Author Topic: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!  (Read 2309 times)

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Offline LettiesMum

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On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« on: July 20, 2011, 19:18:33 pm »
DS is 11.5wks old. His naps have always been all over the place because initially he struggled to get past the 10/20 min jolts (which is now resolved) and since a couple of weeks old he's always always struggled to get past the 45min mark...He's a big boy (15lb already  :o) and feeds 4hrly (sometimes longer) but there's no way he could manage the associated A times.

Previously he's been pretty good at actually going to sleep, it was just the keeping him asleep was the problem, but now that's starting to become more difficult. Similarly, he would always go down for the night pretty well and I wouldn't hear him all evening but now he's started waking up 45mins after he falls asleep and sometimes again 45mins later so this is a seriously OT little boy I have on my hands now. He's also started having frequent NWs and EW's. Sigh.

When possible I've been AP'ing the second part of his nap if I can't sssh pat him back to sleep to try and get him to at least sleep. Going for a walk is a no-no as he wakes up after 45mins in the pram or car and won't go back for ages.

This was now today went:

1.30am - Bottle
5.30am-6.30am - multiple dummy plugs as clearly not ready to get up
7.10 - up and bottle
8.10 - took him up for nap
8.20ish to 10 - Sleep although he woke after 45 mins I tried to get him back to sleep and he would drop off then wake up a few mins later so 10 was when I gave up trying any longer)

10.40 - Bottle (he was falling asleep during this so...)
10.50 - 11.30ish - Sleep
12.30-1.10 - Sleep
2.15-2.45 - Sleep  (not sure why it was so short but he woke up screaming)

2.45 - Bottle
Tried to put down for nap but kept falling asleep then waking up after 10/15mins then I'd have to resettle and eventually I gave up at 3.30 because my mum turned up.
She AP'd a nap for me from 4.30-5.30 but he kept stirring and struggling etc.

I took him up to bed at 6.15, he was asleep after a lot of crying at 6.45 and then he woke at 7.30 and has been shuffling about up there ever since.

Any ideas? My DD was a terrible sleeper before I used BW and even then she still was a complete dummy addict and I can see DS going the same way, he's much more grumpy, he doesn't smile as much as before, he whines and cries whereas we would barely hear him. Obviously his nights are becoming majorly disturbed because he's having problems switching off and I can't remember a time when he woke up and was happy rather than waking up early and very tired.

He did get diagnosed with mild reflux which is well controlled with meds and his cot is raised etc, he's also got lactose intolerence but we aren't seeing about that until next week but his only symptom is really ick nappies now, the wind/griping pains he had with it initially have calmed down (probably as he is getting nearer to the magic 12 weeks) and he doesn't seem to be in any kind of discomfort with his tummy now.

I desperately need to break this awful cycle that we are in before it spirals out of control like it did with DD, who is now suffering from me being constantly up and down the stairs trying to settle her brother or asking her to keep the noise down because I'm desperately trying to AP the second half of his nap...her behaviour is getting increasingly worse due to boredom/lack of attention I think :'(

Any advice would be much appreciated, the 45min napping is killing me slowly...

Nic x
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 19:27:47 pm by LettiesMum »
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline ~Karen~

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2011, 12:07:22 pm »
Bumping for you.  If you don't get a response I'll come back and have a proper look later.  Have a 3.5 year old demanding attention  ;)

Offline bessie26

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2011, 13:07:59 pm »
Oh *letties* I feel for you, I am in an almost identical situation with DD2 (all except for the lactose intolerance) I feel like I need to spend a whole day APing just so she can catch up on some sleep, but I can imagine what the next day would be like if I did that!

Fx someone will be along with some words of advice soon.

Offline LettiesMum

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2011, 13:29:00 pm »
Bumping for you.  If you don't get a response I'll come back and have a proper look later.  Have a 3.5 year old demanding attention  ;)

You and me both...it doesn't help that mine is used to FT nursery but now I'm on Mat leave only goes to playgroup 3 mornings a week which means she bored and troublemaking for attention.

To throw something else in to the mix, he's now started waking at 30 mins randomly. Give me strength. I've been resorting to bringing him downstairs (if I can't get him to go back to sleep upstairs) and then putting him on the sofa where he will sleep for ages somtimes, so at least it leaves me free to do stuff with DD without constantly legging it upstairs for something or another.

How I am not a size 6, I don't know. I must be running miles everyday!
x
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline bessie26

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2011, 14:16:08 pm »
I know why I'm not a size 6, it's the bar of chocolate I eat almost every time I have the two of them by myself!  DD1 is out at childcare 3 days of the week, theoretically giving DD2 & I those days to practice napping, but it doesn't seem to be working.

I have sticker books in DD2s room for DD1 to play with while I'm trying to get DD2 to sleep. This morning while I was trying to pat-shh in the cot DD1 was shouting "CLOSE YOUR EYES, GO TO SLEEP" at DD2 while putting stickers on my bum.

She's just woken up again <sigh>

Offline LettiesMum

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 15:11:30 pm »
Ha ha, that's what my DD will do. Or scream 'Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam come down here...NOWWWW!!!' and I race downstairs only for her to announce that Little Einsteins has started :|

I know why I'm not a size 6 too, it's the biscuits I scoff in the middle of the night waiting for his botlte to warm up, the ones I eat when I get downstairs after ssh and patting til I've lost the will to live.

He's asleep next to me on the sofa after spending just 30 mins in his cot...some sleep is better than no sleep eh?
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline bessie26

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 20:36:09 pm »
Have you read this?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=106837.0
Not sure if it's your issue, but might give you hope?! I changed my pat to be on her bum & it worked! (she's been asleep 2hrs & I still have my fingers crossed!)

You mentioned your DSs bed was propped up for his reflux? How do you stop him sliding down the bed? DD2 doesn't have actual reflux but is sometimes troubled by large possets (over-eating?!) so I also have her bed at an angle & wondered if you had a cunning way of making him stay still?! (gaffer tape?!)

Offline LettiesMum

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 07:06:43 am »
Ha ha, I've been tempted before now.

I use a side sleeper with him as he won't settle on his back and that stops him slipping down the bed.

He had a monster 3.5hr sleep on the sofa yesterday afternoon and I had to wake him just before 6pm because I wanted to get on with BBB...so he clearly needed to catch up as he'd had a 2hr nap earlier too.

He's actually slept better at night than he has in ages, only waking at 4.30 for a feed and he's still there now at almost 8am. No dummy plugs or anything so hoping that he's starting to catch up so he's not stupidly ot all the time
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline bessie26

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2011, 14:33:11 pm »
Thought I would bump this for you as you hadn't had any "proper" replies!

Offline ~Karen~

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 19:46:37 pm »
Hey, how you getting on?  Think we're finally on the back burner of the chicken pox so hopefully things will be getting back to normal!

Can you post your last day or two of EASY and I'll have a look for you.   :-*

Offline LettiesMum

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 12:49:23 pm »
Thanks Karen...glad you're over the pox finally!

The last 2 days have been a mixed bag, I simply cannot get him to get past 45mins in his cot - if I pick him up and bring him downstairs then he's usually asleep by the time I hit the bottom step...So he's clearly tired because he then will sleep for about 2hrs (I've had to wake him at around 3hrs a few times).

I won't post today's EASY because we had an appt with the hospital which fell in the middle of when he was sleeping - grrr!

Yesterday he woke at 8am (woooo!)

E - 8.30 (he'd woken at 4.30 for a feed so wasn't ready until then)
S - 9.10 - 11.15 (his first A time is usually shorter or it may not be because I may not always here him first wake)
He woke at just before 10am despite me trying W2S at the 35min mark. I couldn't get him back to sleep upstairs so put him on the sofa so I could get on with things.

S/A - Went out in the car so had a little doze for 10 mins as he wasn't ready to wake up at 11.15 but I had to so I could go out.
E - 12.40
S - 1- 1.45

S - 3.15 - 5.45 (first 45mins upstairs, the rest on sofa)
BT - 7pm, woke at 7.45 crying and took until 8.30 to settle with us having to run up and down the stairs to replug his dummy

NF - 4.30am

He didn't have a feed from 12.40 until 6pm but even then he only took 3oz instead of his usual 7oz so obviously wasn't hungry but took the other 4oz just before bed.

It's probably worth me mentioning that he is absolutely determined to suck his thumb but it's hit and miss whether he gets it and it actually keeps him awak when he is sucking it because it keeps bobbing in and out. He's swaddled tightly to try and stop him from keeping himself awake but he usually gets mad until we free one arm.

I've been working on his first nap with W2S but I've yet to have any joy in getting it to work and he always fully wakes up....I go in at 35mins (I've tried 40 mins, that didn't work either) and get him to stir slightly and replug his dummy but he still wakes at 45mins even if I sssh pat him from the 35min mark until he wakes. It's then very hit and miss whether I can get him to go back to sleep in his cot, despite him clearly being tired, he whines and buries his head in his muslin/lovey.

Any ideas? I know he's getting sleep but it's broken and having most of it on the sofa isn't ideal for obvious reasons. Since I have been AP'ing the end part of his end he's not having any NWs and is just waking for his feed and the odd dummy replug here and there.

Nic x
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline ~Karen~

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 19:56:05 pm »
You may need to do some A time tweaking as 45 min naps can mean UT.  His first A could be a bit too short and his last looks a bit too long.  Have a look at some sample routines around his age just to give you a guide of what you may be aiming for.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164029.0

I think you're most likely in a OT/UT cycle and need to try and get him out of it before he starts napping well in his cot.  If he falls asleep while you're carrying him downstairs, what happens if you go back up and put him back in his cot?  Will he stay asleep or wake up again?  It is good that he'll continue his naps on the sofa like that though.  At least he's taking long naps that way.  The fact that he's getting the sleep is the most important thing and the extending it will come with time. 

Offline LettiesMum

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2011, 22:05:33 pm »
Hi Karen

Today was awful but he's been put on a LF milk so putting it down to that otherwise I'll cry if everyday is as bad as today.

I extended his A time this morning (when the milk shouldn't have even caused him any bother) to 1hr20 and i tried w2s at 35mins but even though he didn't wake when I did it, he woke a few mins later so did my usual but he was really unsettled so I think it was his new milk.

Ive tried putting him back in his cot and he generally wakes but tbh, by the time I've settled him again its hardly worth me putting him upstairs for 20 odd mins as he won't sleep as long. We did manage to get him to go back to sleep in.his.cot without bringing him downstais on Sunday and he slept for 2hrs before we had to go out and he didn't wake when we put him in his car seat.

Having watched him it seems that he struggles to go off.into a deep sleep after the end of the first cycle, even though he really wants to and starts burying his head in his mattress. If I leave him to his own devices he tries to self.settle and dozes off and on but can't quite get himself off...its frustrating for both of us! Especially because w2s worked so well with DD!

X
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline LettiesMum

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2011, 11:49:10 am »
Grrr, he was so unsettled all night, he was up every hour for a dummy replug but I don't think that's the issue as much as that he was so OT that he struggled to go off.

We've definitely entered the dreaded OT cycle because my mum's had him this morning and he's not slept for more than an hour over 2 naps but he definitely needs to sleep so I am going to try and AP a monster nap later to try and get him to catch up because I can't do another night like last night.

I'm feeling really lost with how to get him to nap better and now I'm scared the night time has gone to pot because of 1 stupidly OT day. Please say it ain't so?! Ha!
Scarlett born 27/11/07
8lb 0.5oz

Sonny born 02/05/11
8lb 0.5oz also!

Offline bessie26

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Re: On a downward nap spiral - make it stop!!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2011, 12:00:53 pm »
<hugs> I'm sure the monster AP nap this arvo will help... I hope so coz i'm in exactly the same boat with DD2! My mum is coming round later & she will be more than happy to cuddle her to sleep for a couple of hours!