We're in disaster mode...still really bad. :(

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

This may belong in Props in the end, I just wasn't sure.  Feel free to move.

Things have really fallen apart over here.  DH and I are both exhausted and short tempered and I'm just not sure what to do.  

Last week (5 or 6 days ago now) we weaned the swaddle cold turkey.  Grace was quite restless with involuntary movements and had a lot of trouble falling/staying asleep, as I expected.  But things got gradually better and by the 3rd swaddle-less day she took a 2h nap entirely on her own, went to bed well, etc.  I thought that would be that, more or less.  

Yesterday something really changed.  She is absolutely adamant that she will not sleep in her crib.  This is a baby who has been sleeping independently since 6 weeks old and until the swaddle wean I could plop her down mostly awake and off she'd go.  We're on a 4h EASY most day and prior to dumping the swaddle had been pretty much spot on with that routine.  Naps were shorter and we had more NWs without the swaddle but I thought she was catching up.  Definitely possible that OT is part of this, though.

Anyhow, so she'll fall asleep in our arms or in bed with me and she'll be dead asleep until we try to lay her in the crib and the second she hits the crib she is SCREAMING like someone is hurting her.    It's a different cry than her reflux cry and she's not pulling her legs up like she does, plus she's ok to sleep on her back in my arms or next to me in bed so I'm less inclined to think it's reflux related, although that's certainly possible as well.

This has been incredible frustrating for DH and for me.  I've been working nights for over a week now, so trying to sleep during the day and also help out around here and DH has been alone with the 2 of them a lot so neither of us is really feeling well.  He was super frustrated the other night and yelled and is now worried she hates the crib b/c she's scared of him/the crib.    I guess that's possible but I don't know what to do if that's the issue.  

So basically we're APOPing all sleeps for the past day or so.  She's in our arms or co-sleeping.  I feel like we've taken a million steps back and I'm just not sure how to get back to where we've been.  Bring the swaddle back?  But I'm not sure that's really going to help since she was doing well without it.  We're pretty much maxed out on reflux meds.  I know she's OT but I cannot get her to sleep!  She's had 2.5h of total sleep today where she was getting 4.5-5.  

I would post an EASY for the last few days but we've fallen off writing them down and to be honest I can't even keep track of what day it is or if it's day or night so I'm just not sure what's going on!  I've been trying to keep A's low (1h40 or so since she had been doing 2h, less if she does a 40 min nap, etc) but it'll take an hour or more to get her down and then she takes a short nap in our arms, etc.  We had multiple 1h NW last night (after I got into bed at 2am ) and finally I just nursed her and slept with her since I couldn't deal.

Sorry for all the rambling.  I've been desperately trying to make sense of this so I can fix it but I just can't seem to.    Any thoughts?  Thanks.

[deckchariot]

{{{{{{{hugs}}}}} Kate.  Have you tried having her "play" a bit in the crib?  I know they don't really do much at this age, but having her in the crib when it's not time for bed might help if it's some sort of crib anxiety.  I suspect something else is at work (discomfort of some kind?), but if you put her in when you're not trying to put her to sleep and she's fine, then maybe not.....

If you're certain it's not reflux, then I'd try using pat/shh to calm her in the crib.  By taking her out, you will definitely create a prop down the road.  She's  a bit young still for pu/pd, and it can be bad for refluxers, so I'd just try calming her in the crib.

has she usually been on time for growth spurts?  There's a pretty big developmental leap at 4 mos, and if she's hitting that early, that might be the issue.

[*Jo*]

Kate, just wondering why you weaned the swaddle?? ITs possible she still does need it, would you be willing to swaddle her for a sleep and see if that helps?

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

but if you put her in when you're not trying to put her to sleep and she's fine, then maybe not.....

She does tend to be ok when she's in there and it's not sleep time although I haven't tried today.  Could definitely give it a shot and see.  She is ok flat on her back on her mat, etc (and her crib would theoretically be better since it's raised) so I really don't think it's the reflux.  Always possible, though, but I don't know what else we would do about that either!

She's  a bit young still for pu/pd, and it can be bad for refluxers, so I'd just try calming her in the crib.

Hmm. I'd forgotten that about refluxers and I was just in there doing it!    I just feel like I have no other tools.  When I try to settle her in the crib she just screams and screams at the top of her lungs.    It's awful!  Shh/pat has never really worked for her.  I tend to settle her in my arms and then put her down drowsy when she's struggling and stroke her face.  But since yesterday when I put her down even in a dead sleep she is wide awake the second she hits the crib and starts screaming uncontrollably!

Kate, just wondering why you weaned the swaddle??

She was waking up multiple times a night having gotten herself out of it.  We had her in the Miracle Blanket with another blanket around it.  That kept Austin in for months past where we are now!  This girl is super strong.  Plus she's started rolling back to front.  I haven't seen her do it in the swaddle yet but it worries me, yk?

ITs possible she still does need it, would you be willing to swaddle her for a sleep and see if that helps?

I've thought of this too.  But DH and I feel like we had made a lot of headway and if we go back now we'll lose that.  But maybe we need to just do it for our sanity and deal with the NWs and hope she doesn't roll?  I don't know, it makes me nervous...

[*Jo*]

have you tried the "wrap me up" or "ergo cocoon"? Levi hates being swaddled too so we use the wrap me up, it lets him have a bit of movement for his hands but still keeps him feeling snug etc
hmmmm dont know what happened to the last pic but heres a few to show you what we do

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

I don't think I can get that here, Jo.    It kind of looks like the Woombie, which I do have.  Maybe I could try that again.  It was too loose for her when I tried it a couple of months ago but she's a bigger girl now. 

[Erin M]

To calm James in the crib I have to hold his hands down flat onto the mattress with some gentle pressure - for some reason that calms him fairly quickly, otherwise they flail around - that and some shhing or some "it's ok, you're just tired" seem to settle him at most sleep times these days.

[Erin M]

Meant to say, that's been since we weaned the swaddle, otherwise his hands just get too crazy, he doesn't have enough control when OT yet.

[Mama_Mia]

Just a thought here because DS would scream bloody murder like someone was killing him when we would put him in his crib, but he slept great in his baby seat. We found that he HATED the sheet. I had to go buy these other ones, I cant remember what they are made of but they feel more like a towel than a sheet. One day I was trying to figure out the difference between his seat and the crib and just for sake of trying something different, I put a towel in his crib and laid him on it and he slept great, so thats when I made the trip out of town to get different sheets

[deckchariot]

with the Miracle Blanket  - was she getting her arms or her legs out?  We used the Miracle Blanket with Katie but just with her legs swaddled - she liked the pressure around her tummy (it helps with the reflux) and provided a nice transition to just a sleep sack.

you mention that she's fine flat on her back other places, but her crib is raised - I wonder if with the increased mobility if she's finding that uncomfortable?  Katie squirms around so much in her sleep, we had to lower the crib because she was always ending up rolling down the "hill" and smashed at the bottom.

Also, she doesn't like the patting of shh/pat - aggravates the reflux, so we just try shhhhing with our hand firmly on her (her back, since she sleeps on her tummy), and that works much better, so you might want to try that.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Thanks, ladies.  Somehow she had a great night!  Took a bit to get her to bed but DH managed it.  Then she went right back after every feed and was down a total of 13h!   I have no idea why it was so much easier.  Fingers crossed it was a weird blip and things are going to be better from here!

[deb]

If she's able to roll anyway, perhaps tummy sleeping is an option she'd go for now? Give her lots of practice opportunities while she's awake.

Also sounds like developmental stuff going on too if she's got that new skill.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

This is horrible.  I feel like I have no tools at all!  The only thing she wants is to be held or to co-sleep.  Even if I hold her for a half hour and try to put her down, she wakes up and screams bloody murder!!!  I just almost had her down after inching her into the crib and literally holding this weird pose for about 5 min as I slowly crept her into the crib and got my hands out from under her but before I could make it out of the door she was awake and screaming again!  I am so frustrated.  She's totally OT and I just don't know what to do.

Erin, I try holding her arms but she gets totally p*ssed.  She is super angry when she's laying in the crib.  I even had her playing in there today and she was happy as can be but when I try to get her to sleep she's a disaster. 

Deb, I tried tummy sleeping but I got the same ridiculous scream.

Where is my independent sleeper and how do I get her back??  We cannot hold her for every single sleep!!

[tigerlilly905]

((hugs)) Kate. Only catching up to this now. So sorry the last few days were rough, but I'm glad to hear you had a good night.

I would agree on the developmental stuff. Arthurs right there as well. He was doing great with ind. sleep and has seemed to want/need more help lately.  I'm finding Shh/pat to be doing the trick. He used to HATE patting, but now he likes it ... also, when I shh, it has to be right close to his ear. Sometimes I think it's got to be too much, but that's what he likes. If you are keeping her out of the swaddle, have you tried HTTJ as you put her to sleep? It can be tricky to do while you're shh/patting, but it can be effective.

I'm also finding I need to allow more wind down time for Arthur lately. Perhaps she's getting a bit O/S since she's able to stay awake longer (on the good 4hr EASY days..)

Hang in there. I think you're doing the right thing getting her caught up with lower A times for a bit. What I've found with Arthur on an "off" day, is that I need to make sure that 1st nap of the day is nice and long as catch up.  Sometimes it even gets close to a 3hrs nap instead of the usual 2hrs (putting us almost 5 hrs since his last feed.. ) but then his next A time he's back up to 2hrs A time, 2 hrs S and the day goes back to a "normal" 4hr EASY from there, iyswim? I've only done that a few times but it's helped get us caught up when things get wonky.

I know Tummy sleeping isn't working, but have you tried side sleeping? May be easier to shh/pat. It also keeps on arm somewhat pinned, and you can HTTJ with the other free arm if needed.

Thinking of you lots! xo ((hugs))

ETA - I wanted to say as well, pu/pd has only worked up Arthur into a fit. I still feel it can be too o/s at this age, so if you can go a more gentler route, that's what my gut says might work best.  Although, since she's totally OT now you're going to probably have to AP a bit more to get her back on track. When Arthur is an OT disaster, when I finally do get him to sleep I have to hold him (either in my arms or in the crib) for at least 30 mins to keep him asleep through the jolts and to resettle him so he doesn't fully wake and work himself into a fit again. Once I'm past that 30 min, he's usually good - that works for both naps or BT. HtH

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Thanks, Rebecca.  I guess I see the developmental thing but I just have trouble reconciling that with what she's doing.  I almost want to take a video so you all can see.  She literally goes from 0 to 60 (60 being all out screaming, just so, so angry and inconsolable) in about 2-3 seconds.  It's not like, oh she's crying through shh/pat, just keep it up or HTTJ and she'll get through it.  I totally know that cry and we've done that.  I mean, maybe some people try to shh/pat through the cry I'm getting but I just know when she starts that she's not going to settle in the crib. Ever. She is all out screaming, gasping for breath screaming.  The only thing I can do is to pick her up and start over and hope and pray that one time when I lay her down I can do it slowly and carefully enough that she won't wake up. 

I held her for 50 min the other night and she still woke and screamed and it took me 20 min to get her to sleep the other night.  That's what I did when I got home from work at 12:30 am.  Sweet.

Rebecca, tbh side sleeping worries me since I'd have to put something into the crib with her and that scares me..

I would love to do a long nap to catch her up but I just can't get her to do it!  She had been doing them regularly for me but now it's 45 min after 30-45 min (or longer ) to put her down.  Today after her 45 min nap  fed her and between me and DH we finally got her down for another hour.  But then she wouldn't go down for the next nap and it ended up being 35 min.  It's just total disaster town over here.  Thank god I'm off work for a couple of days.  Not that this is how I want to spend them!

Should I just reswaddle her until I see her actually roll in the swaddle?  Am I being stubborn?