Author Topic: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 9942 times)

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Offline mmom

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 17:22:30 pm »
(((HUGS))) Don't beat yourself up.  Reflux changes everything.  I have 2 refluxers and used a lot of AP too.  But I was able to make a lot of progress when they were healthy.

Are you sure the reflux is controlled?  That is a long NW and seems like pain or discomfort to me.  Also, that first NW looks OT.  Wakings so close to bedtime tend to be OT.  Do you think your LO is OT?

Do you think you can work on offering 3 bottles during the day?  Since those middle 2 are so small, I would think that you can combine them to 1.  Here are some sample routines for you.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164031.0

How are solids going?

It will take time, but you will get there.  Work on separating bottles from sleep and trying to achieve independent sleep during the day at least.
Kara


Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2011, 18:38:54 pm »
It was a long NW for DS, but I don't think it was reflux, because it was different than when he was a little bub and was truly in discomfort.  The cry is different and his behavior was different.  He's on 7.5 mg of prevacid.  A while back we did go to the Dr. to see if the dose should be increased because he does a fair amount of coughing, but the DR. refused to increase the dose and prescribed and inhaler for the coughing, which we chose not to use.  The coughing doesn't seem to bother him....he coughs throught hte night sometimes and doesn't wake.  He did have a few toots, which led me to believe that his tummy might have been bothering him (gas) a little, but in general, my gut was telling me that it was because he wanted to fall asleep in my arms with a bottle in his mouth.  He would settle, and then I would put him down and he would cry hard, then when I picked up again, he would settle (lay his head on my shoulder and relax his body) and then when I put him down he would cry hard again.  It's possible that there are teeth at play here, but he isn't acting like he's teething during the day and once again, I really believe it's a falling to sleep by himself issue.  I put him down for his nap this morning without giving him a bottle and put him in his crib drowsy but awake and there was minimal fuss......I then had to wake him up from his nap after 1.5 hrs (I let him have a tiny bit extra because of last night).  It always seems as though he does well when the way he is put down encourages independant sleep, kwim???  The way the sleep starts is the way it continues.

OT could be a factor......I don't really know how to judge if it is.  DS doesn't really give me any cues, except when he is waaay beyond OT, he gets very silly and wired.  Yesterday was all 3.5 hr A times and his daytime sleep was approx 2 hrs.  His nighttime sleep hasn't gotten any better since his daytime sleep went from approx 3 hrs to 2 hrs so I was thinking of letting his am nap extend to be 1 hr, then his pm nap would be 1.5 hrs, thus giving him 2.5 hrs daytime sleep.  He generally wakes at 7:30 am and goes to bed at 7:45-8:15 pm, so he has a 12.25-12.75 hr day giving him somewhere around 13-14 hrs of total sleep.

So, after last night's wakings I woke up (if you can call it that since I didn't really sleep.... ???) with a new resolve and want to do pu/pd with LO to teach him independant sleep.  DS is going to go to my mom's tonight so that DH and I can get organized to start tomorrow night and so that we can have a full night's sleep before embarking.  I have a bunch of questions before starting though.  I reread the sleep interview, the chapter on PU/PD in BWSAYP and also read a bunch of the FAQ threads but have some questions:

1. after doing his BT routine, I will put him into his crib and I am fairly certain that he will sit up immediately.  At that point, I know I am supposed to lower him down, say my key phrase and then walk towards the door (but not leave).  DS will most likely then wriggle around and flip himself over on his back, hitting his head on the side of the crib in the process and will then cry even harder.  What do I do at that point?  He is not up, so doesn't need p/d and I'm not really sure if I should do p/u, or try to flip him over - usually when I do that, he resists against me.  Can't rub his back since he's on it and he doesn't respond to rubbing his belly (he sleeps on his tummy now).
2.  for the first few nights, I am supposed to stay in the room until he is fully asleep, then after a few nights I would do wi/wo..right?
3. For the past few days with his naps,  I have found that when I put him in his crib and immediately rub his back and sing him "twinkle twinkle little star" he settles and then falls asleep pretty easily and quickly..............problem is, I don't really know at what point he falls asleep, I could be rubbing him until he is sleeping, which I know will just turn into another prop.  Should I try to do this, or does it work against pu/pd?
4.  Do you think I need to try more tweaking with the routine before I do pu/pd?  My instincts tell me that giving him back the extra 15 mins for his am nap is probably sufficient as long as I combine that with paying close attention to the last A time being 3.5 and not a minute longer.........but I was wondering what you think.
5. For NW, I go to him as soon as I hear him cry, and he is almost always sitting up, so I p/d and then try to soothe in the crib? and repeat the process the same as I did for BT?  No bottle at any cost, right?
6.  What happens if he cries for 3 hours.........???

In your experience, how long did pu/pd take?  Any other words of wisdom?

If I do this, it should solve the feed to sleep problem and the falling asleep on us, right? (assuming there is no other reason that he's waking or resisting bedtime) so I won't have to do any other weaning, etc.  He should then be on the right # of bottles for his age because he won't need them to sleep anymore.  He does well with solids.  Had a bit of a time with him gagging for the longest while, but now he is eating all sorts of finger foods and I am fairly certain that he is getting enough to eat.  For breakfast he usually has oatmeal and fruit.  For lunch he usually has some sort of homemade casserole, pasta, veggies, meat.  He has yogurt for a snack sometime through the afternoon, has some of whatever we have for dinner (potatoes, veggies and usually a fruit) and then sometime throughout the day he usually has a biscuit or two.



Offline mmom

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2011, 00:07:14 am »
I have been hesitating to respond, because reading your post makes me think there is some sort of discomfort and I don't want to advise you to do PD if that is the case.  The coughing you describe reminds me of my LO and it was like that until the reflux was controlled.  Why won't your ped try 15 mg of Prevacid?  Have you tried to rule out dietary issues, such as dairy and soy?

Kara


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2011, 01:04:02 am »
Just wanting to say that I also think there could be discomfort here. Long NW like this are almost always pain...and in our case the settling with the bottle/breat could be comfort/relief from the pain. If you think this is not teeth, or a reflux flare it could well be a virus. Have you tried medicating (pain relief) during the long NW to see if this makes a difference?

It does seem you are on a relatively low dose of prevacid. As Kara mentions 15mg is an average dose and worth discussing with your Dr.

At this age Los are often back to being horizontal a bit more (crawling), and eating a wide variety of foods. Sometimes this is enough to cause little reflux flares. Have you introduced any new solids to your LOs diet recently?

I would be cautious with doing PU/PD until you are certain there is no discomfort, it can aggravate reflux, and be unsettling for a baby who is already in pain. It is a hard age hun, hang in there :-*
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2011, 13:17:22 pm »
I think you are both right.  BT was fine, he was OT so it took awhile (almost an hour) but I ended up getting him in his crib awake and then settling him with touch and he fell asleep on his own.  He woke 2 hrs later (10:45 pm) and wouldn't stop crying even when I was holding him.  I gave him some ibuprofen and he settled and I put him back in his crib almost asleep.  He woke about 1/2 hr later and cried, but I stood next to his door for a few seconds and less than 30 seconds later he had settled himself.  He slept until 8:00 am this morning.  I think there must be teeth on the horizon.  His reflux does flare when he teethes, so I'm sure that will start happening soon.

How do I know if I should medicate?

So, he went without a feed last night, and I truly think he is capable, so I am not going to feed him through the night anymore.  Otherwise though, because of his discomfort I will offer the cuddles and singing as much as he needs but try to do a gradual weaning where I put him down more and more awake.....does that sound reasonable?

I have no idea why Dr. won't just increase his prevacid dose.  It has been a battle since day 1 to get DS what he needs for reflux.  I couldn't get ANY meds until he was 6 months old, and even then we just happened to get a fill-in Dr instead of our usual Dr. and we got meds from her.  We went to Dr about a month ago and asked for more meds because DS's cough was bad and he said that there was no way he would increase the dose.  It's also a crappy system around here, because if you don't agree with what your Dr says......too bad.  There aren't enough Dr's around here, and you're stuck with the one you have and can't go to Ped unless you are referred by your regular Dr.  I very much like our Dr. in all other circumstances, but he doesn't have any experience with reflux in babies and I believe he is just timid of doing anything.....sort of old school and "tough it out".

So, any ideas on what I can do to help DS along with teething and reflux without more meds?  Part of what we are doing is moving the bottle away from bedtime and naptime, so I know that should help some.  I gave him some camilia this morning because he was really fussy and it's supposed to help with teething.

Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2011, 13:28:08 pm »
Oh, also....

Re: food intolerances, I haven't done anything to see if he could have a milk or soy intolerance.  His poos are pretty normal, although he tends to be on the constipated side (and has a real struggle to get poos out alot of the time) and he has never had a rash, etc.  I read the post "does my LO have a food intolerance" and other than the fussiness and NW, Harrison doesn't seem to have any other symptoms.  Could be have an intolerance even though his poos are normal and hasn't had a rash?  He was on a lactose free formula, at one point Dr told me he was likely lactose intolerant so we switched formulas.  I have slowly been mixing regular formula with the lactose free and he has been fine.  He eats yogurt and cheese also.  Now, having said all this, there is a family history of food intolerance.  DH and his father and brother are lactose intolerant.  MIL just discovered she has milk protein intolerance at the age of almost 60.  She developed a rash a few months ago and started to get alot of GI issues and she cut out all dairy and she is fine now.


Offline mmom

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2011, 13:57:41 pm »
Our only symptoms were coughing, congestion, and irritability during sleep times.  You have all of those right?

The only way you would know would be to switch to a formula that doesn't have milk or soy proteins and give it a few weeks.  Often symptoms improve without meds.
Kara


Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2011, 14:11:33 pm »
Yah, we have those symptoms for sure.  Would I start the trial now, or wait to see if there are changes when teething/reflux flare calm down......

It all feels like a guessing game...........whew.  I have a friend whose little guy had reflux and MPI and he was on alimentum formula until about a year, when he could have diary again.  I think she had to have a prescription to get the formula.

Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2011, 14:15:22 pm »
Would I try soy formula first?

Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2011, 14:24:46 pm »
I see that I can order nutramigen online............it won't hurt to try it.....I think I will order...

Offline mmom

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2011, 17:07:48 pm »
I used allimentum with both kids.  I had a prescription, but you don't need one. It just helped because it is so costly.

LOs tend not to like the HAFs.  So you might have to ease into giving it by combining the formulas initially.  I actually got lucky and my kids went with the switch pretty easy.
Kara


Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2011, 23:42:22 pm »
OK, so I ordered nutramigen today.  Will start to wean the dairy in his diet in prep for when the nutramigen comes.  Do I need to stop all dairy and then reintroduce slowly?  Some LO's with MPI can handle some stuff like margarine, etc. right?

So sorry that I am all over the place with this.  I was certain that I was going to get fully into pu/pd and he had a bad night the night when you and Zacs mum posted and you were right (experience........) that there is discomfort.  I soooo didn't see it.  Today I got a good look in his mouth and could see some white where the two (upper) front teeth will come in.  I couldn't get him to nap this afternoon, he was really uncomfortable, so I did medicate again tonight at BT and he went down like a charm because he was so tired and was finally feeling comfortable.  He spit up again today.....the sure sign for him that reflux is flaring.

OK, so I would like to make a plan and stick to it.  Not sure if I'm on the right track.  Here is what I have:

-would like to trial dairy-free to rule out MPI
          and going to wean the dairy in his diet and try nutramigen
-would like to continue to not do night feeds
          (not sure if I should while he is teething or just keep the momentum of offering other comfort)
-would like to continue to move the bedtime feed further back in the routine
          this is proving really difficult.....he fights sleep really bad and we have relied heavily on the bottle to make him drowsy...any other ideas?
-would like to establish an alternative comfort (other than bottle)
          right now and using hand on the back + singing/key phrase......seems to work ok sometimes, will keep it up

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2011, 00:37:00 am »
-would like to continue to not do night feeds
          (not sure if I should while he is teething or just keep the momentum of offering other comfort)
FOr us the only comfort at night from teething was to BF. If you think this is what he needs to get comfortable when teething I would offer it, but that is just me. You can wean the feeds when the tooth is through.

Note that when babies are teething they often need more sleep so if you think he is tired earlier he probably is and needs that early BT.

Personally I would wait till those teeth are in to do sleep training as such, when a baby is in discomfort it is hard to try to teach them independent sleep :-* Hope those teeth come in quick
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline sbalcome1980

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2011, 01:29:37 am »
My poor monkey :(  He is having a hard night, I can hear the reflux in his throat and he's already woken twice for comfort.  I will definately do as much as is necessary to make him comfortable.  Sleep training can wait.

Thanks for the tip on extra sleep.  It did seem like he was OT all of a sudden today, but I wasn't expecting it when it happened (usually he can last 3.5 hrs) so it crept up on me, but I will definately watch for it tomorrow.

Not sure what to do about the reflux flare.  I know that it should get better after the teeth (I can see 2 coming in) but I have always had this nagging voice wondering if we've done everything we can.........ie: if a larger dose of prevacid would give more relief.  I put that out of my mind because he generally does so well and because the Dr. flat out refused.  I'm not sure if I should make a Dr appt or not.  He said in no uncertain terms that he would not increase the dose.  I wonder if he would consider increasing the dose, or even adding some zantac or something just for the periods when DS is teething.  It's really frustrating fighting against the expert to get relief for my babe.  I know I should trust my gut, but I always just end up feeling clueless and confused because the Dr., the public health nurse, in laws etc. all have a way of making me question myself. 

I fought for about 4.5 months with different health care ppl insisting that DS had reflux and was told "no" so many times that I just backed down and honestly started to think that I was just a hysterical first time mom.....until I posted looking for help with sleep issues and instantly the ladies recognised it as reflux and gave me the push I needed to get back out there and advocate and a month and a bit later we finally got meds and relief.

Offline mmom

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Re: Back at work, NW in 9.5 mo are proving to be too much for me!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2011, 10:44:32 am »
(((HUGs))) I have found that we really need to advocate (aka fight) for our LOs when it comes to reflux.  I was fortunate the 2nd time around (if you can call it that) when the doc knew I had been there and just listened to me when I had concerns.  But the 1st time, I fought for 10 months straight until we got a GI referral.  My long winded point is, that you may just have to be that pest of a mom and call the doc to insist on either more Prevacid or Zantac.  Plenty of LOs are on a full 15 mg.  If he won't budge, insist on a GI (or ped) referral.  You are the one up all night with your LO and I would remind your doc of that.
Kara