.  I think if asked I would let Masyn eat what was set out for supper, but nothing else.  We have a rule that if you don't like what is for supper you can have something else - as long as you can make it yourself! (this does not include candy, junk, etc as we don't keep that stuff in the house)
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2011, 18:10:39 pm »
We usually have either plain unsweetened yogurt or a banana. That's what he's crying for, or raisins, or a biscuit ( not that we usually have biscuits). He just wants domthibg that isn't what I prepared for dinner (which incidentally I know he likes but wouldn't even taste).
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2011, 18:13:30 pm »
That's what I"m trying to enforce Heidi, that if you don't eat what is for dinner there is no alternative. He wouldn't taste what is on his plate. Now it is 7.10 and he should be in PJs in bed having stories, but he won't let him help him get changed, won't get changed by himself, had to be carried up the stairs, and is just screaming in his room, it's no longer about dinner it's about not wanting to go to bed and 'I want to do a little bit of playing'. He lost his change for playing because he spent an hour whining about dinner!
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Offline skatty

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2011, 18:30:44 pm »
I think I am quite lenient but on the occassions we do have pudding which will usually be something like yoghurt I will let L leave some of her dinner and still eat dessert. Does he not eat any dinner?
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lilac83

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2011, 18:33:49 pm »
I would probably give DD the yogurt or fruit if she asked for it, but also give her some of what DH and I were having as well. I wouldn't go out of my way to make something different for her though. If she wanted a biscuit (which I assume is like a cookie?) or some other treat, that falls under rare occasion here so I give her one and then she eats her dinner. She eats healthy enough 99% of the time that I don't worry too much about what she eats, but she's normally pretty agreeable. If she started giving me problems about certain things, then I would talk to her away from the table about it and try to either come up with a workable agreement or just not buy the treat that is causing the problem. For instance, DD is OBSESSED with gum. We have a 2 piece rule. I put 2 pieces on the table and that's it for the day. She knows this and can chew her 2 pieces whenever she wants. Sometimes she picks times when I would have said no if she would have asked, like she likes to chew gum right before nap while we read books :P. But then she spits it out and that's that. If she would start putting up a fuss about wanting more than 2 pieces, I would just not buy gum.
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Offline skatty

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2011, 18:37:01 pm »
How about if you say yes you can have ..... after we have eaten dinner, so not like making him eat up all his dinner "or there is no dessert" but just so he knows he will get what he wants and doesn't need to worry about it?
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2011, 18:45:04 pm »
I tend not to offer the dessert if M doesnt eat or try dinner.  I had been just giving it anyway but it was getting silly with her refusing to eat or only eating a few bites and then a few minutes later asking for a yogurt or toast or something else.  We had two bad nights when she realised the rule had changed but since then she has been fine.  There have been nights she starts to refuse to eat and I'll remind her there is nothing else until she eats some dinner and that usually keeps her on track and if she doesn't want to eat she just gets down and then doesn't ask for anything else so I assume she just wasn't that hungry at dinner. 

Is this an ongoing thing Anna?  Or been going on for a while? I don't expect M to eat everything on her plate but I do expect her to give it a try so I am pretty fair to her. 

Hope he settles to bed.  I have to say in these sorts of cases I do remind M that it was her choice not to eat. So rather than try to reason just say 'mummy said you need to eat to get yogurt but you said no.  So next time when mummy says eat dinner you can choose to do that and then you'll not be so upset but for now we are finished talking about it'.  But they do know how to go on and on and on about things don't they? 


{{{{hugs Anna}}}}
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Offline deb

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2011, 18:46:51 pm »
Was going to suggest something similar: "Of course you may have [yogurt and fruit], just as son as you eat [supper/X amount of supper/X forkfuls of what's on your plate] - it''ll be waiting for you!"

There were times when with my kids I'd alternate, say, a blueberry and a bite of meal food so they were getting some of everything; they ate a fair amount of the meal that way, and as long as they did so, I was OK with it. Had it become an issue of "I won't eat my meal until I've had ALL the dessert," the dessert would have gone away or vastly reduced with the talk about real food being good fuel for bodies to keep us healthy and so on. (Not always without protest or argument, but they got the speech anyway more than once. ;D)

Another suggestion is to speak with him at the beginning of a day, remind him how unpleasant it was the night before with all the fussing about dessert and you're tired of the fussing and crying and screaming, so for a while you're not planning to buy any more dessert food until the issue is settled, or that IF there is dessert, it's going to be something small - for instance a slice of apple or a strawberry or two, and that's IT. But - perhaps he can have some input into his supper as a compromise. (And he may pick a piece of fruit, which is really OK, and which might not end up on his plate until at least some of the main course is eaten up. ;))

Alternately, you can remind him how unpleasant the night before was, tell him you're not prepared to deal with it again, and that if he throws the same kind of fuss, desserts will be gone for a few days until suppertime and bedtime have settled. How long "a few days" is is really up to you. :) Then he gets a chance to adjust his ways, and you can remind him during the day a few times and again at suppertime at the table - and if he throws a fit, so be it.
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 18:52:13 pm »
Yeh that's what I did Deb. I just got 15 mins of whining about 'If I eat supper my tummy will be too full for yoghurt.' He didn't touch his supper, not one bite.

I know about talking about it beforehand but this is not usually an issue. I don't want to raise it as being something he could do, if the evening is most likely to pan out fine. It's just that when things don't go well I've got no tools.

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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 18:58:42 pm »
TBH this really wasn't about dinner. It could have been about anything. I guess the question is, how do you deal with a 3.5 year old who will not let it drop, even though they KNOW that no means no and who will perpetuate their own tantrum for hours, who has an answer for everything.

Stan KNOWS that he gets fruit or yoghurt or whatever when he has eaten his dinner. He KNOWS he doesn't have to eat everything on his plate, but he does have to taste it. He knows that food is fuel for our bodies. I won't let him only eat fruit because given that option he WILL only eat fruit and will eat it all day at the expense of anything else (and give himself tummy ache).

I'm not going to say that I'm not going to buy any more fruit or make any more plain yoghurt - we all eat those things and our house is seriously, literally, honestly  not big enough to hide a fruit bowl!
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2011, 19:01:56 pm »
Quote from: anna* on July 16, 2011, 18:52:13 pm
It's just that when things don't go well I've got no tools.
I'm finding this too but I do find that when things go belly up we just have to get through them best we can and then we can approach it the next day and hope it doesn't turn into a 'thing'.  I think the tools you have are just following through with whatever you said.  There are no tricks at this age to stopping the meltdown or their continued determination to wear you down.  I think this is just all part of the process of them learning to work through their disappointment of not getting what they want and eventually they will learn that mummy really does mean it so no point bothering with all the drama.  KWIM?


My Gran always offers M those hard sticky sweets which i don't allow her the have.  The other week when we were there I said no because they were bad for teeth and she had the most horrendous meltdown and would not calm down.  In the end I had to lift her and put her in the car and just go home.  I was near deaf by the time I got home and she kept on going for about an hour.  I felt so inadequate as I just didn't know what I should be doing other than say 'i know you are cross and disappointed mummy said you couldn't have a sweet'.   Later on we talked about it  and went back to my grans a few days later and it wasn't an issue at all.  She actually said 'no gran they are bad for my teeth' and she chose a plain biscuit instead.   So my 'tools' are what happened after the major incident but in the moment not a lot I can do but let her get over it and realise nothing is changing.  KWIM?  
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2011, 19:07:40 pm »
Yeh. It just feels so wrong when I'm holding the door shut to keep him in his room. I just look at Brad and neither of us has a clue what to do. It ends up not even being about X any more, now it's just a battle of wills. Like, if the tantrum started off being about dinner, and ended up being about not wanting to go to bed, and it's already after bedtime, and he's howling and begging for a story, do I read the story, or add more fuel by saying 'It's too late for stories' (because you have been carrying on and wheedling and whining and anyway I don't feel like reading you a story because you are DOING MY HEAD IN, and any book I choose is wrong, yet you refuse to choose one).

For the record, I read the story.
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2011, 19:14:45 pm »
Sorry for the serial posting, things just keep occurring.

I guess what it is, I don't know how to deal with anything that comes up within a couple hours of bedtime, because it will just run and run and end up with everyone in tears. So he could be being totally obnoxious, and I'm loathe to tackle it because I KNOW it is going to mean two hours of screaming, kicking hell and I don't have the darn energy for it.

PS thanks for the hugs. Feeling really worn down.
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Offline deb

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2011, 19:16:00 pm »
Since it's the end of the day, I'd approach it differently than I would other things in the day. It's the onset of OT, I'd imagine, and OT kinda needs its own set of guidelines IMO.
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2011, 19:18:15 pm »
Yeh that's a part of it for sure. I don't know what I should be doing, only that anything I try doesn't work.
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Offline koe2moe

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 19:37:11 pm »
Hugs, Anna.  I read "kids, parents, power struggles" recently and it seems to help a lot with this kind of situation.  It suggests to name his emotions or how you think he's feeling...  For instance, this evening we were in the car on the way home just after lots of snacks and it's 6:40, our normal bt is around 9 these days.  DS started getting very whiny and complained and cried that he had pain but couldn't tell me where it was.  I thought it was the diaper being too tight, I loosened it.  He kept whining and like this annoying cries.  I was almost to a point of ignoring him because he's not helping me to help him.  I suddenly remember the book and just asked him if he's tired, because he just yawned and then I realized he might actually be hungry, I asked if he was hungry and if he wanted a sandwich which i had prepared for lunch.  He immediately went quiet, nodded, and took the sandwich and was happily eating. 

The book says that no child is out to get us, when they behave in this way to disagree with us or not listening to us, it's fueled by a reason.  If we help find the reason by talking or by naming it, it would lower the intensity and can help finding a solution,  sometimes it's just about being understood.

I am not sure what emotions or reasons Stan might have at the time, can it be just tired?  Too tired to chew on proper food or he just wanted something cold and easy to eat?  Do you think you know why he got like that this evening?

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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2011, 19:44:11 pm »
When I try to name his feelings, or talk to him at all he just covers his face and makes this really annoying high pitched squeal to block me out. Or yells at me to 'Don't talk mummy'. or "don't say that'. (even if I'm just saying something like 'Wow, I can see you feel so cross with mum about [whatever]). This is a new behaviour and I find it SO difficult to deal with and we get it all. the. time (not only when tired). Does not WANT to be spoken too, or reasoned with, even before he is at the stage of being upset - it's like he WANTS me to get angry. If he does something trying to get a reaction out of me - like at dinner throwing his spoon - and I ignore it, he will say 'Look mum, I threw my spoon.' So I shrug and say, 'yep, we can pick it up later', then he does the cover-his-face-squeal-tell-me-not-to-say-that. He WANTS me to get angry.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 19:46:54 pm by anna* »
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 19:48:17 pm »
Quote from: anna* on July 16, 2011, 19:14:45 pm
So he could be being totally obnoxious, and I'm loathe to tackle it because I KNOW it is going to mean two hours of screaming, kicking hell and I don't have the darn energy for it.
DO you think he has cottoned on to that?   I know M has cottoned onto the fact that I let things go when we are visiting people or out and about and she is totally upping the ante with me at the minute.  Like that thing with the sweets in my gran has been going on for weeks and she has been taking one even though i've been saying no and I haven't been following through as i am there to spend some time with gran and know ultimately if I tackle it I'll have to leave.   Same with asking for a treat in tesco.  We'd a huge drama in there the other week when I refused to buy her smarties or something but I knew I had to tackle it as it was something i never did but DH did and I jsut wasn't having that every flipping time we go to a shop.


Would saying to him as the nonsense starts stop it?  So when you see him losing it remind him that you do not want everyone getting upset and if he continues you will not be reading him stories before bed so to just stop the arguing as you aren't changing your mind.  Just try and cut it short?  Wasn't there something with him getting ready for bed before where he was upset about losing stories?   Would that work as an incentive to keep it together?

Its exhausting all the arguing isn't it?  M wanted to take about 50 books in the car the other day going to get DH from work and I said no and of course she said yes.  On it went and I said 'how about this, take 1 or 0, thats it' and she said 'no i'm taking 5'.  Me:  1 or 0 her: 5 and I said 'right we are just going, go to the door' and she said 'well how about this, I am NOT going at all' and sat down in the middle of her books.  Wee brute!  

{{{hugs}}}}  You must be wrecked too with being pregnant.  I remember just needing M to get to bed at that stage so I could relax.  
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Offline koe2moe

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 19:48:22 pm »
What at challenge!  I wonder if it might be to do with the baby?  When he says, no talking mommy (actually i get that all the time also), can you try saying "would you like a break or some space?  I will be here until you want to talk"  when he does something to get you to react, ask him, "do you want mommy to get mad (or to cry)?" 
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2011, 19:51:44 pm »
Quote from: anna* on July 16, 2011, 19:44:11 pm
When I try to name his feelings, or talk to him at all he just covers his face and makes this really annoying high pitched squeal to block me out. Or yells at me to 'Don't talk mummy'. or "don't say that'. (even if I'm just saying something like 'Wow, I can see you feel so cross with mum about [whatever]).
M does this and its so frustrating.  There I am trying to validate her feelings and she gets even more annoyed!  I think its because they know its not going to change anything and they don't want us saying that as they know its followed by 'but you still can't have/do x'. 

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Offline deb

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 20:01:35 pm »
I wasn't allowed to name J's feelings either. I settled on "not happy." It was accurate without upsetting her by my being presumptuous in her eyes.

Usually once the tantrum monster was out the door here, it had to burn itself out. If we couldn't forestall it, that was it, game over. And then we picked up the pieces afterward or the next day and moved on.

I also started one on more than one occasion when I was PMSing and I could tell J was going to throw a fit if (when ::)) I gave her an answer she wouldn't like, so when she asked the question once more or gave me the "I'm not going to do that/eat that" one more time, I actually got up, told her, "OK, then, but I'm not sticking around to listen to you scream at me because I don't like it," and left the room. I actually have locked myself in MY room on more than one occasion. :P (And it was worse when I was PG. :-\)

But we spent a lot of time on tenterhooks, Josie and I, when she was 3YO.....  :'(
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Offline koe2moe

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2011, 20:10:56 pm »
Uh oh i guess I should be prepared for the 3YO phase?  :(
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lilac83

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2011, 23:13:03 pm »
If he's not liking the validation, what about just describing what you see? For example, I see that I said no to X and it looks like X is very important to you right now." If he still covers his face or tells you to be quiet then tell him you are there for him if he needs you and sit nearby so he can see you. I can't do something nearby though, or DD feels like I"m ignoring her and she just gets angrier. I have to just sit and watch her from the corner of my eye. Sometimes this isn't even about you saying no, it's a built up frustration that needs to be released. When DD gets like that, normally she wants a hug and I don't have to say anything, I just hold her and let her cry and cry. When she's done, she's like a whole new kid. If she didn't want a hug, I would sit nearby until she showed signs of being ready for a hug. Maybe Stan would never want a hug though, maybe being able to vent his frustration with you nearby would be enough?
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Offline nona

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2011, 00:34:19 am »
have no idea if he would go for this but for dinner & dessert issues ( i realize this is not the big issue)

can you just stop offering dessert all together? Starting on X, you no longer serve dessert after dinner???


((Hugs))
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2011, 21:25:33 pm »
Yesterday's veggie curry which was the bone of contention made a reappearance for lunch today. Not without conflict but he ate it and agreed he liked it. We baked this morning (was pouring with rain all morning), banana bread. Had a small slice mid afternoon. At supper time, he asked about having more and I took the opportunity for a serious talk about supper time - that he was not going to have more now because then he wouldn't have room for supper. And that if there was ANY fuss about supper, he would go straight upstairs and get himself ready for bed. Stan agreed and even added 'Perhaps we can have a nice bedtime today too.'  ::)

Anyway, supper was tactically chosen for the path of least resistance (did still need a reminder about what the consequences were going to be for nonsense, but nothing serious) but gave us the chance to mention how much nicer it was to all eat together in a happy atmosphere, and bedtime was a positive joy compared to yesterday, seriously.

3.5 is just difficult. MOST days it is an absolute delight, but when it goes wrong I am at a complete loss. And the delight on the most days makes the bad days just all the more shocking and bewildering.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 21:58:55 pm by anna* »
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Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2011, 21:53:44 pm »
Quote from: anna* on July 17, 2011, 21:25:33 pm
And that if there was ANY fuss about supper, he would go straight upstairs and get himself ready for bed. Stan agreed and even added 'Perhaps we can have a nice bedtime today too.'

lol, what a kid! Even though you chose a supper that you knew would go over well, I think it was a great thing to have the chat about it beforehand. 
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Offline anna*

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2011, 21:56:56 pm »
Quote from: MasynandSpencer on July 17, 2011, 21:53:44 pm
Quote from: anna* on July 17, 2011, 21:25:33 pm
And that if there was ANY fuss about supper, he would go straight upstairs and get himself ready for bed. Stan agreed and even added 'Perhaps we can have a nice bedtime today too.'

lol, what a kid! 

I tell ya, it's a good thing he's so cute.
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Offline koe2moe

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2011, 22:09:43 pm »
Quote from: anna* on July 17, 2011, 21:56:56 pm
Quote from: MasynandSpencer on July 17, 2011, 21:53:44 pm
Quote from: anna* on July 17, 2011, 21:25:33 pm
And that if there was ANY fuss about supper, he would go straight upstairs and get himself ready for bed. Stan agreed and even added 'Perhaps we can have a nice bedtime today too.'

lol, what a kid! 

I tell ya, it's a good thing he's so cute.

He is very cute!!  Hehe
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: How do you DEAL with just won't eat supper
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2011, 22:19:23 pm »
Glad it went well!  he is too smart for his own good that one!!

I am also finding though that when things go bad there is nothing to be done but get through it and then do what you did and talk about it out of the moment and then again just before you are about to come to the situation again.  What I find positive about it is that although we have huge blow outs then and again, once we have an issue about it and address it, it generally doesn't happen again.  KWIM? So in your case we wouldn't have the dinner-dessert issue again.  I think thats the advantage with being 3...they can process quicker and remember how upset they were and work out quicker its not worth trying that one again.  So at least thats something eh?!
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