11 months old Help with routine please!!!

[Vetochka]

My 11 months old son started to refuse his second nap... he is getting really tired later on and i dont know what to do and when to put him down for his second nap! our routine looks like this so far:

7 am - Wake and bottle 8 oz
8 am - Breakfast
10 am -Morning nap (1.5-2 hours most of the time)
12 pm-wake up and play
12:30- Lunch
3 pm - Bottle 8oz
3:30 - used to be second nap (but now he is not sleepy by this time, so he did take this nap a few times later - around 4 or 4;30pm, but he hates when i wake him up after only 30-45 min and if falls asleep this late he needs at least 1.5 hour of sleep which brings us very close to bedtime and we have to move it an hour later)
6 pm - dinner
7:30 - bath
7:45-8pm - bottle 8 oz, story and bed

I tried to limit his first nap to 45 min or 1 hour in order to move second nap earlier but he hates when i wake him up!!! he looks miserable and i can see he likes that nap and when i do wake him up he cries and cries and cries...
Please help me! any ideas are welcome!!!
Thank u!

[Bex09]

Hi sounds like you are in the 2:1 transition, so your LO is starting to head towards taking only one nap a day. It can be a long process though and you will need to cap one of his naps first until he can handle a longer A time.

Have you read this? ... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0

It has great advice about how to tackle the transition and about whether to do long am/short pm or vice versa. What do you think?

[Vetochka]

I read that post and many others and I think every book out there I forgot to mention that I moved his naps to the crib about 3 weeks ago, he used to nap in a stroll before... Night time sleep is good since he was7 months old... He goes down for his morning nap pretty easy and stays asleep most of the time for 1,5-2h without my help.. Second nap always was difficult... Most of the time he needs my help to fall asleep and to stay asleep. If I let him sleep only 30 min he wakes up not happy! I can see he wants more and will sleep more in my arms... Since I don't wanna do this I am trying to settle him in a crib and that works sometimes... I tried to cut down his first nap like a lot of books suggest but he hates when I wake him up!!! He needs it longer and if he doesn't get it he is upset for hours after all... And second nap is a battle! Today I tried twice!!! He can do very long activity time between naps (always could) so after 4 hours of activity I tried to put him down (at 4pm) hoping for a short nap at least... He was all over the crib! Didn't look sleepy at all and didn't wanna settle... Tried again at 5pm...same story!!! It's almost 6pm, he is crawling and running around pretty happy and doesn't look sleepy still!!! Should I do an early bed time??? Usually he goes to bed at 8pm and wakes up at 7am... Afraid of EW.. He never sleeps longer than 11hours at night! What should I do???

[Vetochka]

I feel like I have no options here I can't cut down his first nap in order to get a good second nap (or to get it at all) because he hates when I wake him up and upset for hours after that... And I would love to have a second short nap but he is refusing it at all!!! So afraid this situation gonna mess up night time sleep oh my!

[ZacsMumme]

What if you woke him from his AM nap at the 45 min mark, this way he has completed 1 sleep cycle and will be in light sleep not deep sleep which usually upsets them more. You could do it really gently by opening his door and making a bit of noise in the kitchen or something like that???

There is a support thread going for mums going through the 2-1 here. Lots of other mums in a similar boat may be able to give some good advice. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=213594.msg2266291#msg2266291

[Vetochka]

I probably should try to wake him up from his morning nap after 45 min... Really don't wanna do it because his second nap always was harder for him to take.. He needs my help to fall asleep and to stay asleep... Maybe it would chance if the first nap is short... Is there any other way??? What else can I change without waking him up from the morning nap??? What if I try to move very slow his first nap later and later? And let him sleep for as long as he wants... Can he handle just one nap at this stage and early bed time? He had only morning nap today (2 hours) refused second... Wasn't sleepy in the evening and could handle just fine..went to bed at 7:30 instead of 8:30pm.. Just hope he wouldn't get up earlie... Does anyone tried having just one nap at this stage???

[Bex09]

First of all don't panic! lol. There will be a way round this and it may take some tweaking but we will get you there. OK I think he sounds very much like my DD, she HATED being woken so I had to do long am/short pm nap as the other way around never worked for us.

To start with I would say that if he can handle a 4h A time yes I would start to slowly push his morning nap later. He is only doing 3h A time here so he 'should' be able to handle more without too many problems. Maybe try just 10 or 15 mins later for a few days and then push it out 10 or 15 mins again. Let him sleep as long as he wants for this nap. If he takes a good long 2.5 - 3h nap you may be able to get away with an early BT and just one nap. But you will most probably find that he will need a short CN later in the day. Once my DD started refusing this I always had to AP it in the stroller or the car. I used to find that she was ok if she woke from these situations and wasn't as cranky. I used to plan to be coming home from our outings around 4pm (or whenever her CN was due) and she would just take 20-30 mins sleep in the car or we would go out for a walk.

So your day might go something like...

7am wake
A time - 3h 15
10.15 - 12.15 nap (2h at least, we hope!)
A time - 3h 45
4.00 CN (30 mins)
A time - 2.5h
7.00pm Bedtime

Obviously depending on your LO you may need to push the CN and BT earlier/later. I would then gradually keep pushing that first A time longer if you can. How does that sound?

[Vetochka]

Thank you so much for your advice!!! I did start to panic that's a good plan you have! The only problem that happen today was EW.. He woke up at 6:15 ready to start his day... I was afraid of it because he went to bed early - I know him too well and knew it's gonna happen so he is asleep now for his first nap (at 10:00 as usual) and the only difference is his activity time was 3:45 because he woke up earlier than usuall))) will see how long he is going to sleep and if it's a good 2 h nap then I just really hope he will still take his second nap later on today! Yesterday he refused it at all! I should probably consider the stroller but it's kind of hot outside and so humid!!! Maybe a car ride... Because if he doesn't take his second nap that would leave me with early bedtime and early wake time in the morning again!!! Thanks a lot for your advice!!! I will let you know how he is today with that second nap!!! You gave me hope

[Vetochka]

Oh my! Morning nap was only 1h20min.. Woke up crying at 11:20am but got very happy as soon as our dog walked in I guess I talked too much about this nap being always long and easy!!! So what do I do now??? Do I still do short second nap or we need it longer because of the not completed first nap? What A time do we need now after 1h20min nap? I think he can do 3,5 h or even 4h... So should it be around 3-3:30pm??? The only think I am not sure about is how long should I let him sleep??? Do I wake him up from second nap or let him sleep for as long as he wants??? And that nap should be long but he wakes up after only 30min do I need to try to extend it??? Oh god! Help me get through this mess

[Bex09]

Hmmm that is a strange time to sleep for. Did he wake earlier and resettle at all? If he woke crying I would be tempted to say that he was OT due to the longer than normal A time. Although 1h 20 is not a bad sleep really. Does he always do 2h at this nap normally though or is it sometimes shorter?

I would say that he could probably manage at least 3.5h A time after that nap, but just watch him really closely for sleepy signs. I would probably let him sleep for at least an hour this afternoon, but really it depends on how late he takes this nap. You might need to wake him earlier to preserve a decent BT.

Just a few points about the 2:1 - for a while you can expect your day to be slightly longer than normal as you have to stretch the day to fit everything in. It all returns to normal when your LO is on one nap.  I notice that your LO is spirited, I could have guessed! They are 'usually' known for being able to do longer than average A times so it might be that a longer A time is in order. Also when I was going through the 2:1 and I posted on the spirited thread it seems that a lot of spiriteds need to do long am/short pm due to their absolute hatred of being woken up! So I really think this is the way to go for your LO. 

[Vetochka]

He woke up after 30 min during his first nap but resettle vert fast on his own... I forgot to mention that it was always difficult for him to get through that 30min mark! Since he was 3 months old... That's why he used to nap in a stroller... Rocking helped him to sleep longer. 3weeks ago we moved naps to the crib and first few days were very difficult, he was waking up after 30min crying and it took a long time to resettle him... But recently his first nap got much better, he still wakes up a little after 30min but can continue his nap on his own. So most of the time this nap is 2h, sometimes 1h30min..
So today after 3,5 h I tried to put him for his second nap... He was hugging his doggie in the crib for 10min then got up and started to cry (that's what happens most of the time with second nap) I tried to calm him down in a crib and it didn't go well, he just got more upset... I had nothing left but to pick him up and to calm him down in my arms... After 5min walking around his room and singing he put his head on my shoulder and started to fall asleep. Then I put him down in a crib, stayed with him for a little bit patting and shushing and he was out so it became 4h of A time between naps... Now I can guarantee he'll be up in 30min crying! And the only way to get him back to sleep would be rocking in my arms!

I did notice that the day is getting longer, you are so right about that!!! By the way when did your LO moved to only one nap a day? And what's your routine looks like today?
And of course while I was writing this he was up exactly after 30min...crying... I couldn't resettle him in a crib and has to pick him up and walk around...he did fall asleep..
I guess I am dealing with 2 problems at the same time - 2:1 transition and addiction to being rocked for naps... I think I should really start doing this second nap in a stroller... It's better than getting him addicted to my arms!!!
And thank you again for your support and advices!!!

[Bex09]

Hmmm 30 minute WU usually mean OT, but not for all LOs. I think it is more likely, as you said, that you have become a prop and he needs you to rock him back to sleep. Do you rock him to sleep when he goes down to sleep or does he fall asleep independently? You are definitely dealing with two seperate problems really. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about APing the second nap, I always had to so that she would take it and I have heard many others say the same.

My DD moved to one nap at 12 months, but we started the transition with nap capping at 9 months! Her routine is now...

WU 7.30am
Nap 12.45-2.45
BT 8.00pm

If she wakes earlier or later I just shift her day accordingly. So she always does the same A time each day.

Looking back at your day because of the EW today you did a large jump in A time from 3h to nearly 4h, I think this sudden change is why your DS woke after 1h 20. Tomorrow I would try to just do maybe 3h 15 A time from when he wakes and let him sleep as long as he can, extend however you can if you need to. So if he wakes at 6.30 he will need to be asleep by 9.45am you can then do a CN at about 4pm. How does that sound? Shorter nights and longer days are unfortunately all part of the 2:1 transition. If you check out the link that Sara posted you will see the knid of problems that others are also having. HTHs.

[ZacsMumme]

Agree with Bex...this is a difficult time, we are in the 2-1 as well and have to go with the long AM as DS hates being woken from naps, and will refuse or take a rubbish PM nap even with a shorter AM

I think a bit of OT is inevitable during this time...but it can be managed. I do think Bex is right in that the jump in A was a big change for him - even if he is capable of doing it. We sometimes get stirring at 1hr15 but DS usually resettles himself in 10mins back to sleep. Have you tried leaving your LO to see if she resettles?

[Vetochka]

Thank your for your advices ladies!!!
Well my little boy got used to rocking since the day he was born (the biggest mistake of my life , and until he was 7 months old that was the only way he would fall asleep and stay asleep!!! Days and nights! He was up every 2 hours at night crying for me to rock him back to sleep... I got exhausted!!! So I started to teach him to fall asleep at night and to stay asleep.. And he got it within a week!!! Since that time we have no problems at night but naps were still in the stroller until 3 weeks ago... So now he is falling asleep on his own for the morning nap and can resettle himself as well (most of the time) But the second nap is harder for some reason! Half of the time he can fall asleep on his own but another half I have to rock him in my arms... I don't rush in when he wakes up, I do wait and hope he will go back to sleep, but he rearly does it with his second nap... I honestly have no clue why those two naps are so different for him!?
I will try to go with 3h15min first A time tomorrow morning and hope for the good and long morning nap...and then I will probably take him for a walk in a stroller for the catnap later on...
And again I can't thank you enough for your support!!! I have nobody to talk to about this...my whole family is in Russia (that's where I am from) and when I do ask them for advice they are so old school and all I hear is - just let your baby be, he can figure out when he want to sleep, if he is tired he'll fall asleep on the floor while playing!!! No mom, he would not! He would get overtired and difficult to calm down...
I hope for the best and thanks a lot again!!!

[ZacsMumme]

For some LOs the second nap will always be tough, we have the same problem Sounds like you have made amazing progress teaching your LO to sleep on his own!

I do ask them for advice they are so old school and all I hear is - just let your baby be, he can figure out when he want to sleep, if he is tired he'll fall asleep on the floor while playing!!! No mom, he would not! He would get overtired and difficult to calm down...

  ((HUGS)) I think some babies may..not a lot, but def not spirited or touchies lol.

YOu may not get a longer nap straight away but stick with it a few days then try another 5-10 mins longer if you think he needs it and you are still getting 45mins. Watch him closely too