Selective eater +a very persistent toddler.How do you deal with it?

[Grants]

Hi Ladies,

My DS is 22 months old, spirited and extremely persistent. We never ever had a ‘fight’ over food with him. I have never forced him to eat anything.  I pick my battles and we are pretty relaxed with his choices of food as long as it is healthy ( we never offer anything unhealthy. He never has crisps and fizzy drinks, juice only on the odd occasion, sweets, cakes only on special occasions and birthdays). We used baby led weaning with him, so we have always allowed him to make a mess and eat with his hands. Now he is a very neat eater and eat pretty well with a fork and spoon.  

My main question is:  when do you start reinforcing ‘the going to bed hungry if he doesn’t eat what is offered for dinner’? I feel like he doesn’t grasp that concept yet? But its hard work as he has never eaten any cooked meals at home.

He eats very well on nursery days (2 days a week). He eats everything, including casseroles, lasagnes, pasta, tuna sandwiches etc… At home he won’t eat cooked food at all. On the odd occasion he will have plain pasta or pesto pasta. He won’t even eat omelette, something he used to love

At home he will eat every single fruit,cereals,raisins,breadsticks, cucumber, tomato, anything pickles(especially Gherkins ), olives, bread, oatcakes, rice cakes , cheese, yogurt, pizza and beans. But apart from that he won’t eat anything else when he is with us.

Is it a phase? Will it pass? I know spirited can be very sensitive to textures but how come he eats everything at nursery then? He pretty much knows that we will offer something else at home if he refuses the cooked meal (even if it’s a bit later after we have taken him out the highchair or table), but I really don’t want and think it’s not appropriate to fight over food. I don’t want him to have problems with food when he grows up, yk.Plus he is so persistent that he knows exactly what he wants to eat and there is no way I can convince him otherwise.  

I guess I’m looking for people who BTDT. Or some ideas , although we have tried pretty much everything. And at what age,you ladie,s started reinforcing’ the going to bed hungry’?

Thanks for reading
 

[Shiv52]

I didn't look at it as 'going to bed hungry rule, more so 'this is what's for dinner for our family' rule. We have done it from very early on and it's worked fine. If she had a particularly bad eating day I sometimes offered porridge or weetabix before bed but nothing else.

I worked on a lot of eating programmes and TBH the main issues come when LOs work out that they can refuse foods and get offered alternatives. It let's them realise food is something they can have control over and they will use that.

You could start offering a portion of cooked food along with some of the things he will eat so at least he will eat something. And then no alternatives. Then you can work up to using more of his preferred foods after he eats some cooked food. If he eats it readily at nursery then I think the issue is control and spiritedness as opposed to texture issues.

My DD is  very spirited and I knew if I started allowing her to refuse foods and get preferred foods instead that it would end up a nightmare. She gets choices for breakfast and lunch between a few things but dinner is what we are having. DD2 is 10 month and she now gets out dinner too.

[Grants]

Thanks Shiv

Yes, I kind of knew it was a control issue as he eats everything at nursery, although he has done the same thing there twice and in the end they had to offer him a sandwich instead  as he wouldn’t eat his lunch at all even though they offered it before nap and after nap.

This is the first time ever I have posted on this board as this eating issue never really bothered me much. I know he eats healthly. But he is getting a bit older now and I think it is not very nice/polite refusing food like this.

The main reasons we never really used the rule about eating what is on offer are:
1)   I honestly thought he was a bit too young to understand the rule ‘if you don’t eat now you will be hungry later’.

2)   The main reason: he is a terrible sleeper .NWs+EWs and short nights. I have tweaked all I could and nothing seems to change this. He also finds it very hard to switch off at BT. So I have always avoided the dinner battle as it’s so close to BT and I was never brave enough to antagonise him in the evening in case we have an even worse night plus I never wanted to add hunger to the equation of the bad night, iykwim?!  I would be wondering if he is he having this particular NW because he is hungry as he didn’t eat much at dinner??

I also don’t mind him choosing his breakfast but eating the same dinner and sometimes lunch with us would be nice.

So now that you confirmed that it is OK to use that rule at M’s age. I only need to figure out how to do it bearing in mind  concern number 2. Do you have any suggestions? I’m 100% sure I will be a chicken . lol I would  do anything for a good nights of sleep and I’m so scared this will make our nights even worse  

[Shiv52]

I understand your reason xx

I don't think he'll make the link to hunger at this age which is why if she refused dinner I would offer cereal at bedtime.  She had this some nights even when she had dinner so she didn't think it was an alternative.  What a lot of parents do is keep the meal for a while after and if they start asking for food you can reoffer their meal and reheat it.

I think at this age NWs are very rarely related to hunger and most often related to other things.  I know on teething days when M has eaten very little it doesn't affect her sleeping at all and nights where we had NWs she would have eaten fine.  KWIM?  But I understand the concern if your M isnt a great sleeper as it is. 

I would start gradually so it doesn't become a battle.  Offer him some of what you and DH are having ALONGSIDE some of what you would normally offer him as alternatives as he refuses dinner.   So initially you are just working on removing that 'refusal- get alternative' thing that he has going on!   Initally you can make him up a meal of mainly things he likes and just a little of what you are having.  Make sense?

I also think presentation helps.  So if we were having spaghetti bolognese, Maeve used to prefer the pasta beside the sauce and I made her pasta twirls and she liked to dip and she liked her grated cheese in a bowl rather than on top.  But still the same meal but more Maeve friendly IYKWIM.  Dips also help too here. 

Are there any cooked meals he particularly likes?

[Grants]

Offer him some of what you and DH are having ALONGSIDE some of what you would normally offer him as alternatives as he refuses dinner

We already do that but he *always* choose what he likes instead of the dinner.

So if we were having spaghetti bolognese, Maeve used to prefer the pasta beside the sauce and I made her pasta twirls and she liked to dip and she liked her grated cheese in a bowl rather than on top.

I like this one Shiv. We have done it in the past but he would only eat the pasta and leave the Bolognese sauce . Perhaps it is time to try it again? He will eat the grated cheese that’s for sure lol

 

Are there any cooked meals he particularly likes?

This is difficult as he is one of those kids who has to’ feel like eating certain foods’, iykwim?! He likes plain pasta, pesto pasta, pizza and steak pie, but if he doesn’t feel like eating these foods on the day I offer he won’t have them.  Do you know what I mean? For example, I know he likes steak pie but I have offered it, a few times in the past, on days he didn’t feel like eating it and he won’t even touch the stuff. Whereas on other days he will eat it straight away as to say “ Today I really feel like eating steak pie”. Go figure 

[koe2moe]

Hugs, grants!  I also was so worried about DS being full to bed because he would wake more otherwise!! 

What do you think is more important, that you all eat together? Or that  you eat the same thing together?  If you think the former is the issue right now, why not offer your dinner alongside with what he would eat so that he's sitting with you all to eat and no need to spend extra time for a snack later and perhaps that can give you more time for the wind down?  That way he also starts to get used to this dinner meal time together and no more snack afterwards.  Once off the table, no more food.  Perhaps this might help him understand later that when eating is over, no more.  To prepare him for that stage later. 

But if you think the latter is more important, then you might have a lot of hard work at this point since M seems to know exactly what he wants when.  It's a guessing game.  It is hard work, hugsss

[Grants]

We don't really mind about sitting together for dinner. He is too young atm for that .We don't do it everyday, especially when M is having an early BT. The sitting together for a meal is not yet a 'rule' in our house. It is more the fact that he refuses what we cook than anything else.

[Grants]

So I have decided to put Shiv’s plan into action at lunch time on days DS is at home with me (Mondays and Thursdays). I thought it would be better to start slowly at lunch as I dread the whole battle just before BT… Anyway, today I cooked some plain spaghetti (he used to eat it but doesn’t eat it anymore) and sprinkled some cheese (he loves cheese) on top to entice him. I also offered cucumber (which he loves) and some carrots (which he doesn’t eat). All in separate parts of the plate (he has these plates with divisions, which is similar to the ones they use at his nursery). Needless to say that he didn’t want to eat anything and kept on pointing and asking for his favourite cereal in the cupboard. I said a few times that the cereal is for mornings only. He insisted and I failed.  I just couldn’t bear another battle for food as I’m feeling ill today so I gave him the cereal. 
Last Thursday, the first day I tried the new plan, we had a massive battle over lunch*sign*. I gave him beans (which he loves!), with cheese (one of his favourite foods) and carrots ( which he doesn’t eat). He only ate the cheese and wanted more cheese and would not touch the beans and carrots. He didn’t give up and kept on asking /moaning for more cheese. I didn’t give in but I ended up losing my cool and taking him out of the highchair. I hate losing my cool like this.

 I don’t know if I can do this food challenge with a super persistent spirited. The food battle is my weak spot. I pick my battles but I never knew I would have to pick the food battle It is not like I have a choice on this. I have to persist with it.  I really hate this! This food refusal is bothering me so much. It doesn’t feel right the fact that he refuses what we cook for him. He is ‘too old’ for that. I know I have a huge battle ahead of me. He is sooooo persistent. I will need you to hold my hand.    

[Mom to M&M]

While my DS is not really spirited, he is a picky eater and rather persistent. We have had "some" success recently by using a combination of being very calm but a bit strict at the table (dinner is what it is) and using sleep talk for this issue. I'll PM you as well but wanted to post here too. I'd focus on trying to stay calm. In the above situation, I would have simply said something like "you finished your cheese, you need to have some beans or carrots before you can have any more cheese." If he kept asking/moaning, I would have repeated it one more time only, then said something like "if you are full you don't have to eat any more" and left it at that. With dinner, if my DS didn't eat much and still seems hungry I will wait at least 45 minutes or so (sometimes do a bath first even) and then offer something simple as a bedtime snack - oatmeal, toast, etc. And not a huge portion, just enough so he's not going to bed hungry.

<<<<HUGS>>>>

[Grants]

Thanks for posting Karen I have tried the above suggestions, staying very calm, but after a while I just lost it! I know I shouldn't have but I did. I wasn’t in a great mood either on that day so I shouldn’t have started something so difficult on a day like that.  Food is def my weak spot I'm quite firm with most of the stuff but when it comes to food and BT I’m a chicken.  And of course M can pick up on that and he takes advantage of it.

[Mom to M&M]

Well with all the sleep issues you've had/have, I don't blame you! But I haven't found a real correlation between not eating much at dinner and sleeping poorly here. And since we usually do dinner here around 5:30/5:45 there is plenty of time to offer a bedtime snack around 6:30/7 if needed before bed around 7:30/7:45...

That said, I'm expecting a poor dinner here tonight with lots of yelling on DS' part. Making fish fingers, roasted potatoes and corn on the cob. DS never eats fish fingers, sometimes has a few potatoes and plays with the corn only. Should be fun - NOT!

[Shiv52]

Hugs Hun x

I do think you are right in that you shouldn't tackle things until you are ready. Because it will cause more problems to attempt to set a rule and then backdown. If you want to go ahead then I do think you need to tell yourself you are going to have a few meals where he will not eat well while he works out that you are not a short order chef and aren't going to be running round providing other foods. KWIM?

I don't think not eating dinner at this stage will affect nights. I actually read that toddlers consume most of their calories in the first 2/3 of the day and dinner is not a big deal so not to worry if they don't eat much. That has also helped settle me into not providing alternatives.   

With the meal you were providing (beans and cheese) I think that was total control on M's part given that he eats beans readily. 

Maybe you should start with making him up a meal of foods he likes and working only on not providing alternatives. Least that way you know he likes what you are offering him so it's not a big deal? And then you can build in that he can have more of whatever when be eat some of something else.

Hugs xx

[skatty]

From about 14 months until well after 2 years Leorah ate tuna pasta nearly every night!! I think the combination of her spiritedness and not being that hungry meant that she wouldn't really eat but LOVED tuna pasta! I used to puree up different vegetables in the sauce and the pasta was wholegrain and because she went to bed so early we would eat later. I just didn't want the battle and as her diet was healthy I chose to let it be. As she got older she was much more open to eating everything we eat and she loves every vegetable you could think of (her favourite is brocolli) except potatoes and funnily enough she isn't that keen on pasta anymore  I remember her being suddenly fussy about a lot of food around 2 and someone pointed out to me that this is the age the tastebuds are at their sharpest so many toddlers prefer a plain diet. We also BLW so it was a shock for us too to have a dd that ate anything to a kid that was suddenly fussy. Do you think he may just not be that hungry for his evening meal?

[Grants]

Thanks for the posts Katt and Shiv it's good to hear BTDT from spirited kids parents

Thanks for the reassurance about the evenings Shiv. it helped a lot as I do wonder if he will be hungry during the night .

Katt, he is def not that hungry in the evenings but he will refuse what we cook at lunch too it's def a combination of spiritedness and knowing that I'm not willing to have a battle about food. DH is at home with us every Friday so I think I will try it again then when I have him here to back me up. M is just too persistent and knows exactly what he feels like eating at any particular occasion.  Argh! The funny thing is that I was exactly like that until I was about 8YO!  I just hope he won't take that long though. 

Katt, at what age would you say L stopped refusing food ? Like you said we do BLW with them and then they become selective eaters! How odd is that??

[speechie]

Hugs, Grants!

I have a persistent spirited child- but he's a good eater...(except for spicy hot foods).  I don't have too much advice about food preferences, but I was thinking about your post and just wanted to share what works well with my uberspirited boy.
With Nick it has been key from the start that he feels like he has some control about most things (not just foods). So once he was opening the fridge independently, I made sure that he had snack options at his finger tips. So, already prepped/washed bowls of fruits/veggies. I showed him where the hummus dips are, cheese sticks. The healthy options in the cabinets are at his level.
Plus, I've made a big deal about having him help me cook in the kitchen and praising his efforts- so, he usually eats with pride anything he's helped do.
I am aware this may not work for you, but if it has become a control issue, I thought that maybe giving him a measure of independence and choices you both like would help him eat well and take some of the pressure off for you. So, may start out to be more 'snacking', but if it is healthy snacking that could be very positive overall in expanding his food choices slowly.

FWIW, I give Nick a banana almost everynight at bedtime. He started complaining he was hungry as a stalling technique, so we've just made it part of our routine! That way I know he's full at bedtime...

HUGS to you!